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Two questions about 2.5L to 2.7L motor swap

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30K views 183 replies 10 participants last post by  rallison203  
#1 · (Edited)
I'm editing my original post here, so you can jump to the important part.

All of the interchange issues I encountered in this engine swap are detailed at post # 174, located here,
Happy Motoring!!

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New project, 2002 Chevy Tracker ZR2, 2.5L with no timing on the right (#1?) side. I'm pulling the engine and swapping in a 2.7L engine from a wrecked but running 2004 Suz XL-7. The 2.7 is basically a bored out 2.5 but with a couple of important differences.

There's a thread posted on an Aussie Zuk forum from the mid-2010s that comes very close to my situation. The poster said this is the "easiest swap ever". You swap in the 2.7 short block but use your Tracker's 2.5 ECU and all peripherals (except you can use the XL-7 alternator). Two exceptions however: the cam position sensor and the knock sensor apparently do not interchange.

There's also a "2.7 swap" link in the FAQ thread in this forum, but i didn't see where it answered my questions:

First question, kind of a simple one. Can I just cut the 2.7's knock sensor wires and leave it dead in place when I drop it into my Tracker? I'll confirm when I pull the old engine, but I don't think the 2.5 Trackers in the USA used a knock sensor. So I figure I can just cut the 2.7's knock sensor wires and leave the sensor or a plug in place. Right?

Second question. Do I use the 2.7 or the 2.5 cam position sensor? Also I understand that some recalibration may be necessary if you remove or replace them. And there's a torx screw on the side of the CPS that appears to be a set screw of some sort. So I use that screw for the recalibration or ?

Thanks for any help.
 
#114 ·
I refilled it with clean ATF, nearly the same as the amount drained. It just burps down as you add fluid. Takes a few minutes. Slipped right back on after a few turns.

What's goofy is that the impellers (or whatever they're called, inside the TC) turn while you're adding rearward pressure. You have to back off the pressure a bit to rotate the TC back onto the multi-splined input shaft.

I cleaned the trans seal with ATF on a q-tip. Some sludge came out. All the grease is cleaned off everything except a dab on the pilot.

Engine went back in smoothly. All engine-to- trans fasteners and TC bolts torqued down. Good place to stop and make notes.

Good lesson, thanks guys.
 
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#115 ·
Yeah, you have several components inside the tc, stator impeller is on the big splines
Rotor is the free to move one on the small spline shaft, thats the one that actually puts drive into the transmission

Google you tube videos on torque converter and auto transmission operation.

As you have found, getting the input splines into mesh with the impeller is the first issue, then you have to get the stator splines lined up, then the pump dogs. Well done

Pilot doesmt move, anything on there is just to stop it rusting onto the end of the crankshaft
 

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#117 ·
Hey can someone tell me, what's best practice for sealing coolant neck gaskets like this?

This is the flange that goes to the upper radiator hose.

I would install this gasket as shown, with gray sealant on the thermostat housing only. None on the coolant neck, so it can be removed and reinstalled with no messy gasket material on one side?

If that's not right, then I don't understand the purpose of these gaskets.

I have a paper-only gasket but I wanted to use this one.

Image
 
#119 ·
I was curious about the blue ring so I called Felpro customer service. He said no sealant on either side.

So I did as you say, and put a skim coat on both sides.

Also according to Felpro, the printed RTV gasket is supposed to face AWAY from the engine block. However if you use sealant I don't think it really matters.
 
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#120 ·
I use hylomar blue on those things, never sets, never leaks and it scrapes off easily if you ever need to get in there again
 
#122 ·
Here's a repair worth mentioning.

This is the transmission kickdown cable. I've run across a couple of these now that were badly frayed. Replacement is very expensive.

My workaround: I wanted to solder it but the cable wouldn't take solder. So I skinned the insulation off some stranded copper wire and wrapped thin strands around the damaged area many, many times. With a little flux the solder DID suck into that. Then I filed it smooth with a Dremel stone.

It will easily fit in the throttle body pulley. I think it'll work well.

Also a couple of photos showing my current progress.

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#124 ·
Shellac is great if you never want to get it apart, or like spending hours scraping surfaces ces clean.

It does have its uses tho, works well on cork gaskets.
 
#127 ·
Smear if hylomar blue or plain bearing grease will do if surface is good
 
#128 ·
As long as both gaskets are the same thickness I'd be very confident. In that application (two connections at either end of a pipe) you need to make sure that you aren't inducing some flex due to one gasket being thinner than the other. If I can recommend, cut another from the same material for the other side.
 
#130 ·
This "T" right? ;)

Yes that's the one. The gaskets are at both ends of the T.
Smear if hylomar blue or plain bearing grease will do if surface is good
I'd never heard of this stuff. Would you use it with or without the gasket? (For future reference. I'll probably still use a gasket at this joint.)
If I can recommend, cut another from the same material for the other side.
Yes that occurred to me too. I'll probably do that. I'd prefer no sealant here because it's a bear to reach that spot if I ever needed to clean it off.

Thanks everyone.
 
#131 ·
Always with a gasket, its not designed to be used metal on metal except on machined things that don't use gaskets, like motor bike rocker covers or crank case halves. If it didn't have a gasket, use it, if it has a gasket, use it.

The other great thing, it doesn't go hard, break off and clog oil passages like rtv does.
 
#132 · (Edited)
I ended up cutting two gaskets from the blue Felpro coolant grade gasket material. No sealant. We will see.

Edit: next time I'd assemble the crossover on the engine stand. I couldn't get a torque wrench on those rear coolant flange nuts / bolts.

Last evening I installed the intake, plenum, fuel rail, injectors and throttle body. I cleaned and pre-assembled everything several months ago.

Clear sailing ahead, from what I can see. I have all the parts I need to finish up.

Should be ready to turn it over in about a week.
Image
 
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#134 ·
I cleaned and painted the pipe and fitted new o rings. Three of them. Two on the center pipe and one on the thermostat housing. All new gaskets. The old ones were ok but I didn't want to do it twice.
 
#137 ·
One thing ...

I found in the car's service record that someone may have rammed the catalyst out of the lower cat.

I suppose there's still debris in the muffler. I'll check that.

Otherwise, will this affect how the engine runs?

Since the O2 sensors are all upstream, my understanding is they don't monitor the performance of the lower cat. Right?
Image
 
#138 ·
If there is excessive restriction in the exhaust the engine will have issues expiring.. If the engine cannot breath it will choke..

If you want to know for sure measure the back pressure, anything .>2psi @ 2000rpm should be a concern
 
#139 ·
Here's another interchange issue.

The AC mount is different for all 3 of the vehicles I'm working with. I haven't compared the compressors but they're probably all different, too.

My parts car is an 01 Tracker ZR2. The AC bracket uses 2 long studs, one bolt, and two spacers to mount the compressor. (My 01 Tracker LT driver has the same setup.)

The vehicle I'm working on is an 02 ZR2. It uses the same bracket but there are no studs. It uses 3 shorter bolts and there are no spacers.

The XL7 has a completely different bracket which uses 4 long studs and no spacers.

And my son's 00 GV has a different bracket yet, with a swivel bolt at the bottom similar to the alternator bracket. Spacers unknown.

I ended up using the 02 compressor and the 02 bracket (no spacers) on the 2.7 engine. Everything bolts up fine. I hope it's correct for the serpentine belt length.

if anyone wants photos, let me know.

I'll try to summarize all of these issues later.
 
#141 · (Edited)
Well, it took a new battery and about 30 seconds of cranking, but it fired right off!

I ran open headers just to test it. No radiator, exhaust or peripherals. Blew carbon and oil all over my new paint!!

But that's ok, I didn't want that mess in the upper cat.

Tons of smoke, then it smoothed out nicely after it burned off all the PBB in the cylinders.

My first start motor oil is conventional 5-30 with about 4oz of seafoam. I'll run it for a while and replace it with full synthetic.

I ran it for about 30 seconds total. Tomorrow I'm gonna replace the starter which was sparking pretty good.

[Edit: I took down the video. It runs.]
 
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#142 ·
Sounds like a demented chainsaw muaghahaha

At least its running. Well done
 
#143 ·
Sounds like a demented chainsaw muaghahaha

At least its running. Well done
Yeah I was thinking motorcycle. Ha. We had a good laugh, lots of smoke.

I took down the video bc it had personal info. Probably shouldn't do that.

What would cause a starter to spark like that? Fortunately I have 2 more.

Lots of trans fluid into a pan, since I didn't hook up the radiator cooler lines. I probably shouldn't run it dry. Very old, dank fluid.

I'll try to figure out how to post a video.
 
#144 · (Edited)
Question please, before I forget:
Does the thermostat housing also get sealant? Nothing specified in the service manual. The thermostat has it's own rubber seal so I wasn't sure what folks usually do there.

Today:

I installed a different starter, which works fine. Then I attached the XL7 alternator which fits great and all connectors were compatible to the Tracker's wiring. I believe it's 90A or something like that? Slightly larger in size than the stock 60A too, I believe.

Next was the exhaust manifolds, Y pipe and midpipe to complete the exhaust. Then I drained and refilled the transmission, and joined the trans cooler hoses together temporarily so it would hold the clean fluid. The power steering pump was next, then we started it up again.

Sounded great, strangely quiet, very little blue smoke. Next will be the belts and hoses. New radiator arrives Friday.