Having no personal experience, I can't answer your questions, but, I want to suggest that you get a 2.7 from a year close to 2002, rather than a newer one - the 2.7s from 2006 onwards have differences.

Looking at the parts manuals for the 02 model year, I see no knock sensor on the 2.5, it is there on the 2.7, just leave it unplugged, the 2.7 uses a different cam position sensor, I would suggest using the 2.5, provided that it visually matches with the 2.7 one as far as mounting & interfacing with the cam shaft - the torx bolt allows adjustment and can be used as a reference.

A friend of mine is actually looking for a 2.7 to do this swap, but in his case, the motor has to be sourced in the US and then shipped out, so he has some logistic challenges to deal with - my involvement will come once the motor is here.

 

I want to suggest that you get a 2.7 from a year close to 2002, rather than a newer one - the 2.7s from 2006 onwards have differences.

The last 'stay away from' rendition of the 2.7 was peculuiar to the GV. The XL used the new 3.6L starting in 2006.

Valve inspections on the '06-'08, 2.7L V-6

So I'm at the dealer talking to one of the mechanics there. He asks me if I heard about the valve inspection that the new GV's have to have. The first one is due around 23K miles. I asked him how much that service goes for and he says about $1200. Is he out of his mind? I checked the manual and...

www.suzuki-forums.com

The CPS addjustment is via two Torx bolts, one of which is shown here...


I don't think that the Knock Sensor is a issue. IF the ECU is looking for it you could plug it in but isolate the sensory function of it so as not to cause a problem I guess.

 

I'm just starting to tear this one down. I've about got the old one out.

 

Yeah. The later 2004, 2.7L CPS is certainly different in design and maybe function.

 

See the supplemental H27 (2.7L) Service Manual to the Mediafire Tech Pubs list accessed via the top FAQ thread. It shows the later style CPS and has ignition timing particulars as well.

 

Thanks - I'll do that.

 

Following this post as I'm considering doing this exact swap. Please post all you find out rallison203. I have a 2003 2.7L cornered with under 100,000 miles for a decent price. Thanks!!!

 

Will do. I've dialed back my postings on this forum generally but if I find anything important I'll write it up. Taking it slow; right now I'm doing some basic cleaning and making my parts list. So far no surprises except for the knock sensor and the CPS. I don't expect to be finished for a few months so don't wait for me, when deciding whether to buy your engine.

I paid $500 for the ZR2 (with all skid plates) and another $400 for the engine.

I saw something recently on this forum about the screw-in type vs the push-in type of PCV valve. My worn-out H25a has the push in type while my donor H27a has the "screw in" type. One was hard to find; I'm not sure about the other.

Anybody remember this? Can't find the thread and I'd like to use the valve cover which uses the PCV valve that's easier to find.

 

If I remember correctly, the screw in's were for a certain VIN number. My VIN actually showed I should have had a screw in (Max posted the VIN's, but that was a LONG time ago), but mine had a push in, Green and Purple. Rock Auto shows both available for my year model (2003) for the 2.5 and 2.7. I think the most important issue would be to use the PCV that matches your year model vehicle that the engine is going into. No matter the donor engine year (2.7L 2001-2006) if possible, use the PCV Valve from the Truck's build year. That's the way I will be doing it.

I have been scouring the net looking at pictures of Cam Position Sensors for both the 2.5L and the 2.7L. Greatest obvious difference I have seen is that the 2.7L CPS is secured by one bolt or screw, and the 2.5L by two. Also, as Max posted above, there is a slight size difference. Both use 4 pin connectors, and the part that goes into the valve cover looks identical on both. The CPS generates pulses that are reflected (for lack of a better word) off of a small oval thin piece of metal with notches cut in it, often called a reluctor ring That ring is bolted to the cam. In my stupor while surfing the net, came across a site that uses the 2.5L and 2.7L engines in paragliders. Basically the rings are exactly the same They have found some place in Europe that will make a reluctor ring to your specification, or either they already have one that "enhances" the engines performance curve for paraglide use.

I also came across someone who had an issue getting the MAF's to work right without throwing a code. The gentleman didn't really follow up with what he did, other than he used the 2.7L intake horn air box, and other intake components to get things working. If possible, i would try to secure the ENTIRE 2.7L intake assembly Rallison. Will keep you posted if I run across anything else. Good Luck!!!

 

If possible, i would try to secure the ENTIRE 2.7L intake assembly Rallison.

That's interesting - on the intake, fuel rail - I have read the opposite. From the Aussie site I mentioned a while back. I'll double-check but I think he said to use the entire 2.5 intake / TB assembly including fuel rails.

Re the CPS I haven't looked into this yet. I'm sure there will be issues. I'll report back as I dig into it.

 

H25 / H27 V-6: Exhaust Smoke. Valve Cover Baffle...

This is for v6 (H25A) engines only as far as I know. Made a trip to the dealer this afternoon to see if the PCV valve in these engines has any unique specifications. My truck is a 03 Chevy Tracker. Based on my VIN #, GM parts says that I should have a SCREW in PCV valve :eek:. I told the...

www.suzuki-forums.com

 

Thanks Max. I think I'm going to go with the 2.5 valve covers. I'm gonna try to convince the Tracker's ecu into thinking it's running a 2.5 engine so I'll use as many Tracker parts as I can. Which is basically what the guy recommended for this swap on the Aussie site.

Edit: well actually, he didn't say that, specifically, about the pcv valve. I briefly read the 2013 post about VINs and PCV valves in the link and I may rethink this.

 

Hey Rallison, I could very well be mistaken about which air intake to use. I just wanted to make sure you covered all your bases, and if available, grab the air box, as much of the MAF wiring as possible, and the tube up to where it connects to the throttle body.

I have also read that the intake manifold and injectors on the engines interchange, 2.5 fits 2.7 and visa versa. While there are different part numbers listed for injectors between the two engines, the thread I read said that the 2.5 ECM worked just fine in handling the 2.7 injectors without throwing any codes related to fuel injectors.

On the reluctor ring, yes they are both the same for 2.5 and 2.7L, but there were aftermarket ones available that allowed the engines to work at a more efficient rpm range for the paragliders (I have no idea where that "range" is). They also talked about a guy in europe who can custom make one to your specifications.

Thanks for the thread from the dead Max!!!

 

Good to know about the injectors. I was wondering about that. Also I read somewhere that the 2.5 exhaust may be a little restrictive for the 2.7. The previous owner rammed the honeycomb out of the lower cat so I'll need to source some exhaust parts as well. If I can get the darn thing running right I'm considering some kind of dual SS magnaflow setup. Just for kicks.

 

Re the airbox - I don't have access to any more xl-7 parts than what came with the deal. I bought it from a guy who pulled it from a wrecked vehicle, I don't know where or when. If I need more I'll have to visit another junkyard. But I'm not anticipating that. I expect to be able to use most of the 2.5 upper end.

BTW - here's something interesting. While searching my prior orders on amazon I learned that my 2.5L timing kit is "not compatible" with an 04 XL-7. And I don't know why. I thought that was interesting. More on this as I look into it.

 

BTW - here's something interesting. While searching my prior orders on amazon I learned that my 2.5L timing kit is "not compatible" with an 04 XL-7. And I don't know why. I thought that was interesting. More on this as I look into it.

Find one of the parts websites that will let you search the part numbers - I took a quick look - chain part numbers are the same, adjuster/tensioner part numbers are the same - I didn't have enough on an interest to cross-reference every one of the various guides & sprockets - but as far as I know, they interchange.

 

BTW, Great looking shop!!!

Don

.

 

BTW, Great looking shop!!!

Don

Thanks Don, didn't mean to ignore you. Working outdoors has it's advantages and disadvantages. But our weather allows us to do it pretty much year round, thankfully.

 

Does anyone know offhand whether the fuel injectors on a 2004 XL-7 2.7L are the same output as those in a Tracker or GV 2.5L?

Am I gonna starve the 2.7 by using 2.5 injectors?

 

RockAuto states different part numbers for each application.

2000 SUZUKI GRAND VITARA 2.5L V6 Fuel Injector | Shop Now at RockAuto

Fuel & Air Parts and More for Your 2000 SUZUKI GRAND VITARA at Reliably Low Prices. Fast Online Catalog. DIY-Easy. Your Choice of Quality. Full Manufacturer Warranty.

www.rockauto.com

2004 SUZUKI XL-7 2.7L V6 Fuel Injector | Shop Now at RockAuto

Fuel & Air Parts and More for Your 2004 SUZUKI XL-7 at Reliably Low Prices. Fast Online Catalog. DIY-Easy. Your Choice of Quality. Full Manufacturer Warranty.

www.rockauto.com

 

Thanks. I was outside, cleaning, hands full of grease. I'll take a look.

 

Well yes, interesting, there are two different part numbers and the injectors do not look alike.

The OEM and alternate part numbers are all there in Max's post. The flow rate for the 2.5 is apparently 416.7cc/min. Unfortunately however I haven't been able to determine the flow rate for the 2.7L no matter which part number I search under.

No matter. I've decided to go with the 2.5 injectors per the Zuk site quoted above. I've got plenty of them. The 2.7 injectors look different too, so I'm going to assume they may have different spacers and possibly even different pintles and apertures for the fuel rail. That means possibly having to use the XL7 intake and that violates the prime directive. Not going there.

They say your injector flow rate is also affected by fuel pressure so maybe I'll research the 2.5 v 2.7 fuel pressure regulators. Those look to be interchangeable.

Edit: my research says the fuel pressure regulators are interchangeable as between the 2.5 and the 2.7. So a swap wouldn't increase my fuel delivery. If anybody learns the flow rate for the XL7 injectors, I'd be interested to know that.

 

Here's something I ran across twice that some might find helpful.

I'm in the middle of pulling a 2.5L engine. Unlike some folks, I like to pull the exhaust manifolds. Makes it a lot easier for me to reach other stuff like the bell housing bolts.

However. On the left side there's a nut / stud on the lower flange of the manifold that you can't reach with a socket extension. One of three. It's the one closest to the engine. It SEEMS like the socket is fully shouldered on the nut, but it isn't. The crossover pipe is in the way. Twice I've stripped this nut and twice it's taken me the rest of the day to remove it. You can't get any leverage on it with a wrench.

Next time I would pull the crossover pipe.

 

Weird. I installed my manifolds after the engine was in place, and the three lower studs where not nearly as hard to get to as some other vehicles I've worked on. I guess I got lucky!

 

Did you pull the manifolds that were in the previous engine? Those lower 3 nuts are all rusted and it gets worse from there. Now that you mention it, I remember shouldering that same nut when reinstalling it, too!! So maybe you did get lucky.

 

The V6 was already removed when I got Bazuki, so I can't say on remove of that one. The 2 J20A's that I removed I had no troubles with the nuts. Have you used PB B'laster on 'em? Or heat 'em up and melt wax onto the threads? All I used is the PB, but wax works well on exhaust components too.

 

All I used is the PB, but wax works well on exhaust components too.

Yes I even used wax. That may have helped but it finally came off with an extractor socket and a whole lot of carving with a dremel tool.

It turns out that manifold was cracked just behind the rear exhaust port, so I had it welded yesterday. From the receipts I got with the car, the passenger side had been replaced too - cracked, like the other one.

Here's my theory. From the paint on the car I can tell it was once in a collision on the driver's side rear. I think the exhaust was pushed forward in the accident and cracked at the manifolds. Ever hear of that?

I had a spare manifold from my earlier project so they're all cleaned up and ready for reinstallation.

 

Ok this is more than 2 questions.

I've attached a photo of the lower oil pan on my XL-7 engine. There's some kind of plug in the bottom. Anyone familiar with the purpose of this? It doesn't look like a repair because there's no wrinkled metal or bashed paint around it. It's not a drain. Maybe a vent?

 

It looks more like a boss / attachment point to fasten something external to the pan.

Not sure what nor why though.

 

It must be a repair. Maybe there was a crack or something. I can use my other oil pan; I was just wondering if there was some fancy venting or something in the h27a that I hadn't heard of before.

The boss idea sounds right but I can't imagine Suzuki would have hung something lower than the oil pan.

 

If put a 03 grand vitara 2.5 into a 04 xl7 everythang was on different sides the only thang is the cam shaft postion sensor ican not seem to find it on the o3 grand vitara to plug on to the 04 harness any ideas

 

ican not seem to find it on the o3 grand vitara to plug on to the 04 harness any ideas

Related question. Does your 04 harness have a knock sensor connector, and if so, how did you deal with that?

 

02 it's on the driver side, rear.

Don

 

Ok I restarted this project after a bit of a hiatus.

Recall this is my 2.5 to 2.7 engine swap. I'm just about to pull the old engine.

I just removed the right CV axle. When I reassemble, I'd like to repack the wheel bearings. Has anyone ever installed a grease fitting on the dust cap? So I can force grease in there?

More questions to come, I'm sure. Thanks.

 

I'm not sure you'll accomplish what you intend by adding a grease zerk. The ones I've disassembled had sealed bearings, so even if the grease got all the way in to the bearings, you'd most likely just blow it out the back side before making any difference in the bearing. I'd be happy to be wrong though.

 

Thanks Lou, exactly what I needed to know.

 

I started this post with a question whether an H27a from an 04 XL7 will swap into my 02 Tracker V6 using the 2.7's original original cam position sensor (CPS).

I'm finally putting my engine together, so it's decision time.

Lou, you said several months ago that the reluctor ring on the 2.7 CPS will interchange with the 2.5.

Despite this, my research still tells me the two CPS units are not interchangeable. Today I found this post:

Engine conversion and other questions

Hi all, I have a 2000-model Australian-spec GV (SQ625 with, of course, the H25A V6/5-speed manual trans.) I've been asking around and no-one seems to be able to give a definitive answer on a couple of questions... Firstly, does anyone make an off-the-shelf extractor exhaust to suit the H25A...

www.suzuki-forums.com

At post #17, the OP says the car wouldn't run until he swapped in the CPS from the 2.5L. This is consistent with every post I can find on this subject.

I'm going with the 2.5L CPS on the H27a. Unfortunately this means I'll have to adjust timing.

I've read the FSM for both Suzuki and Chevrolet. I've also read posts on this forum describing the timing adjustment procedure both with- and without scan tool.

My question is this. If I install the CPS from the 2.5L into the H27a, then - assuming it will start - can I just set timing with a timing light?

I don't have the scan tool, and I don't want to burn up my ECU by jumping the wrong pins.

The only adjustment for the CPS (2.5 or 2.7, with or without scan tool) is to loosen the torx screw and rotate the CPS a few degrees. Can I simply find the right position for this adjustment using a simple timing light?

Thanks for any input.

 

can I just set timing with a timing light?

As far as I know (and I could be very wrong on this) the later model cars did not include the under-hood diagnostic plug where you could jumper the timing at 5°. I believe you will have to borrow a Suzuki specific scanner to set the timing. I have read of unsuccessful attempts to place a jumper at the PCM connectors. Hopefully other readers can offer personal experience. All I know for certain is that my 2001 Tracker does not have the under-hood plug.

 

You need a scan tool to freeze the base timing to then be able to set it at 5 degrees using a timing light