I believe that the most important issue in keeping the tensioners live a long and happy is 3000 mile oil changes with synethic oil. I''ll bet that its not an issue with if you do these 2 small things..

 

I hope your right! I suppose every car has its archiles heel, and this is the vitara's.

 

Dick,

There have been some major design changes in the tensioners since the 1st design in the 1999 GV.

This includes a change to increasing the number of teeth in the ratchet as well as an increase in the oil passage diameter. The new tensioners have proven to be very reliable, failures on properly maintained vehicles is very rare.

As I have stated in previous posts, the GV motor is built too much tighter tolerances then your average motor. Bearing clearances are in 10 thousandths of an inch (0.0009”), the tensioners are built to the same tight specs. The engine requires 5W30 oil, and it must be kept clean.

The Timing Chain Adjusters are hydraulically controlled by engine oil pressure.
Varnish and Sludge build up, caused by infrequent Oil and Filter changes, reduces the amount of oil pressure and volume available to the Adjusters (Chains, Sprockets, Tensioners, and Guides), decreasing their effectiveness.

In Canada, Suzuki follows the severe maintenance schedule, calling for an oil change every 5000km’s (3000 miles). I’d recommend you do the same for maximum engine life.

Cheers,

Tim

BTW,

The 2.0 is the 4 cylinder engine and it uses a different design for the tensioner. It is normal for the engine to make a rattle sound on start up until it has oil pressure. The main tensioner is not ratcheted like the V6, so the chain will rattle until the engine oil pressure can take up the slack.

 

Tim,

I am gathering that the v6 was only available from 1999 in the usa and canada (and probably other places). I have a 1995 vitara which is a v6 2.0litre (i can count - i promise) as an Australian delivery. There is very little information available on the 2.0l v6 on the net, but it really is identical in configuration and design to the 2.5l, just a smaller capacity.

If you are interested in the v6 models we have here haved a look here:
Red Book AU : Your site for New and Used vehicle prices

From what I am led to believe the same component has been used since then, but I am hoping they have fixed the design as I am putting in a replacement tensioner at the moment.

Cheers,

Richard

 

Gotta ask Tim: Is there a way to clean the engine oil passages if you have a used vehicle and no knowledge of past maintenance? Oil additive, etc.? My 99 GV is a great little runner. It has a slight ticking sound at startup that is most noticeable at idle (700-800 rpm), bump the idle to 1000 and it disappears. I got the vehicle with 70K on it and it now sits at 108K give or take a few miles. Any particular grade of 5W30 that you recommend? Dino-based or synthetic?

 

Gday,

What I was told by the Suzuki dealer was to run an oil flush in the motor for a few days before each service to break down the "deposits" in the oil. They have actually had quite a bit of success apparently in reducing the cam chain noise by doing this probably by disolving deposits that are hampering the tensioner(s).

From my understanding it is quite normal to get a few seconds of failry loud "rattle" when you start the motor, but I am actually guessing that this is from the number 2 tensioner because it is purely a hydraulic activated tensioner and doesnt have a ratchet mechanism like the number one and number three tensioner.

When you look what this tensioner does without the engine running, it doesnt have enough spring to overcome the rotation of the cams due to pressure of the valve springs, so the chain is quite slack.

Thats my theory, if only we could see what was happening in there when the motor was running! Says a lot for a good old fashioned spring tensioner doesnt it?

 

Gday,
What I was told by the Suzuki dealer was to run an oil flush in the motor for a few days before each service to break down the "deposits" in the oil. They have actually had quite a bit of success apparently in reducing the cam chain noise by doing this probably by disolving deposits that are hampering the tensioner(s).
From my understanding it is quite normal to get a few seconds of failry loud "rattle" when you start the motor, but I am actually guessing that this is from the number 2 tensioner because it is purely a hydraulic activated tensioner and doesnt have a ratchet mechanism like the number one and number three tensioner.
When you look what this tensioner does without the engine running, it doesnt have enough spring to overcome the rotation of the cams due to pressure of the valve springs, so the chain is quite slack.
Thats my theory, if only we could see what was happening in there when the motor was running! Says a lot for a good old fashioned spring tensioner doesnt it?

I know this thread is quite old now... but i would still like to comment on a few things...
Yes an oil flush is the best thing to do before changing the oil, if you do this regularly, you may notice the oil stays clearer for longer, i noticed it...

While a few seconds of timing chain rattle is considered normal by many, in cold weather, cold starts, timing chain rattle of any kind is your engine telling you something isnt right, i have a 2001 GV, it had 195,000kms when i bought it, and when the weather got cold, yes it had timing chain rattle, quite a bit of it... i started with an engine flush, then switched from a 15W40 Oil, to a 10W40 Semi Synth, it reduced the rattle, but didnt stop it... i was recommended to take it to a very good, local, Suzuki only Mechanic, he took a look at it, and knew what the problem was straight away, it had a cheaper RYCO brand oil filter on it... so i booked it in for a major service and check over... and they put a Genuine Suzuki Oil filter on for me, and the timing chain rattle was gone !

Now, i have had a few arguments with people saying aftermarket oil filters are just as good as genuine, and i am wasting my money on genuine... yes the genuine oil filter is $40AU, $25 more than a cheaper one... but, i found out, that the genuine oil filter has a Non return valve in it, and while the cheaper oil filter are supposed to have them as well, it didnt work well if at all... so, its only genuine Suzuki oil filters for me now !
FYI, my GV has now done 235,000kms, and i still have no timing chain rattle at all, and i take my GV offroad at least once a month, and push it hard...
I have heard that high revs help the timing chain self adjust and tighten, how high, well, high enough that the rev limiter kicks in, but i cannot recommend that in good conscience... lol...

And because i take mine offroad regularly, i change the oil sooner, every 3000kms or 3 months, whichever occurs first...

Apologies for the long rant...

 

hey what about the 2.7L?

 

Hi Dick,

Suzuki was putting the 2.0 V6 in the Sidekick Sport in 1996, but it never made it to North America. I did not look to see where you were located before I posted

It's the same basic design as the 2.5/2.7, but the intake has much smaller diameter ports and runners.

tmcalavy,

You could try running an engine flush through the motor (or run a liter of ATF in the oil for a few days..). The danger of flushing an older engine is if there are lots of sludge deposits is it can break free and plug the oil pick up while you are cruising down the highway.

If you do flush your engine, you might want to do a few oil changes shortly after, to make sure all of the sludge is washed out.

Tim

 

Thanks Tim,

Yea tried that but didnt make any difference. The car has 155,000km on it, so if this if the first tensioner to go I would be happy. The sprockets and chains look spot on, and car uses no oil, nor blows any smoke. After opening up the timing cover the engine looks nice and clean, which goes with the fact that the oil remains clean between services. I just think the tensioner has "crapped its nappy".

 

Oh yea, dont know much about the 2.7 but everything we are talking about with regards to engine care certainly applies. It applies to any car really.

I wouldnt mind betting the tensioner is the same part. I do know that the part number of the no1 tensioner for my 2.0l is the same number as for the 2.5l

 

Ill bet your correct. Same tensioner for the 2.0, 2.5 and 2.7..

 

The current PN is 12831-85FA7, so it would have started as 85FA0. After about 85FA5, there has been no change in design, it's just been a change in PN to commonize use with other applications.

As we never had the 2.0 V6 in Canada, I can't confirm the PN, but based on the design, it's most likely the same as our 2.5/2.7.

The new design has a much finer ratchet, so it does not have to extend as far between adjustments. The net result is the chain does not have a chance to slap, which is what causes the wear and stretching.

Cheers,

Tim

 

Yea Tim, thats the part number of the tensioner I have here. Unfortunately I have just realised that instead of having 4 bolts going up through the oil pan into the timing cover, there is two bolts in the centre, and the two on the outside are studs coming out of the timing cover through the pan!!!!

Arrrgghhhhhh. TIme to take the sump off.

Now I am used to working on Alfa Romeo's which if you ever have worked on can be a real bastard, but I reckon the guys that designed the alfa must have helped the suzuki designers now!

 

Well I did the engine/oil flush with some stuff in a blue can, remember the old oil cans that required a church key?, that smelled suspiciously like acetone. Read the label and that's what it was, mostly, with some petroleum distillates thrown in. Think I'll try the ATF next time. I'll run it for a day or two, flush out the oil again and then try some genu-wine synthetic or synthetic blend. Any recommendations on that? My little 99 GV has a little over 106K on it.

 

Dick,

Don't pull the oil pan.. Just double nut the studs and you can back them right out.

The same technique has been used since the Samurai to remove the oil pump

Cheers,

Tim

 

Thanks for the suggestion Tim. Before I started taking the pan off I tried locking two nuts onto it but no luck. THey were no match for a pair of vice grips though.

The new no1 tensioner is the same in function, but totally different in design and geometry. The ratchets are the same spacing, but the new tensioner extends about 3-4mm further than the old one.

I sure hope this sucker fixes my rattle otherwise tools will be thrown ;-)


Cheers.

For those interested, have a look .....

 

Dick,

Its good to see someone else having as much fun with thier tensioner. I did my daughters a little while back. Here is a link to the thread and I put a little how-to together (its in my signature spot).

Joel
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/1g-2001-2006-xl-7/15365-infamous-1-timing-chain-adjuster.html

 

Thanks milbums,

Yes I did see your excellent description of your tensioner repair. I wouldn't so much call it "fun" but more like "character building"!

The left hand rocker cover on mine was leaking at the back so had to take off the throttle body and inlet manifold to replace the seals. Pretty easy stuff luckily.

Did you find the old tensioner was a lot different to the new one you put in? Mine is out of a 2l 1995 motor so there is quite a bit of time between when that was designed and the current tensioner which fits all the suzuki v6's ( but not sure if it fits the latest grand vitara).

 

(or run a liter of ATF in the oil for a few days..).

does this really work? I was planning to run a can of Sea-Foam through when I reach 60K miles but I have some extra qts of ATF laying around

 

Thanks All,

My Suzuki is now a lot quieter and oil leak free! I think I will reward it with a good old thrash in the bush now to give it a mud bath.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

 

Dick,

Congratulations on finishing the job. It's quite rewarding completing something like this. Have fun with the Zuk.

Joel

 

Tim/Dick,
My son recently purchased a 2001 Chevy Tracker with the 2.0, 16 valve engine. We noticed the chain slop noise when it was cold for a short time, maybe 2-5 seconds this summer but now that it is winter the noise is lasting close to a minute. It gradualy goes away just like the oil pressure is getting to the tensioner like you describe. I was all set to tear this apart and replace the timing chains and tensioners but after reading this post am thinking I should look at some oil additives or do a oil engine flush...or since the engine has 125,000 miles on it and I don't know the maintenance history should I just replace the timing chains, tensioners, gears anyway?
Thanks,
Ed

 

You are responding to a five year old post, but just the same...

I don't know the maintenance history should I

Given that info, the first thing I'd do is use the recommended 5W-30 oil, do an initial and a couple of 3-4K changes after that.

Take a wait and see approach to a KNOWN, correct and clean oil schedule, in other words. The noise will hopefully go away.

 

Yep I agree with Max. Lighter weight oil in colder conditions will help. When I had this problem initially the suzuki dealer gave me a bottle of oil flush and said "add that to the motor and drive it around for a day". I'm not too sure how good it is for the motor driving under load with that added to the oil but anyway I did it. Didn't make much difference.

I'd just do a few changes as normal with a flush and use a lighter oil. I dont think you will ever get rid of the cold start rattle. They all do it.

I've sold my suzuki now and have a pajero (i think in the states its a montero). The suzuki used to go 10 times better off road!

 

In other forums, the product AutoRX has received good reviews in terms of slowly dissolving gels, varnishes and other deposits. Their site looks a bit tacky, but the product's been reviewed by a few tribologists with nothing negative to say. My experience with it comes from a VAG 1.8T engine and I've been happy. And it works best with mineral (e.g., non-synthetic) oils. If my tensioner were starting to clack on startup, this is what I'd use first... In the meantime, I'm sticking to the 3kmi oil & filter changes!!