My 2007 XL7 currently has 80 000 KMS or approx. 50 000 miles. My engine light came on a few weeks ago but would only come on for a short time then go off for a period of time. I checked the code and it came up as a P008, something to do with the crank or cam shaft timing. But since the light was not staying on permanently I thought it might just be a problem with the sensor itself. About 2 weeks later the light came on and stayed on. The truck seemed to be running fine and have not noticed any lack of performance. I brought it to the Suzuki dealer this morning to find out that the timing chains need to be changed. I was told that this is a problem/flaw with these motors. The parts have been ordered and my vehicle will be spending 2-3 days next week. This is all covered under the powertrain warranty. I did ask if I should expect the same problem 80 000 KMS later and they said probably not since they are replacing the parts with what is suppose to better quality parts from Suzuki. I am not impressed at all with this problem and I will probably get rid of this vehicle by next year. I have lost confidence with this vehicle!
Timing chains a MAJOR problem!!
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Rickard
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Welcome Sbrule! 
If the GM variant 3.6, you'd better wait on Lumpylarry to chime in. The more I think about it, that's proly what you are dealing with.
Edit: I just realized that you jumped in on an existing post.
Go here for 2.5 / 2.7 supportive info if you have the earlier engine....
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/1g-1999-2005-vitara-grand-vitara/15338-timing-chain-tensioner-7.html
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/1g-2001-2006-xl-7/25017-timing-chain-tensioner-replacement.html
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/1g-2001-2006-xl-7/20200-sealant-use-suzuki-timing-chain-cover.html
http://www.mediafire.com/file/njnmwj5yjtk/(1 ~ 8 ) Grand Vitara and XL-7 Valve Timing .pdf
If the GM variant 3.6, you'd better wait on Lumpylarry to chime in. The more I think about it, that's proly what you are dealing with.
Edit: I just realized that you jumped in on an existing post.
Go here for 2.5 / 2.7 supportive info if you have the earlier engine....
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/1g-1999-2005-vitara-grand-vitara/15338-timing-chain-tensioner-7.html
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/1g-2001-2006-xl-7/25017-timing-chain-tensioner-replacement.html
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/1g-2001-2006-xl-7/20200-sealant-use-suzuki-timing-chain-cover.html
http://www.mediafire.com/file/njnmwj5yjtk/(1 ~ 8 ) Grand Vitara and XL-7 Valve Timing .pdf
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You will first need to identify whether it's a 3rd or 4th design engine before ordering the parts.
Have the service manual and special tools to lock the cams.
Have the service manual and special tools to lock the cams.
Hey, this is the friendliest forum I've ever been on! Thanks guys.
I gave the vin to the parts dept at a local dealership. They sent me some diagrams to go by.
Cam locks I can prob come up with. Just getting at the crank pulley now...haven't seen a keyway like that before.
I gave the vin to the parts dept at a local dealership. They sent me some diagrams to go by.
Cam locks I can prob come up with. Just getting at the crank pulley now...haven't seen a keyway like that before.
Eh.. dunno, He asked me to do it. Its all apart now..
So I'm looking at everything, chains are still on yet till I lock the cams. You recommend just chains then or do you guys do the rails etc as well? I'll be inspecting everything carefully of course.
Tkx
So I'm looking at everything, chains are still on yet till I lock the cams. You recommend just chains then or do you guys do the rails etc as well? I'll be inspecting everything carefully of course.
Tkx
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You can do just the chains.
That's not a keyway, there's another special tool that fits on there to prevent you from rotating backwards "the chains will jump"
There are 2 stages for installing the chains..
After all chains are off you will need to rotate the crank and left cams to position "a".
Do the cams first otherwise if you turn the crank it WILL hit valves.
Once cams are in neutral position then go ahead and turn the crank..
That's not a keyway, there's another special tool that fits on there to prevent you from rotating backwards "the chains will jump"
There are 2 stages for installing the chains..
After all chains are off you will need to rotate the crank and left cams to position "a".
Do the cams first otherwise if you turn the crank it WILL hit valves.
Once cams are in neutral position then go ahead and turn the crank..
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Not trying to be an ass or to take food from your table, but can you tell us the mileage on the vehicle? I presume the owner never took it to the dealer?
The chains (if in good condition) are supposed to last the life of the engine right?
After them being replaced, will they stretch at a faster rate than usual or the problem is only with the OEM chains?
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There are a great bunch of folks on here. We (I) only request one thing.
If you could post some pics, "How To", Tips or lessons learned, that would be GREAT, and would certainly help out with the 3.6 support!
IF you can't host pics on line, I'd be happy to do that for you and I can PM you my e-mail address if you'd like.
You guys are a good bunch, wish I had a Suzuki!
As far as a write up, I'll try to take some pics, but my work is piling up - small garage.
Ya I had allot of trouble with the parts depts wanting to help me at first. Seems they were pretty miffed about the possibility of a warranty.
Car has under 100k and could be covered under warranty if he has all his oil change records (they told me that part only after they knew they weren't getting the job).
I called Suzuki about independent shop work and customer reimbursement - they said no. Called my friend and he said "get the parts, do it" - good friend and more money than allot of folks put together. Car is basically just a toy for him.
Also found out Suzuki has allot of trouble with stocking the chains. One parts guy had a list of GM vehicles that used the same ones and at half the price of Suzuki's. I decided to go with factory for the documentation in case it might be of use later. One cross reference was an 09 Chevy Equinox. ( evidently I have the later engine for 07 Xl-7s btw )
I should have the chains tomorow. Let you guys know how its going. Thanks again!
As far as a write up, I'll try to take some pics, but my work is piling up - small garage.
Ya I had allot of trouble with the parts depts wanting to help me at first. Seems they were pretty miffed about the possibility of a warranty.
Car has under 100k and could be covered under warranty if he has all his oil change records (they told me that part only after they knew they weren't getting the job).
I called Suzuki about independent shop work and customer reimbursement - they said no. Called my friend and he said "get the parts, do it" - good friend and more money than allot of folks put together. Car is basically just a toy for him.
Also found out Suzuki has allot of trouble with stocking the chains. One parts guy had a list of GM vehicles that used the same ones and at half the price of Suzuki's. I decided to go with factory for the documentation in case it might be of use later. One cross reference was an 09 Chevy Equinox. ( evidently I have the later engine for 07 Xl-7s btw )
I should have the chains tomorow. Let you guys know how its going. Thanks again!
Same problem with my 2007 XL7
Hi guys,
Proud to be here and honored to chat with experts like yourself.
I'm from Saudi Arabia. I bought my 2007 XL7 2.5 years ago for the family. All was fine except some reliability problems (CD, back door, indicator, ...etc). Two weeks ago, I came to know that the engine lamb was on and off and there was a voice coming from the engine like Grrr Grrr Grrr when the car is moving. Took it to a workshop and was told that it was the chain and it has to be replaced. We agreed to do that and were surprised to get very high price from SUZUKI for the 3 chains and the oil filter or something. So, the engineer told me that this engine is identical to the 2007 Lumina and that he would get the engine's serial number to make sure that they are the same. Any ways, we managed to get the parts from GM instead of Suzuki. Price was half the price. He fixed them all. When I got the car after one week, the engine lamb was off but the next day it went on again. So, I called the guy and he asked me to try the car for another 1000 km then bring it back to him.
I have a question, lesson to learn and a comment
Question: What do you think of what the engineer told me?
Lesson to learn: I kept my car without changing oil for more than 10,000 KM, don't do it. Change it every 3000 KM.
Comment: This is my last SUZUKI
Thanks,
Hi guys,
Proud to be here and honored to chat with experts like yourself.
I'm from Saudi Arabia. I bought my 2007 XL7 2.5 years ago for the family. All was fine except some reliability problems (CD, back door, indicator, ...etc). Two weeks ago, I came to know that the engine lamb was on and off and there was a voice coming from the engine like Grrr Grrr Grrr when the car is moving. Took it to a workshop and was told that it was the chain and it has to be replaced. We agreed to do that and were surprised to get very high price from SUZUKI for the 3 chains and the oil filter or something. So, the engineer told me that this engine is identical to the 2007 Lumina and that he would get the engine's serial number to make sure that they are the same. Any ways, we managed to get the parts from GM instead of Suzuki. Price was half the price. He fixed them all. When I got the car after one week, the engine lamb was off but the next day it went on again. So, I called the guy and he asked me to try the car for another 1000 km then bring it back to him.
I have a question, lesson to learn and a comment
Question: What do you think of what the engineer told me?
Lesson to learn: I kept my car without changing oil for more than 10,000 KM, don't do it. Change it every 3000 KM.
Comment: This is my last SUZUKI
Thanks,
Have the parts now, but noticing the front bank upper tensioner seems week. The other chains are tight as hell but this one gives quite a bit - rolls the exhast cam when I press down on top. I don't recall if it was that way when i took it apart, but if it leaks down anyway... My codes were P0008 and P0018 if that makes a difference. The parts guy said they did one tensioner out of about 15 jobs there. I'm thinking I might include it. Anyone? Thanks..
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Most codes will clear themselves after several drive cycles IF the problem goes away, and that is what he's thinking.
Without the code number we can't be of much help out here.Is that one hydraulic actuating? If so, it needs to run and build oil pressure for it to extend / tighten the chain.
So, I finished last week. The chains were definetely stretched. You could see it laying them along side each other. Tensioners and rails I left. alldatadiy.com was helpfull only for the timing marks. I pulled the plugs out and put screwdrivers in the holes. I brought the motor to tdc and turned it about 30deg until I could see that all the pistons were about equally away from the valves. Then I locked the cams, pulled off the chains and realesed the cams. As recommended, I then turned the cams so they rested with their timing marks aprox. in the right place (up at least). Slowly I turned the crank to its apropriate relative position and put the chains on matching the colored links with their respective marks on the sprockets. I pulled the pistons out of the tensioners and twisted them into their collapsed, locked position. Once back on I pushed the pivoting guide rail against the tensioner very hard a few times to unlock it. I spun the motor over by hand many times until I could see oil bleeding out from the tensioners then I turned it several more times again.
Now it runs the same as before but the orange light is off.
Thank you very much for all your help! Now I'm a Suzuki expert! hahahaha
Here are my cam 'lock tools' haha. Glad you don't know my real name! haha Thanks again
![Image]()
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Now it runs the same as before but the orange light is off.
Thank you very much for all your help! Now I'm a Suzuki expert! hahahaha
Here are my cam 'lock tools' haha. Glad you don't know my real name! haha Thanks again
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1,269 Posts
three cheers for you!!
job well done.
not exactly a job for the average DIYer eh?
job well done.
not exactly a job for the average DIYer eh?
GM has been busy with this problem
Just went through this myself.
All three timing chains and one of the tensioners.
~1k in parts, ~1.5K in labour. (CDN) (~125000km) Done at a GM shop using GM parts. They will drop the engine, open her up and replace the chains. Said they do a tensioner for one out of every 10.
If you know a GM dealer or mechanic, talk to them about this engine. They do these change outs all the time. I believe there was a bad batch of chains ~2007 that contaminated these engines. This engine is pretty much identical to the LY7 GM engine. All most all of the engine (most of the vehicle actually) docs are direct copies of GM’s service manuals. (Heck, the owner's manual is a GM reprint). It appears GM are also having the same issue on the LLT engine (the new direct injection version of the LY7) and are replacing timing chains at an alarming rate. Just take a look at the Cadillac and Buick forums. The GM guys I talked to mentioned that they have not had another fault until since newer design chains have come out as a replacement.
The LY7 was developed by Cadillac originally and starts showing up in many Cadillac models in 2005. The XL7 engine appears to be identical to the LY7 used in the 2008 Pontiac Torrent GXP. This engine design has been through four different timing chain designs.
If your Suzuki dealer hasn’t seen many of these vehicles (ours has only sold 2) and out are out of warranty and want somebody who’s done many of these jobs, go visit your local Cadillac dealer. Chev, Buick and Pontiac have only started using this engine and it's derivatived in 2008 or so. Cadiallac has had them for a good 5 years.
Just went through this myself.
All three timing chains and one of the tensioners.
~1k in parts, ~1.5K in labour. (CDN) (~125000km) Done at a GM shop using GM parts. They will drop the engine, open her up and replace the chains. Said they do a tensioner for one out of every 10.
If you know a GM dealer or mechanic, talk to them about this engine. They do these change outs all the time. I believe there was a bad batch of chains ~2007 that contaminated these engines. This engine is pretty much identical to the LY7 GM engine. All most all of the engine (most of the vehicle actually) docs are direct copies of GM’s service manuals. (Heck, the owner's manual is a GM reprint). It appears GM are also having the same issue on the LLT engine (the new direct injection version of the LY7) and are replacing timing chains at an alarming rate. Just take a look at the Cadillac and Buick forums. The GM guys I talked to mentioned that they have not had another fault until since newer design chains have come out as a replacement.
The LY7 was developed by Cadillac originally and starts showing up in many Cadillac models in 2005. The XL7 engine appears to be identical to the LY7 used in the 2008 Pontiac Torrent GXP. This engine design has been through four different timing chain designs.
If your Suzuki dealer hasn’t seen many of these vehicles (ours has only sold 2) and out are out of warranty and want somebody who’s done many of these jobs, go visit your local Cadillac dealer. Chev, Buick and Pontiac have only started using this engine and it's derivatived in 2008 or so. Cadiallac has had them for a good 5 years.
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Great advise but this preety much guarantees I will be trading in the XL7 before the warranty is over.
What are the symptoms of this problem? Only the check engine light and the code?
Any sounds from the engine, misfires or anything else noticeable before the check engine light comes on?
Ours has around 38k miles, and 3 yrs, so we have a lot left over on the warranty.
What are the symptoms of this problem? Only the check engine light and the code?
Any sounds from the engine, misfires or anything else noticeable before the check engine light comes on?
Ours has around 38k miles, and 3 yrs, so we have a lot left over on the warranty.
Anything I've seen has been subjective. The only true way I see would be to monitor the camshaft position variance with a good scan tool. This value is calculated for all four cam shafts and is the difference between the commanded cam phase angle and the measured cam phase angle. If the computer measures that both cams are off by the same amount in the same direction for more then 4 continuous seconds or 50 cumulative seconds for two trips then the timing performance code is raised for that bank. If the conditions for this code are not present for four trips, the light will turn off.
As you can see, thing need to be pretty bad for the light to illuminate. If the chains stretch, there will be a period where they are right on the edge of triping the code. This is why some people report the light coming on and off intermittently. A weak tensioner could cause the chain to move around, also triggering the code. Eventually the chains will stretch enough to continuously trigger the code. The code is typically present with other timing related codes, P0008 and P0017 are typical.
I've read somewhere that the algorithm is sensitive enough to catch if one of the chains have been installed one tooth off. I believe this was the original intent of the code to verify the chains were installed correctly after engine work.
GM has a lot of these engines out there. Will it happen to every one, who knows. Most appear to be 2007 and some early 2008 LY7's produced in 2007. There are very few, if any 2008 or 2009 vehicles on the forums with this issue. Same thing with the later LLT engines, seems to be only a certain date range of engines effected.
As you can see, thing need to be pretty bad for the light to illuminate. If the chains stretch, there will be a period where they are right on the edge of triping the code. This is why some people report the light coming on and off intermittently. A weak tensioner could cause the chain to move around, also triggering the code. Eventually the chains will stretch enough to continuously trigger the code. The code is typically present with other timing related codes, P0008 and P0017 are typical.
I've read somewhere that the algorithm is sensitive enough to catch if one of the chains have been installed one tooth off. I believe this was the original intent of the code to verify the chains were installed correctly after engine work.
GM has a lot of these engines out there. Will it happen to every one, who knows. Most appear to be 2007 and some early 2008 LY7's produced in 2007. There are very few, if any 2008 or 2009 vehicles on the forums with this issue. Same thing with the later LLT engines, seems to be only a certain date range of engines effected.
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