[rallison203]

New project, 2002 Chevy Tracker ZR2, 2.5L with no timing on the right (#1?) side. I'm pulling the engine and swapping in a 2.7L engine from a wrecked but running 2004 Suz XL-7. The 2.7 is basically a bored out 2.5 but with a couple of important differences.

There's a thread posted on an Aussie Zuk forum from the mid-2010s that comes very close to my situation. The poster said this is the "easiest swap ever". You swap in the 2.7 short block but use your Tracker's 2.5 ECU and all peripherals (except you can use the XL-7 alternator). Two exceptions however: the cam position sensor and the knock sensor apparently do not interchange.

There's also a "2.7 swap" link in the FAQ thread in this forum, but i didn't see where it answered my questions:

First question, kind of a simple one. Can I just cut the 2.7's knock sensor wires and leave it dead in place when I drop it into my Tracker? I'll confirm when I pull the old engine, but I don't think the 2.5 Trackers in the USA used a knock sensor. So I figure I can just cut the 2.7's knock sensor wires and leave the sensor or a plug in place. Right?

Second question. Do I use the 2.7 or the 2.5 cam position sensor? Also I understand that some recalibration may be necessary if you remove or replace them. And there's a torx screw on the side of the CPS that appears to be a set screw of some sort. So I use that screw for the recalibration or ?

Thanks for any help.

 

[fordem]

Having no personal experience, I can't answer your questions, but, I want to suggest that you get a 2.7 from a year close to 2002, rather than a newer one - the 2.7s from 2006 onwards have differences.

Looking at the parts manuals for the 02 model year, I see no knock sensor on the 2.5, it is there on the 2.7, just leave it unplugged, the 2.7 uses a different cam position sensor, I would suggest using the 2.5, provided that it visually matches with the 2.7 one as far as mounting & interfacing with the cam shaft - the torx bolt allows adjustment and can be used as a reference.

A friend of mine is actually looking for a 2.7 to do this swap, but in his case, the motor has to be sourced in the US and then shipped out, so he has some logistic challenges to deal with - my involvement will come once the motor is here.

 

[Max]

I want to suggest that you get a 2.7 from a year close to 2002, rather than a newer one - the 2.7s from 2006 onwards have differences.

The last 'stay away from' rendition of the 2.7 was peculuiar to the GV. The XL used the new 3.6L starting in 2006.

Valve inspection requirements on the redesigned for...

So I'm at the dealer talking to one of the mechanics there. He asks me if I heard about the valve inspection that the new GV's have to have. The first one is due around 23K miles. I asked him how much that service goes for and he says about $1200. Is he out of his mind? I checked the manual and...

www.suzuki-forums.com

The CPS addjustment is via two Torx bolts, one of which is shown here...


I don't think that the Knock Sensor is a issue. IF the ECU is looking for it you could plug it in but isolate the sensory function of it so as not to cause a problem I guess.

 

[rallison203]

Having no personal experience, I can't answer your questions, but, I want to suggest that you get a 2.7 from a year close to 2002, rather than a newer one - the 2.7s from 2006 onwards have differences.

Yes I already sourced the 2.7 from an 04 XL-7. I triple checked that it wasn't from the later generation.

the 2.7 uses a different cam position sensor, I would suggest using the 2.5, provided that it visually matches with the 2.7 one as far as mounting & interfacing with the cam shaft

Yes that was my thinking as well. The cam position sensors on all of my 2.5 engines look like the photo in Max's post #3. Black cover on the rear face of the sensor.

The 2.7 however has a cam sensor with a brass-colored cover. I haven't yet cross checked the part numbers or checked whether the connectors are different, but the Aussie post I mentioned specifically says something about the sensors not being interchangeable. I just didn't understand his description.

The CPS addjustment is via two Torx bolts, one of which is shown here...

I'm going to search the FAQ thread before I ask any more questions about the CPS adjustment. Plus I may have to crack open the service manual. I remember there was some trick to having the sensor "learn" the cam position after installation. I have no idea how or what to adjust.

I don't think that the Knock Sensor is a issue. IF the ECU is looking for it you could plug it in but isolate the sensory function of it so as not to cause a problem I guess.

Right, I think the point is my ZR2 doesn't have a connector for a knock sensor. So there's no place to plug it in. Plus I don't know how the ECU could be looking for a signal from a sensor it doesn't have, so I'm going to assume I can just leave the knock sensor alone. I'll probably cut off the wire to avoid confusion; there are enough wires back there.

 

[rallison203]

I'm just starting to tear this one down. I've about got the old one out.

 

[Max]

Yeah. The later 2004, 2.7L CPS is certainly different in design and maybe function.

 

[Max]

See the supplemental H27 (2.7L) Service Manual to the Mediafire Tech Pubs list accessed via the top FAQ thread. It shows the later style CPS and has ignition timing particulars as well.

 

[rallison203]

Thanks - I'll do that.

See the supplemental H27 (2.7L) Service Manual to the Mediafire Tech Pubs list accessed via the top FAQ thread. It shows the later style CPS and has ignition timing particulars as well.

 

[rallison203]

Looking at the parts manuals for the 02 model year, I see no knock sensor on the 2.5, it is there on the 2.7, just leave it unplugged, ...

Just double-checking that a 2002 Chevy Tracker H25a doesn't have a knock sensor. So I don't throw a code on my 2002 ECU after it's all reassembled.

I used some Teflon tape and a short 14mm bolt to replace the knock sensor on the donor H27a engine.

 

[Shrimpy]

Following this post as I'm considering doing this exact swap. Please post all you find out rallison203. I have a 2003 2.7L cornered with under 100,000 miles for a decent price. Thanks!!!

 

[rallison203]

Following this post as I'm considering doing this exact swap. Please post all you find out rallison203. I have a 2003 2.7L cornered with under 100,000 miles for a decent price. Thanks!!!

Will do. I've dialed back my postings on this forum generally but if I find anything important I'll write it up. Taking it slow; right now I'm doing some basic cleaning and making my parts list. So far no surprises except for the knock sensor and the CPS. I don't expect to be finished for a few months so don't wait for me, when deciding whether to buy your engine.

I paid $500 for the ZR2 (with all skid plates) and another $400 for the engine.

I saw something recently on this forum about the screw-in type vs the push-in type of PCV valve. My worn-out H25a has the push in type while my donor H27a has the "screw in" type. One was hard to find; I'm not sure about the other.

Anybody remember this? Can't find the thread and I'd like to use the valve cover which uses the PCV valve that's easier to find.

 

[Shrimpy]

If I remember correctly, the screw in's were for a certain VIN number. My VIN actually showed I should have had a screw in (Max posted the VIN's, but that was a LONG time ago), but mine had a push in, Green and Purple. Rock Auto shows both available for my year model (2003) for the 2.5 and 2.7. I think the most important issue would be to use the PCV that matches your year model vehicle that the engine is going into. No matter the donor engine year (2.7L 2001-2006) if possible, use the PCV Valve from the Truck's build year. That's the way I will be doing it.

I have been scouring the net looking at pictures of Cam Position Sensors for both the 2.5L and the 2.7L. Greatest obvious difference I have seen is that the 2.7L CPS is secured by one bolt or screw, and the 2.5L by two. Also, as Max posted above, there is a slight size difference. Both use 4 pin connectors, and the part that goes into the valve cover looks identical on both. The CPS generates pulses that are reflected (for lack of a better word) off of a small oval thin piece of metal with notches cut in it, often called a reluctor ring That ring is bolted to the cam. In my stupor while surfing the net, came across a site that uses the 2.5L and 2.7L engines in paragliders. Basically the rings are exactly the same They have found some place in Europe that will make a reluctor ring to your specification, or either they already have one that "enhances" the engines performance curve for paraglide use.

I also came across someone who had an issue getting the MAF's to work right without throwing a code. The gentleman didn't really follow up with what he did, other than he used the 2.7L intake horn air box, and other intake components to get things working. If possible, i would try to secure the ENTIRE 2.7L intake assembly Rallison. Will keep you posted if I run across anything else. Good Luck!!!

 

[Max]

H25 / H27 V-6: Blue Exhaust Smoke. Valve Cover Baffle...

This is for v6 (H25A) engines only as far as I know. Made a trip to the dealer this afternoon to see if the PCV valve in these engines has any unique specifications. My truck is a 03 Chevy Tracker. Based on my VIN #, GM parts says that I should have a SCREW in PCV valve :eek:. I told the...

www.suzuki-forums.com

 

[rallison203]

If possible, i would try to secure the ENTIRE 2.7L intake assembly Rallison.

That's interesting - on the intake, fuel rail - I have read the opposite. From the Aussie site I mentioned a while back. I'll double-check but I think he said to use the entire 2.5 intake / TB assembly including fuel rails.

Re the CPS I haven't looked into this yet. I'm sure there will be issues. I'll report back as I dig into it.

 

[rallison203]

H25 / H27 V-6: Blue Exhaust Smoke. Valve Cover Baffle...

This is for v6 (H25A) engines only as far as I know. Made a trip to the dealer this afternoon to see if the PCV valve in these engines has any unique specifications. My truck is a 03 Chevy Tracker. Based on my VIN #, GM parts says that I should have a SCREW in PCV valve :eek:. I told the...

www.suzuki-forums.com

Thanks Max. I think I'm going to go with the 2.5 valve covers. I'm gonna try to convince the Tracker's ecu into thinking it's running a 2.5 engine so I'll use as many Tracker parts as I can. Which is basically what the guy recommended for this swap on the Aussie site.

Edit: well actually, he didn't say that, specifically, about the pcv valve. I briefly read the 2013 post about VINs and PCV valves in the link and I may rethink this.

 

[rallison203]

Basically the rings are exactly the same

Shrimpy are you saying that you read that the CPS reluctor ring for the 2.5 is the same as the one in the 2.7?

If so, that's good news. I have the complete wiring harness for the 2.7, so connectors are not an issue, if it comes to that.

 

[Shrimpy]

Hey Rallison, I could very well be mistaken about which air intake to use. I just wanted to make sure you covered all your bases, and if available, grab the air box, as much of the MAF wiring as possible, and the tube up to where it connects to the throttle body.

I have also read that the intake manifold and injectors on the engines interchange, 2.5 fits 2.7 and visa versa. While there are different part numbers listed for injectors between the two engines, the thread I read said that the 2.5 ECM worked just fine in handling the 2.7 injectors without throwing any codes related to fuel injectors.

On the reluctor ring, yes they are both the same for 2.5 and 2.7L, but there were aftermarket ones available that allowed the engines to work at a more efficient rpm range for the paragliders (I have no idea where that "range" is). They also talked about a guy in europe who can custom make one to your specifications.

Thanks for the thread from the dead Max!!!

 

[rallison203]

Hey Rallison, I could very well be mistaken about which air intake to use. I just wanted to make sure you covered all your bases, and if available, grab the air box, as much of the MAF wiring as possible, and the tube up to where it connects to the throttle body.

I have also read that the intake manifold and injectors on the engines interchange, 2.5 fits 2.7 and visa versa. While there are different part numbers listed for injectors between the two engines, the thread I read said that the 2.5 ECM worked just fine in handling the 2.7 injectors without throwing any codes related to fuel injectors.

On the reluctor ring, yes they are both the same for 2.5 and 2.7L, but there were aftermarket ones available that allowed the engines to work at a more efficient rpm range for the paragliders (I have no idea where that "range" is). They also talked about a guy in europe who can custom make one to your specifications.

Thanks for the thread from the dead Max!!!

Good to know about the injectors. I was wondering about that. Also I read somewhere that the 2.5 exhaust may be a little restrictive for the 2.7. The previous owner rammed the honeycomb out of the lower cat so I'll need to source some exhaust parts as well. If I can get the darn thing running right I'm considering some kind of dual SS magnaflow setup. Just for kicks.

 

[rallison203]

Re the airbox - I don't have access to any more xl-7 parts than what came with the deal. I bought it from a guy who pulled it from a wrecked vehicle, I don't know where or when. If I need more I'll have to visit another junkyard. But I'm not anticipating that. I expect to be able to use most of the 2.5 upper end.

BTW - here's something interesting. While searching my prior orders on amazon I learned that my 2.5L timing kit is "not compatible" with an 04 XL-7. And I don't know why. I thought that was interesting. More on this as I look into it.

 

[fordem]

BTW - here's something interesting. While searching my prior orders on amazon I learned that my 2.5L timing kit is "not compatible" with an 04 XL-7. And I don't know why. I thought that was interesting. More on this as I look into it.

Find one of the parts websites that will let you search the part numbers - I took a quick look - chain part numbers are the same, adjuster/tensioner part numbers are the same - I didn't have enough on an interest to cross-reference every one of the various guides & sprockets - but as far as I know, they interchange.