My 2007 XL7 currently has 80 000 KMS or approx. 50 000 miles. My engine light came on a few weeks ago but would only come on for a short time then go off for a period of time. I checked the code and it came up as a P008, something to do with the crank or cam shaft timing. But since the light was not staying on permanently I thought it might just be a problem with the sensor itself. About 2 weeks later the light came on and stayed on. The truck seemed to be running fine and have not noticed any lack of performance. I brought it to the Suzuki dealer this morning to find out that the timing chains need to be changed. I was told that this is a problem/flaw with these motors. The parts have been ordered and my vehicle will be spending 2-3 days next week. This is all covered under the powertrain warranty. I did ask if I should expect the same problem 80 000 KMS later and they said probably not since they are replacing the parts with what is suppose to better quality parts from Suzuki. I am not impressed at all with this problem and I will probably get rid of this vehicle by next year. I have lost confidence with this vehicle!
Rickard
- Status
Same problem with my 2007 XL7
Hi guys,
Proud to be here and honored to chat with experts like yourself.
I'm from Saudi Arabia. I bought my 2007 XL7 2.5 years ago for the family. All was fine except some reliability problems (CD, back door, indicator, ...etc). Two weeks ago, I came to know that the engine lamb was on and off and there was a voice coming from the engine like Grrr Grrr Grrr when the car is moving. Took it to a workshop and was told that it was the chain and it has to be replaced. We agreed to do that and were surprised to get very high price from SUZUKI for the 3 chains and the oil filter or something. So, the engineer told me that this engine is identical to the 2007 Lumina and that he would get the engine's serial number to make sure that they are the same. Any ways, we managed to get the parts from GM instead of Suzuki. Price was half the price. He fixed them all. When I got the car after one week, the engine lamb was off but the next day it went on again. So, I called the guy and he asked me to try the car for another 1000 km then bring it back to him.
I have a question, lesson to learn and a comment
Question: What do you think of what the engineer told me?
Lesson to learn: I kept my car without changing oil for more than 10,000 KM, don't do it. Change it every 3000 KM.
Comment: This is my last SUZUKI
Thanks,
Hi guys,
Proud to be here and honored to chat with experts like yourself.
I'm from Saudi Arabia. I bought my 2007 XL7 2.5 years ago for the family. All was fine except some reliability problems (CD, back door, indicator, ...etc). Two weeks ago, I came to know that the engine lamb was on and off and there was a voice coming from the engine like Grrr Grrr Grrr when the car is moving. Took it to a workshop and was told that it was the chain and it has to be replaced. We agreed to do that and were surprised to get very high price from SUZUKI for the 3 chains and the oil filter or something. So, the engineer told me that this engine is identical to the 2007 Lumina and that he would get the engine's serial number to make sure that they are the same. Any ways, we managed to get the parts from GM instead of Suzuki. Price was half the price. He fixed them all. When I got the car after one week, the engine lamb was off but the next day it went on again. So, I called the guy and he asked me to try the car for another 1000 km then bring it back to him.
I have a question, lesson to learn and a comment
Question: What do you think of what the engineer told me?
Lesson to learn: I kept my car without changing oil for more than 10,000 KM, don't do it. Change it every 3000 KM.
Comment: This is my last SUZUKI
Thanks,
Have the parts now, but noticing the front bank upper tensioner seems week. The other chains are tight as hell but this one gives quite a bit - rolls the exhast cam when I press down on top. I don't recall if it was that way when i took it apart, but if it leaks down anyway... My codes were P0008 and P0018 if that makes a difference. The parts guy said they did one tensioner out of about 15 jobs there. I'm thinking I might include it. Anyone? Thanks..
Most codes will clear themselves after several drive cycles IF the problem goes away, and that is what he's thinking.
Without the code number we can't be of much help out here.Is that one hydraulic actuating? If so, it needs to run and build oil pressure for it to extend / tighten the chain.
So, I finished last week. The chains were definetely stretched. You could see it laying them along side each other. Tensioners and rails I left. alldatadiy.com was helpfull only for the timing marks. I pulled the plugs out and put screwdrivers in the holes. I brought the motor to tdc and turned it about 30deg until I could see that all the pistons were about equally away from the valves. Then I locked the cams, pulled off the chains and realesed the cams. As recommended, I then turned the cams so they rested with their timing marks aprox. in the right place (up at least). Slowly I turned the crank to its apropriate relative position and put the chains on matching the colored links with their respective marks on the sprockets. I pulled the pistons out of the tensioners and twisted them into their collapsed, locked position. Once back on I pushed the pivoting guide rail against the tensioner very hard a few times to unlock it. I spun the motor over by hand many times until I could see oil bleeding out from the tensioners then I turned it several more times again.
Now it runs the same as before but the orange light is off.
Thank you very much for all your help! Now I'm a Suzuki expert! hahahaha
Here are my cam 'lock tools' haha. Glad you don't know my real name! haha Thanks again
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Now it runs the same as before but the orange light is off.
Thank you very much for all your help! Now I'm a Suzuki expert! hahahaha
Here are my cam 'lock tools' haha. Glad you don't know my real name! haha Thanks again
GM has been busy with this problem
Just went through this myself.
All three timing chains and one of the tensioners.
~1k in parts, ~1.5K in labour. (CDN) (~125000km) Done at a GM shop using GM parts. They will drop the engine, open her up and replace the chains. Said they do a tensioner for one out of every 10.
If you know a GM dealer or mechanic, talk to them about this engine. They do these change outs all the time. I believe there was a bad batch of chains ~2007 that contaminated these engines. This engine is pretty much identical to the LY7 GM engine. All most all of the engine (most of the vehicle actually) docs are direct copies of GM’s service manuals. (Heck, the owner's manual is a GM reprint). It appears GM are also having the same issue on the LLT engine (the new direct injection version of the LY7) and are replacing timing chains at an alarming rate. Just take a look at the Cadillac and Buick forums. The GM guys I talked to mentioned that they have not had another fault until since newer design chains have come out as a replacement.
The LY7 was developed by Cadillac originally and starts showing up in many Cadillac models in 2005. The XL7 engine appears to be identical to the LY7 used in the 2008 Pontiac Torrent GXP. This engine design has been through four different timing chain designs.
If your Suzuki dealer hasn’t seen many of these vehicles (ours has only sold 2) and out are out of warranty and want somebody who’s done many of these jobs, go visit your local Cadillac dealer. Chev, Buick and Pontiac have only started using this engine and it's derivatived in 2008 or so. Cadiallac has had them for a good 5 years.
Just went through this myself.
All three timing chains and one of the tensioners.
~1k in parts, ~1.5K in labour. (CDN) (~125000km) Done at a GM shop using GM parts. They will drop the engine, open her up and replace the chains. Said they do a tensioner for one out of every 10.
If you know a GM dealer or mechanic, talk to them about this engine. They do these change outs all the time. I believe there was a bad batch of chains ~2007 that contaminated these engines. This engine is pretty much identical to the LY7 GM engine. All most all of the engine (most of the vehicle actually) docs are direct copies of GM’s service manuals. (Heck, the owner's manual is a GM reprint). It appears GM are also having the same issue on the LLT engine (the new direct injection version of the LY7) and are replacing timing chains at an alarming rate. Just take a look at the Cadillac and Buick forums. The GM guys I talked to mentioned that they have not had another fault until since newer design chains have come out as a replacement.
The LY7 was developed by Cadillac originally and starts showing up in many Cadillac models in 2005. The XL7 engine appears to be identical to the LY7 used in the 2008 Pontiac Torrent GXP. This engine design has been through four different timing chain designs.
If your Suzuki dealer hasn’t seen many of these vehicles (ours has only sold 2) and out are out of warranty and want somebody who’s done many of these jobs, go visit your local Cadillac dealer. Chev, Buick and Pontiac have only started using this engine and it's derivatived in 2008 or so. Cadiallac has had them for a good 5 years.
Great advise but this preety much guarantees I will be trading in the XL7 before the warranty is over.
What are the symptoms of this problem? Only the check engine light and the code?
Any sounds from the engine, misfires or anything else noticeable before the check engine light comes on?
Ours has around 38k miles, and 3 yrs, so we have a lot left over on the warranty.
What are the symptoms of this problem? Only the check engine light and the code?
Any sounds from the engine, misfires or anything else noticeable before the check engine light comes on?
Ours has around 38k miles, and 3 yrs, so we have a lot left over on the warranty.
Anything I've seen has been subjective. The only true way I see would be to monitor the camshaft position variance with a good scan tool. This value is calculated for all four cam shafts and is the difference between the commanded cam phase angle and the measured cam phase angle. If the computer measures that both cams are off by the same amount in the same direction for more then 4 continuous seconds or 50 cumulative seconds for two trips then the timing performance code is raised for that bank. If the conditions for this code are not present for four trips, the light will turn off.
As you can see, thing need to be pretty bad for the light to illuminate. If the chains stretch, there will be a period where they are right on the edge of triping the code. This is why some people report the light coming on and off intermittently. A weak tensioner could cause the chain to move around, also triggering the code. Eventually the chains will stretch enough to continuously trigger the code. The code is typically present with other timing related codes, P0008 and P0017 are typical.
I've read somewhere that the algorithm is sensitive enough to catch if one of the chains have been installed one tooth off. I believe this was the original intent of the code to verify the chains were installed correctly after engine work.
GM has a lot of these engines out there. Will it happen to every one, who knows. Most appear to be 2007 and some early 2008 LY7's produced in 2007. There are very few, if any 2008 or 2009 vehicles on the forums with this issue. Same thing with the later LLT engines, seems to be only a certain date range of engines effected.
As you can see, thing need to be pretty bad for the light to illuminate. If the chains stretch, there will be a period where they are right on the edge of triping the code. This is why some people report the light coming on and off intermittently. A weak tensioner could cause the chain to move around, also triggering the code. Eventually the chains will stretch enough to continuously trigger the code. The code is typically present with other timing related codes, P0008 and P0017 are typical.
I've read somewhere that the algorithm is sensitive enough to catch if one of the chains have been installed one tooth off. I believe this was the original intent of the code to verify the chains were installed correctly after engine work.
GM has a lot of these engines out there. Will it happen to every one, who knows. Most appear to be 2007 and some early 2008 LY7's produced in 2007. There are very few, if any 2008 or 2009 vehicles on the forums with this issue. Same thing with the later LLT engines, seems to be only a certain date range of engines effected.
Other Than the light coming on i did notice a reduction in power. Well my XL7 has been with the dealer for a week. so far they say suzuki may replace the engine. I read an above post that if the timing chain wears out. hmm wouldnt that contaminate the lubricant and get fine metal into other parts of the motor. The dealer did say that the reason they may change the motor is that other componants appear to be failing shortly thereafter. so rather have the vehicle keep coming back they may replace it. also they told me "the computer gives inacurate times for engil oil life." They also mentioned the sludge problem. However i have used full synthetic the whole time and my engine is clean as a whistle. So yes i would say that the timing chains are a defect.
I will make a video of an 07 XL7 I'm working on right now that needs t-chains. It has ZERO power, barely running. Has 11 DTCs. P0006, P0008, P0016, P0018, then there are two codes for engine system performance bank 1 and 2, then cylinder misfires P0300, P0302, P0304, P0306...
Can't wait to tear into it. It's my first one
Can't wait to tear into it. It's my first one
This thread is becoming a great source of information (that Suzuki should had given us anyways in a recall or at least a TSB with the VIN on the XL7s with the bad batch of chains), keep up the great work.
), keep up the great work.
Jeff, I'll bet that one had a chain jump at least one tooth..
Try setting up the cam tools first, I have a feeling they won't fit..
Also, they quietly changed the software on the oil life monitor.
If you do a reflash on the ECM you'll notice the latest software changes the oil life to 5,000 miles..
Try setting up the cam tools first, I have a feeling they won't fit..
Also, they quietly changed the software on the oil life monitor.
If you do a reflash on the ECM you'll notice the latest software changes the oil life to 5,000 miles..
Hmmm good to know...I think every XL7 just had P0128 come on since it's been cold out . Perfect excuse to quietly update everyone's ECM under warranty and help them save their engine!
I will set up the tool first and see what's what. I have to bring the truck in tomorrow and get the engine number off of the motor so we can order parts. Just got approval to go ahead and repair under warranty today. It's an American vehicle so we need to get approval before any warranty work is done.
. Perfect excuse to quietly update everyone's ECM under warranty and help them save their engine!I will set up the tool first and see what's what. I have to bring the truck in tomorrow and get the engine number off of the motor so we can order parts. Just got approval to go ahead and repair under warranty today. It's an American vehicle so we need to get approval before any warranty work is done.
VERY interesting thread!
Shopping for a new SUV looked at the Suzuki's and others. Really like the GM Acadia but I've been hearing about timing chain issues with them also! http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f53/acadia-3-6l-chain-stretch-98372/
Now I see they use the same engine or design as Suzuki! GM used these in their Acadia's Enclave's etc. since 2007. Now I'm trying to figure out if and when they corrected this issue? Sounds like depending on maintance its not if but when these things need to be replaced. Off waranty on the GM Suv it's not cheap as the engine has to be removed. I was looking to buy used one a couple years old 2008 or 2009 but now I'm not so sure.
Shopping for a new SUV looked at the Suzuki's and others. Really like the GM Acadia but I've been hearing about timing chain issues with them also! http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f53/acadia-3-6l-chain-stretch-98372/
Now I see they use the same engine or design as Suzuki! GM used these in their Acadia's Enclave's etc. since 2007. Now I'm trying to figure out if and when they corrected this issue? Sounds like depending on maintance its not if but when these things need to be replaced. Off waranty on the GM Suv it's not cheap as the engine has to be removed. I was looking to buy used one a couple years old 2008 or 2009 but now I'm not so sure.
People that are getting new motors must have other issues with the motor as well? Suzuki called me and asked if there was any engine noise at all becase they would rather put a new motor in than put chains in something that is going to blow up down the road.
Maybe it is turning into a Verona situation where we replaced whole engines instead of putting new lifters in the engine becasue it was cheaper to do a motor than it was tear down the current one and repair it
Maybe it is turning into a Verona situation where we replaced whole engines instead of putting new lifters in the engine becasue it was cheaper to do a motor than it was tear down the current one and repair it
I have the same problem with mine. Except the engine light never came on and off. We were driving back from visiting my parents over the holidays and the engine just died in the middle of the highway.
Had it towed to Suzuki dealer and they looked at it. Stated the timing chain had broke and completley damaged the internals of the engine. They are saying its an internal lubrication problem. the vehicle has about 80k on it and the oil was changed when the vehile told me to change it. Synthetic only of course.
I failed to keep all my receipts so I am contacting the garages where it was done. I managed to find a couple of walmart receipts when I bought the oil and filter and brought it to the garage to have them change. i also found a receipt from a garage that is now closed that I used to get my regular maintenence done. Another garage "Paper System" provided me with another receipt when they did it.
So at this point I am fighting to get it repaired under warranty. Been sitting at the dealer for over 2 weeks now. They only cover 6 days rental up to $240 and only if the reapairs are coverd. This is our only vehicle so we had to borrow a family members car.
Lesson learnt for me not keeping the receipts but if this is a known problem why are they giving me soo much of a hassel?
I really liked this vehicle without issues. All I had to do in 2.5 years was regular oil chages, tires of course and new pads and rotors. Now I am not impressed at all with Suzuki knowing they are well aware of this problem and trying to blame me for lack of oil changes. I alos paid for the "Extended PLATNIUM Warranty" when I purchased the vehicle!
Had it towed to Suzuki dealer and they looked at it. Stated the timing chain had broke and completley damaged the internals of the engine. They are saying its an internal lubrication problem. the vehicle has about 80k on it and the oil was changed when the vehile told me to change it. Synthetic only of course.
I failed to keep all my receipts so I am contacting the garages where it was done. I managed to find a couple of walmart receipts when I bought the oil and filter and brought it to the garage to have them change. i also found a receipt from a garage that is now closed that I used to get my regular maintenence done. Another garage "Paper System" provided me with another receipt when they did it.
So at this point I am fighting to get it repaired under warranty. Been sitting at the dealer for over 2 weeks now. They only cover 6 days rental up to $240 and only if the reapairs are coverd. This is our only vehicle so we had to borrow a family members car.
Lesson learnt for me not keeping the receipts but if this is a known problem why are they giving me soo much of a hassel?
I really liked this vehicle without issues. All I had to do in 2.5 years was regular oil chages, tires of course and new pads and rotors. Now I am not impressed at all with Suzuki knowing they are well aware of this problem and trying to blame me for lack of oil changes. I alos paid for the "Extended PLATNIUM Warranty" when I purchased the vehicle!
BS run around by service dept and DSM...
First took my 08 XL-7 in for P0008 code @ 34,000 miles and they blamed it on the Fram oil filter. Said they were breaking down and allowing trash to pass through thus causing blockage and the code... I knew this was BS because that was the only Fram filter that had ever been put on it... So 35,000 miles and hours of compiling data from here and other sites I took it back in and agreed to a pay for a partial tear down if it wasn't covered... They dropped the oil pan and found nothing... Manager said the pick-up screen was clean as a whistle. They agreed to cover replacing the timing chains and stuff but say they won't cover taking the heads off to inspect for blockages(which caused the problem) in which they found the back head had a blockage...
So now my truck is at the dealer torn down waiting on my battle with Customer Relations... My advice to anyone having issues is gather all the info you can concerning your problem and email the links to the service writer and stand your ground, never accept "Not Covered" as an option...
My opinion is the oil life monitor is the cause of everyones problem with the P0008... I've changed their oil according to the book and oil life monitor, on one occasion I put 10,000 miles on it and it still showed 15% left... You can't do that and expect there no be problems... I'll update as the battle ensues...
First took my 08 XL-7 in for P0008 code @ 34,000 miles and they blamed it on the Fram oil filter. Said they were breaking down and allowing trash to pass through thus causing blockage and the code... I knew this was BS because that was the only Fram filter that had ever been put on it... So 35,000 miles and hours of compiling data from here and other sites I took it back in and agreed to a pay for a partial tear down if it wasn't covered... They dropped the oil pan and found nothing... Manager said the pick-up screen was clean as a whistle. They agreed to cover replacing the timing chains and stuff but say they won't cover taking the heads off to inspect for blockages(which caused the problem) in which they found the back head had a blockage...
So now my truck is at the dealer torn down waiting on my battle with Customer Relations... My advice to anyone having issues is gather all the info you can concerning your problem and email the links to the service writer and stand your ground, never accept "Not Covered" as an option...
My opinion is the oil life monitor is the cause of everyones problem with the P0008... I've changed their oil according to the book and oil life monitor, on one occasion I put 10,000 miles on it and it still showed 15% left... You can't do that and expect there no be problems... I'll update as the battle ensues...
Well, after a brief conversation with a very nice lady @ Customer Relations, I got a call from the service manager saying they are going to cover the entire amount... It seems to be a game of, let's see what we can get the customer to pay, so stand your ground. Now let's see how long it's gonna take to get the parts in... If your within a drive of Clarksville, TN I would defiantly recommend calling Rodney @ Mathew's Suzuki. He's a stand up kind of guy and will do everything possible to get your problem resolved.
Listen to yiwork and make sure you do not give up. I had to do the same thing. Collect information online (there is no shortage) regarding this issue. They said twice there were not going to cover it until I slapped them with the facts.
My XL7 is still sitting at the dealer. They expect the engine to be here next week somtime but can't confirm....
I asked for the software upgrade!!! Susuki told me to make sure I change my oil about every 8K and to pretty much ignore the software. lol What did you just say?
So 3 weeks without a vehicle and still another 2 - 3 week wait!!!
I am happy they are covering thier mistake but I will be almost 2 months without a vehicle. (The warranty covers for 6 days rental) In what world is this acceptable?
Good luck to those with this problem!
My XL7 is still sitting at the dealer. They expect the engine to be here next week somtime but can't confirm....
I asked for the software upgrade!!! Susuki told me to make sure I change my oil about every 8K and to pretty much ignore the software. lol What did you just say?
So 3 weeks without a vehicle and still another 2 - 3 week wait!!!
I am happy they are covering thier mistake but I will be almost 2 months without a vehicle. (The warranty covers for 6 days rental) In what world is this acceptable?
Good luck to those with this problem!
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