Milburns,

This is not a job for the average owner to undertake. Unless you are an experienced Tech with the correct tools and shop manual, the chances of something going very wrong are possible.

The flat rate on this job is 8.3 hours and requires the front of the engine to be removed. If you know what you are doing, you can remove the timing cover without having to pull the front diff and remove the oil pan, intake manifold and valve covers.
The engine is an interference fit, so being 1 tooth off on the timing can (will) bend valves.
In my experience, if the tensioner is gone, then the chain, sprockets and guides will also be worn and should be replaced as an assembly.

I would strongly recommend having the dealer do this repair.

In Canada, Suzuki has found that replacing just the tensioner is not effective in the long run. They have revised the bulletin to include the replacement of the chain and sprockets if there is any signs of wear.
When you get the cover off, check how far the tensioner has extended, if it's more then about 4-6 clicks, the chain is stretched and should be replaced.

Idler sprocket 45 N.m
(4.5 kg-m, 32.5 lb-ft)
Timing Chain Tensioner Nut Tightening Torque
27 N.m (2.7 kg-m, 19.5 lb-ft)
Timing Chain Tensioner Adjuster Bolt Tightening Torque
11 N.m (1,1 kg-m, 7,5 lb-ft)
Timing Chain Guide Bolt Tightening Torque
9 N.m (0.9 kg-m, 6.5 lb-ft)
Timing Chain Guide #4 Bolt Tightening Torque
11 N.m (1.1 kg-m, 7.5 lb-ft)
Timing cover bolts
11 N.m (1,1 kg-m, 7,5 lb-ft)
Crank Pulley
150 N.m (15 kg-m, 108.5 lb-ft)
The intake bolts are torqued to 17 lb-ft

Tim

 

I am familiar with doing this type of work. I have built motors since I was a teenager. I was asking for the torque specs on this job and any tricks that may make it easier. I will not pay the dealer 8.3 book hrs. for what some techs are saying takes only 2 to 3 hrs. Also the tensioner just began making noise so it is highly unlikely that the chain and sprockets are wasted. The Suzuki bulletin that is posted on this site states to only change the #1 tensioner. I will inspect the said items and replace as necessary.

 

It's nothing against you at all, I've watched experience 'Zuki mechanics get sidetracked and have to pull the heads to fix the screwup. 3 times in 3 years by guys that do them everyday. I know what I'm doing, Know what it takes on these, but I wouldn't do my own. I let them do it so if it broke, they fixed it.

Good luck.

 

Don't give up...

I've replaced many a timing chain on SB Chevy's and a Ford or two, and belts on Honda's and even the four cam Nissan "Z". Never a Zuki, but I'd do it IF I had the procedure details to back me up on a Zuki.

 

Max,

Thanks for the info. Yes, that is the bulliten I was talking about. I also found this site 1999 V6 Grand Vitara timing chains.

The chain noise sounds like noisy lifters during the first 30 seconds after starting.

 

Thanks for the link! Great pics, even though the article isn't a step-by- step, it certainly provides significant info (a keeper).

 

Milbums,

There are 3 chains on the Suzuki V6, and the timing is not a simple 2:1 ratio between them. You have to get everything correct, or it will bend valves..

If you are able to just do the tensioner, wire the guide to something to keep the chain tight with the tensioner removed, or the chain may jump on the crank sprocket.

Here is a cutaway view of the engine..

http://repairguide.autozone.com/zne...air_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/20/74/64/medium/0996b43f80207464.gif
Cheers,

Tim

 

Tim...are there FOUR chains if you count the oil pump drive chain? I'm studying the pic and I'm getting confused.

She's a little hard to understand (dang cut-aways), although the best pic I've seen yet. Thanks for sharing.

Max

EDIT: I think I've got it. Three chains. I'm trying to mirror image each head / sprocket arrangement in my head. They are TOTALLY different per bank. I looked at Milbums link pics. It's starting to make sense, although an odd config.

 

Including the oil pump drive, there are 4 chains.

BTW

The oil pump chain should NOT be super tight, the tensioner should just put a small amount of tension on it. If it is too tight, it will sing like crazy. It's kind of like your furnace blower, the belt is kept loose to dampen the rattle the blower would make if the belt was tight...

Cheers,

Tim

 

Hi,how do you know when the timing chain is a problem? What things start happening and how do you convince the warranty people that it is the timing chain?Thanks.Peter.

That's a tough call. It's an inherent noise situation that isn't necessarily cause for repair.

Some initial start up noise is permissible according to Suzuki (to allow for engine oil pressure build up and I'd assume some engine heat up as well). After that you'd have to site poor engine performance (timing erratic) and / or show timing chain apparent stretch / wear by performing a static "play" test to determine the amount of slop in the chain while viewing cam rotation verses the crankshaft pulley movement. And from what I gather...it's a 100-200K interval that COULD initiate repairs.

FWIW, other overhead cam engine manufacturers cite similar noise generating issues too. (usually associated with tensioner wear and noise at start up, Nissan for one). Honda and Toyota seemed to have nailed any potential noise issues from what I've experienced.

 

Tim---Thanks for the cutaway. Can you give me torque specs for the intake?

Update--I began teardown yesterday after work. Removed fan, shroud, radiator, p/s pump, intake manifold, valve covers, and harmonic balancer bolt. Took about 2 hours. Daughter has hockey game today so I will begin work again on Fri. All that is left on teardown is to pull harmonic balancer and timing chain cover. I took pictures throughout the teardown (in case I have any issues on assembly).

FWIW-If I was doing this again, I would not pull the valve covers. The intake needs to be removed to do this. They would only need to be pulled if the sprockets and chain need to be replaced after inspection.

I will keep you updated as I progress.

Only tough bolt was the one on the harmonic balancer. Without removing the a/c condenser the space limited and hard to get an impact gun into. My MAC impact was too long and I used my neighbors C&H. I ground down the height on an old socket to help with the fit. When I am done I will post pictures. Other than that all is well.

Joel

 

It all went well, I spent a total of 7 ½ or 8 hours total on the job. If I didn’t pull the intake and valve covers I probably could have done the job in less than 4 hours. The truck has 60k so the next time I have it apart it will be a full timing chain and sprockets so it will include the full time. I will write up detailed instructions on changing the tensioner for others to use. I feel it is not too hard if someone has good mechanical knowledge, the right tools and takes their time.

I replaced the crankshaft seal in the timing chain cover while it was out.

Tim-Thanks for the intake specs, When I picked up the parts (tensioner, crank seal, oil filter) at the dealer I asked for the specs and the service manager got them for me. He was pretty helpful. I asked him what they charged for the job. He said about $1,600.

 

The pictures first posted that lost hosting support have been recovered and moved a few posts ahead. (Max)

Warning-This is my account of changing the “#1 timing chain tensioner”. This is only a job for someone with the right tools and a strong mechanical background. I am not a mechanic, just a guy who has worked on engines since I was a teenager. If you are unsure of your abilities I recommend you take your car to a mechanic or the dealer.

Here is a quick rundown of how to change the tensioner only. If upon inspection the chain, and sprockets need replacing the valve covers need to be removed not just lifted. This involves removing the intake manifolds so the valve covers can come off. I made the mistake of removing the intake and valve covers. The entire job took around 7 ½ to 8 hours. It could have been done in 3 or 4 without removing these items. I wrote these instructions to do the job without removing these. If you do need to replace the chain and sprockets I suggest that you take lots of pictures as you disassemble to help with any issues reassembling. It may not be needed but it is sure nice to have (just in case).

1) First thing is to disconnect the battery.
2) Drain coolant from petcock at bottom of radiator.
3) Disconnect transmission lines from radiator, put something in lines to plug (I used a large bolt).
4) Disconnect power steering reservoir from radiator (two bolts)
5) Disconnect coolant hoses from radiator
6) Loosen belts
7) Remove 4 bolts holding fan in place
8) Remove 2 bolts holding in radiator
9) Remove radiator, shroud and fan at same time (do not remove shroud from radiator)
I removed them separately (not planning on removing the radiator) I then realized the radiator would need to be removed to loosen the harmonic balancer bolt.
10) Remove belts
11) Remove idler pulley (2 bolts)
12) Remove P/S pump from bracket (2 bolts accessible through holes in pulley)
13) Remove idler pulley/power steering pump bracket (3 bolts)
14) Remove harmonic balancer (use of impact and puller are necessary for this step)
Without removing the a/c condenser the space limited and hard to get an impact gun into. My MAC impact was too long and I used my neighbors C&H. I ground down the height on an old socket to help with the fit.
15 through 17) This is how I would do it in the future. I wasted a lot of time pulling the intake manifold in order to remove the valve covers.
15) Remove 2 front nuts and loosen 2 rear nuts on both valve covers
16) Loosen valve covers (I used a dead blow hammer for this)
17) Place a wood shim between valve cover and head to lift valve cover off top of timing chain cover
18) Remove bolts holding timing cover on (about 30 bolts, 4 come up from the front of the oil pan
19) Tie the timing chain in place. You do not want it to move when you remove the tensioner ( I used welding wire to tie the chain)
20) Remove old tensioner
21) Install new tensioner then remove tie wire
22) Clean all mating surfaces of grease, oil, and old gasket material
22a) Install new crank seal in timing cover
23) Apply new gasket material pay close attention to areas where the head meets block, head meets valve cover and block meets oil pan
24) Reassemble in reverse order

Torque Specs.

Idler sprocket 45 N.m
(4.5 kg-m, 32.5 lb-ft)
Timing Chain Tensioner Nut Tightening Torque
27 N.m (2.7 kg-m, 19.5 lb-ft)
Timing Chain Tensioner Adjuster Bolt Tightening Torque
11 N.m (1,1 kg-m, 7,5 lb-ft)
Timing Chain Guide Bolt Tightening Torque
9 N.m (0.9 kg-m, 6.5 lb-ft) Timing Chain Guide #4 Bolt Tightening Torque
11 N.m (1.1 kg-m, 7.5 lb-ft)
Timing cover bolts
11 N.m (1,1 kg-m, 7,5 lb-ft)
Crank Pulley
150 N.m (15 kg-m, 108.5 lb-ft)

 

Max,

I have had quite a few PM's from people asking for the info and have been e-mailing it to them. When they changed the site my old photo garage that had the instructions went away and the new photo garage is not formatted in a way to post these very easily. So I thought I would make this thread to help. I thought I attached photos in the thread. When I looked from my other computer they didn't show. I edited the post with thumbnails that should open??? Let me know if it worked.

I still lurk here when I can, but I have been pretty busy at work and at home. Did brakes on the XL-7 yesterday and my daughter got a steal on a 92 BMW 525i that I have been fixing allot of little things on before she goes off to college. The biggest being a R12 to R134A conversion.

 

Here are the higher resolution pics earlier lost...

https://imgur.com/a/LNdaino

(I re-hosted anew on 11/16/18)
And thanks again Joel for initially providing.

Glad to see that you've been busy w/other projects. I did the R-12-134 conversion a few years back on my Nova. Dumped the old compressor oil for the new stuff (PAG or ESTER I think it was called).

It went well, but you can't beat the cooling attributes of old R-12. Watch the charge level, cause' the 134 WILL run that high side pressure up there real fast! Rule of thumb is to undercharge about 15%. I found (and read) that the old condenser can't dissipate the heat well enough to properly support 134.

 

My GV just started running like crap...Wont idle, no power, 25 top speed. I am thinking the timing chain is a possibility. 195,000 miles. 190# on all 6 cylinders. new sparks, fuel pressure is good, TPS checks out...Not the exhast, fuel filter

What do you think? How can I check?
Valve damage on the V6 with a chain problem?

Help please.

 

You should have (or had) one heck of an engine rattle if the chains / tensioners are at fault. If the valve timing went really hay wire and you "kissed" some valves w/pistons, then your compression readings would have shown it too.

What codes is the computer throwing out? :huh: There are a BUNCH of other potential problem areas to sort through.

 

Joel,
did you use RTV for the sealant or did you get the Suzuki sealer?
Thanks,
Tom

 

Tom. You may have to PM Milbums (Joel) on this to get his attention as I haven't seen him here in quite some time. This thread is about two years old and his picture posting link is gone as well. BUT I saved the pics and write-up if you need. The pics are in my link below, and the write up (which has pics and narrative) I have in a "Word" doc that I can send to you.

If memory serves me right, I don't think that RTV was used. That would have been my first choice / grab as well, but with as much effort that is involved with this project, I'd opt for the Mac Daddy sealant as recommended by Suzuki (or at least an approved substitute).

 

Tom! I just saw your other post...

http://www.suzuki-forums.com/1g-1999-2005-vitara-grand-vitara/31268-rtv-timing-chain-cover.html

And you've got the 4-banger and not the 2.5 V-6. Be that as it may and w/the info provided by Ewetho, I guess you are good to go with RTV.

One word of advice...get a FRESH tube. The old stuff has a shelf life. I found out the hard way once.

 

Max,
actually mine is a 6 cylinder, it is slightly smaller than my wife's XL7, I thought that it was a 2.o liter.
I pulled the radiator out this weekend, take the belts off next.
Thanks,
Tom

 

Keep us posted!

Get those belts on tight b4 you install the radiator. It's a butt cutter AFTER the fact.

This may help on radiator re-install...

http://www.suzuki-forums.com/1g-1999-2005-vitara-grand-vitara/26512-when-good-radiators-go-bad.html

If ya' need anything...holler!

 

99 Grand Vitara Tensioner

My daughter's 1999 Grand Vitara started making the dreaded timing chain tensioner rattle. I did not know what to do until I found this thread.

I also had the problem with space for the air wrench. I was able to get another inch by removing the bolts that held the radiator brackets. This allowed me to slide the AC condenser forward and get a normal air wrench in. The problem was that neither of my wrenches would break the crankshaft bolt. I finally tied a breaker bar to the frame and touched the starter. I don't recommend this but it worked. Necessity is a mother of an inventor.

You can just loosen the valve covers, but the inside rear nuts are real tough. I had to custom bend two 10 mm wrenches to get them loose and then tighten them.

There are 29 bolts holding the timing chain cover on. I suggest counting them. It is easy to miss one or even two.

The dealership wanted 100 dollars for the tensioner, but I found one from partsdinosaur for 47.

Thanks to your great instructions and pictures I attempted something that I wouldn't have. I fixed the problem for about 60 dollars and I am my daughter's hero.

 

Link to Suzuki's V-6 timing tech bulletin!

Thanks to Lumpy Larry for providing a copy for my being able to have it hosted for all to use.

It's in two parts...

Free File Hosting Made Simple - MediaFire

 

i'm looking for anyone who changed his chain on Ebay :-(

When you first posted I opted not to respond, but having seen this ^^^ - I changed my mind.

You need to understand something about ebay - it's a marketplace, a largely unregulated marketplace - yes, ebay tries to make it secure, but at the end of the day, it's a transaction between you and an unknown vendor, supplying parts from an unknown source and the onus is on you to safeguard yourself.

If two people buy the "same" part on ebay, they may not be dealing with the same vendor, and the parts may come from a different source and be of different quality. I know that several people have run into difficulties with ebay sourced chain kits, but that does not mean that you will, and by the same token it does not mean that you won't - search the forum, you'll find the threads describing experiences ranging from difficulties installing the replacement chains (due to incorrect markings) to total failure.

When using ebay, you need to look at the vendor reputation and the brand of part being supplied, if that information is provided, and then try to match that back to what the folks here have reported.

I've bought car parts on ebay and been happy with the purchase, but I opted to go with genuine Suzuki for my timing components.