[skills4lou]

I'm not sure you'll accomplish what you intend by adding a grease zerk. The ones I've disassembled had sealed bearings, so even if the grease got all the way in to the bearings, you'd most likely just blow it out the back side before making any difference in the bearing. I'd be happy to be wrong though.

 

[rallison203]

I'm not sure you'll accomplish what you intend by adding a grease zerk. The ones I've disassembled had sealed bearings, so even if the grease got all the way in to the bearings, you'd most likely just blow it out the back side before making any difference in the bearing. I'd be happy to be wrong though.

Thanks Lou, exactly what I needed to know.

 

[rallison203]

I started this post with a question whether an H27a from an 04 XL7 will swap into my 02 Tracker V6 using the 2.7's original original cam position sensor (CPS).

I'm finally putting my engine together, so it's decision time.

Lou, you said several months ago that the reluctor ring on the 2.7 CPS will interchange with the 2.5.

Despite this, my research still tells me the two CPS units are not interchangeable. Today I found this post:

Engine conversion and other questions

Hi all, I have a 2000-model Australian-spec GV (SQ625 with, of course, the H25A V6/5-speed manual trans.) I've been asking around and no-one seems to be able to give a definitive answer on a couple of questions... Firstly, does anyone make an off-the-shelf extractor exhaust to suit the H25A...

www.suzuki-forums.com

At post #17, the OP says the car wouldn't run until he swapped in the CPS from the 2.5L. This is consistent with every post I can find on this subject.

I'm going with the 2.5L CPS on the H27a. Unfortunately this means I'll have to adjust timing.

I've read the FSM for both Suzuki and Chevrolet. I've also read posts on this forum describing the timing adjustment procedure both with- and without scan tool.

My question is this. If I install the CPS from the 2.5L into the H27a, then - assuming it will start - can I just set timing with a timing light?

I don't have the scan tool, and I don't want to burn up my ECU by jumping the wrong pins.

The only adjustment for the CPS (2.5 or 2.7, with or without scan tool) is to loosen the torx screw and rotate the CPS a few degrees. Can I simply find the right position for this adjustment using a simple timing light?

Thanks for any input.

 

[L84sky]

can I just set timing with a timing light?

As far as I know (and I could be very wrong on this) the later model cars did not include the under-hood diagnostic plug where you could jumper the timing at 5°. I believe you will have to borrow a Suzuki specific scanner to set the timing. I have read of unsuccessful attempts to place a jumper at the PCM connectors. Hopefully other readers can offer personal experience. All I know for certain is that my 2001 Tracker does not have the under-hood plug.

 

[2013GV]

You need a scan tool to freeze the base timing to then be able to set it at 5 degrees using a timing light

 

[skills4lou]

So, let's clear something up: The CRANK position sensor (sometimes abbreviated CKP) is not used for timing. If you are switching out the reluctor ring on the crankshaft, it should have no bearing on your timing.
The CAMSHAFT position sensor (Sometimes abbreviated CMP) IS used for base timing adjustment. It is driven off the back of bank 1 exhaust cam. It's entirely possible I misunderstood your question, but let's begin with the assumption that you are talking about changing the sensor on #1 head, near the firewall.
Start with does your car have the under hood connector for jumpering pins? If not, then do you know anyone with a Tech2? If you have the connector, then use the FSM to jumper and you'll be fine. If no connector, and you have access to a Tech2, then go that route. If none of those pan out for you (which is the situation I'm in) then set it where you find witness marks from previous, then adjust by ear/feel a few times and you'll get it close. It helps if you've set timing on old distributor ignitions and can tune by hearing how the engine runs.
(now I'll go back and see if my previous post makes me look like an ignoramus... )

 

[aquanaut20]

If you cannot get a Tech2, the Launch X431 MiniPro has the capability..

 

[aquanaut20]

Baring the afore mentioned, an in cylinder pressure transducer and a scope will do you well..

 

[rallison203]

All I know for certain is that my 2001 Tracker does not have the under-hood plug.

That's good to know, thanks. I have a 2001 Tracker LT as my driver. I've never seen this port, and I couldn't imagine where it could have been.

Still, I don't need a scan tool to twist the sensor. What's wrong with trial and error??

 

[aquanaut20]

Still, I don't need a scan tool to twist the sensor. What's wrong with trial and error??

That may have been OK in the OLD days, but these newer vehicles have computers that need to be satisfied..

 

[skills4lou]

The computer makes it calculations with the assumption that 'base timing' is set correctly. In order for everything to be in spec, the best option is to time it per the FSM. No doubt about it, that's the proper way to go.

Having said that...the computer is capable of adding or subtracting many degrees of timing to match load/conditions. The problem with trial/error old school method is that the computer is adjusting things on the fly. So, without being able to lock the timing electronically (FSM method, either the port under the hood or scan tool) any adjustments you make using a timing light won't really give you any useful information/adjustments. Now...timing is a fiddly thing. If you are 2degrees off, you'll probably never know the difference. Make that 10 degrees and you'll start noticing. Using the witness marks will get you close enough start and run. Then you can move the sensor one direction a bit...see how it runs. Move a little more....any better? If yes, go a little more. If no, then you have a boundary. Now move back the other way a little, keep going until you get to a boundary. Once you have those, go back to the middle. Poof, you now have timing good enough. Pretty much the same method one would use to adjust a carburetor.
FOR THE NAYSAYERS: Yes, this is not the approved method. You are correct, this won't result in perfect timing. Apply this method at your own risk, lawyers and legal mumbo jumbo yada yada. Engines will blow up, it'll probably catch fire and burn to the ground so no one should follow my advice.This is only working on 4 of my personal vehicles, so there is absolutely no evidence that this works at all!!

 

[Max]

I'm with you!
I've enough experience to find the timing sweet spot between off-performance, advanced pinging feedback, and ease of start, to dial in the appropriate tuning.

Heck! With conventional distributor systems I treat them the same way. Start w/the factory spec and then tweak for the best performance, typically slightly more advance. Fuel quality, terrain and driving style factor in as well. Works for me.

 

[rallison203]

Thanks all. Please bear with me.

Here's the Chevy Tracker service manual vol. 2, p. 6-1700. This explains adjustments to engine timing:

"7. TURN ON Fixed Spark Mode with the scan tool"
* * *
"10 . If the timing marks are not correctly aligned, adjust the ignition timing as follows:"
* * *

The instructions then say to simply loosen the two torx bolts, twist the sensor as appropriate to advance or retard initial timing, confirm the tool shows 5 degrees, then tighten the bolts and check for 5 degrees again with a timing light. If initial timing is correct, then turn off Fixed Spark Mode. That's it. There are no other manual adjustments.

What am I missing here? Does fixed spark mode save data to the computer?

I'm trying to understand the concept. Thank you again.

 

[L84sky]

I don't have the experience to set the timing by ear so I bought a Tech 2 (clone). On this page of the scanner I select "Spark 5°" then choose "Fixed." With the PCM timing locked at 5° I use a timing light to adjust the CMP until the notch on the crank pulley is even with the 5° timing mark on the front engine cover. When done I select "Normal."

 

[2013GV]

Thanks all. Please bear with me.

Here's the Chevy Tracker service manual vol. 2, p. 6-1700. This explains adjustments to engine timing:

"7. TURN ON Fixed Spark Mode with the scan tool"
* * *
"10 . If the timing marks are not correctly aligned, adjust the ignition timing as follows:"
* * *

The instructions then say to simply loosen the two torx bolts, twist the sensor as appropriate to advance or retard initial timing, confirm the tool shows 5 degrees, then tighten the bolts and check for 5 degrees again with a timing light. If initial timing is correct, then turn off Fixed Spark Mode. That's it. There are no other manual adjustments.

What am I missing here? Does fixed spark mode save data to the computer?

I'm trying to understand the concept. Thank you again. View attachment 106217 View attachment 106217

Fixed spark sets the ecm to provide 0 degrees adjustment which then allows you to set the timing to the required 5 degrees. If you don't do that, the ecm will be advancing or retarding the spark for optimum running according to its internal algorithms.
These algorithms are based on the premise the base timing is correct. If its not then the timing advancing or retarding will be out of spec and performance will suffer at best, significant engine damage is possible at worst.

 

[skills4lou]

Where did you find the clone Tech 2? I wouldn’t mind owning one, just haven’t needed one enough to pay full price.

 

[L84sky]

I bought mine directly from China.

AliExpress

You get to choose one module. I picked the GM module. You might want the Suzuki module. Or pay a little extra and get both.

 

[rallison203]

Fixed spark sets the ecm to provide 0 degrees adjustment which then allows you to set the timing to the required 5 degrees. If you don't do that, the ecm will be advancing or retarding the spark for optimum running according to its internal algorithms.
These algorithms are based on the premise the base timing is correct. If its not then the timing advancing or retarding will be out of spec and performance will suffer at best, significant engine damage is possible at worst.

Thanks. Now I get it.

 

[rallison203]

I took a bit of a detour from electronic ignition systems for the past 10 months.

 

[rallison203]

The dead 2.5L Tracker engine is on the hoist. No timing on the entire

right bank.

Took off the cover. Interestingly, the #1 tensioner didn't fail. I did find that the head of the R bank camshaft gear bolt had sheared off. It was wedged in the #2 chain. I also found a lot of broken plastic.