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BTW, Great looking shop!!!

Don

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Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
Following this post as I'm considering doing this exact swap. Please post all you find out rallison203. I have a 2003 2.7L cornered with under 100,000 miles for a decent price. Thanks!!!
Here's a link to the auszookers website discussion of a 2.5 to 2.7 engine swap (manual trans):


And here are his findings:

Ok: it's all in and running correctly. Some lessons learned for anyone who might stumble across this thread (these apply to fitting the 2003 manual H27A motor from an XL7 to the pre-facelift 2000/2001 manual GV model):
You can use the exhaust, headers etc from the XL7, although you'll need to shorten both the pre-diff and post-diff sections of the exhaust and fabricate new mounts. Alternatively you could use the original, but it's very restrictive in comparison.
You can use the full injection, intake manifold etc from the original H25A GV, but you'll need to swap the CAS (the connector plugs in, but doesn't run).
The H27A 02 sensors, water temp sensor, oil pressure switch are compatible with the H25A ECU/dash etc
Using the H27A ECU etc will require substantial rewiring
The engine mounts which bolt to the block are similar, but not the same. Use your original H25A ones
The AC compressor from the original can be retained, swapping the bracket on the block
The clutch fan is compatible either way
The flywheel, clutch etc seems like it can be retained from the XL7. The clutch is a bigger diameter, and the clutch pedal effort seems to have increased a fair bit (although the XL7 could have had a HD clutch)
The little rock/dust cover which goes behind the flywheel on the gearbox is very similar, but NOT the same. Very frustrating trying to fit the wrong one.
The PS pump, PS rack etc can be swapped right in (the rack was in better condition than mine)
The front diff is directly compatible and has a steel casing
The CV shafts look compatible, but I haven't tried. As do the hubs, uprights, brakes, wheels etc.
On the H25A there's a plastic valve on the passenger side valve cover, at the breather hose. The H27A has a straight barb, and I think this may lead to oil burning through blowby....


The 2nd bullet says "you'll need to swap the CAS (the connector plugs in but doesn't run)." I assume the CAS is cam angle sensor aka the cam position sensor. The service manual calls it the CMP sensor.

The instructions for adjusting the CMP sensor on the H27a can be found in the "Ignition Timing Check and Adjustment" section of the supplemental manual mentioned by Max, at page 6F2-6.

Update: I registered on that forum and posted my questions about the CMP sensor. We'll see if I get a response.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Does anyone know offhand whether the fuel injectors on a 2004 XL-7 2.7L are the same output as those in a Tracker or GV 2.5L?

Am I gonna starve the 2.7 by using 2.5 injectors?
 

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RockAuto states different part numbers for each application. :unsure:


 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Thanks. I was outside, cleaning, hands full of grease. I'll take a look.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 · (Edited)
Well yes, interesting, there are two different part numbers and the injectors do not look alike.

The OEM and alternate part numbers are all there in Max's post. The flow rate for the 2.5 is apparently 416.7cc/min. Unfortunately however I haven't been able to determine the flow rate for the 2.7L no matter which part number I search under.

No matter. I've decided to go with the 2.5 injectors per the Zuk site quoted above. I've got plenty of them. The 2.7 injectors look different too, so I'm going to assume they may have different spacers and possibly even different pintles and apertures for the fuel rail. That means possibly having to use the XL7 intake and that violates the prime directive. Not going there.

They say your injector flow rate is also affected by fuel pressure so maybe I'll research the 2.5 v 2.7 fuel pressure regulators. Those look to be interchangeable.

Edit: my research says the fuel pressure regulators are interchangeable as between the 2.5 and the 2.7. So a swap wouldn't increase my fuel delivery. If anybody learns the flow rate for the XL7 injectors, I'd be interested to know that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
BTW, Great looking shop!!!

Don
Thanks Don, didn't mean to ignore you. Working outdoors has it's advantages and disadvantages. But our weather allows us to do it pretty much year round, thankfully.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Here's something I ran across twice that some might find helpful.

I'm in the middle of pulling a 2.5L engine. Unlike some folks, I like to pull the exhaust manifolds. Makes it a lot easier for me to reach other stuff like the bell housing bolts.

However. On the left side there's a nut / stud on the lower flange of the manifold that you can't reach with a socket extension. One of three. It's the one closest to the engine. It SEEMS like the socket is fully shouldered on the nut, but it isn't. The crossover pipe is in the way. Twice I've stripped this nut and twice it's taken me the rest of the day to remove it. You can't get any leverage on it with a wrench.

Next time I would pull the crossover pipe.
 

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Weird. I installed my manifolds after the engine was in place, and the three lower studs where not nearly as hard to get to as some other vehicles I've worked on. I guess I got lucky!
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Weird. I installed my manifolds after the engine was in place, and the three lower studs where not nearly as hard to get to as some other vehicles I've worked on. I guess I got lucky!
Did you pull the manifolds that were in the previous engine? Those lower 3 nuts are all rusted and it gets worse from there. Now that you mention it, I remember shouldering that same nut when reinstalling it, too!! So maybe you did get lucky.
 

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The V6 was already removed when I got Bazuki, so I can't say on remove of that one. The 2 J20A's that I removed I had no troubles with the nuts. Have you used PB B'laster on 'em? Or heat 'em up and melt wax onto the threads? All I used is the PB, but wax works well on exhaust components too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
All I used is the PB, but wax works well on exhaust components too.
Yes I even used wax. That may have helped but it finally came off with an extractor socket and a whole lot of carving with a dremel tool.

It turns out that manifold was cracked just behind the rear exhaust port, so I had it welded yesterday. From the receipts I got with the car, the passenger side had been replaced too - cracked, like the other one.

Here's my theory. From the paint on the car I can tell it was once in a collision on the driver's side rear. I think the exhaust was pushed forward in the accident and cracked at the manifolds. Ever hear of that?

I had a spare manifold from my earlier project so they're all cleaned up and ready for reinstallation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Please post all you find out rallison203.
Here's another tidbit.

The gasket set I bought online two years ago for my 01 Tracker 2.5L project is "not compatible" with the 2004 XL-7 2.7L engine.

I checked the same product against several other 2.5L Trackers and GVs, all compatible. I don't know which particular gasket isn't compatible because, of the ones I've removed from both engines, they look identical to me.

Regardless of that, I plan on ordering the XL-7 kit for my 2.7L.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Ok this is more than 2 questions.

I've attached a photo of the lower oil pan on my XL-7 engine. There's some kind of plug in the bottom. Anyone familiar with the purpose of this? It doesn't look like a repair because there's no wrinkled metal or bashed paint around it. It's not a drain. Maybe a vent?
 

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It looks more like a boss / attachment point to fasten something external to the pan. :unsure:

Not sure what nor why though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
It looks more like a boss / attachment point to fasten something external to the pan. :unsure:

Not sure what nor why though.
It must be a repair. Maybe there was a crack or something. I can use my other oil pan; I was just wondering if there was some fancy venting or something in the h27a that I hadn't heard of before.

The boss idea sounds right but I can't imagine Suzuki would have hung something lower than the oil pan.
 

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If put a 03 grand vitara 2.5 into a 04 xl7 everythang was on different sides the only thang is the cam shaft postion sensor ican not seem to find it on the o3 grand vitara to plug on to the 04 harness any ideas
 

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02 it's on the driver side, rear.

Don
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
ican not seem to find it on the o3 grand vitara to plug on to the 04 harness any ideas
Related question. Does your 04 harness have a knock sensor connector, and if so, how did you deal with that?
 
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