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Timing chain replacement - pull the engine or no?

17K views 80 replies 10 participants last post by  rallison203  
#1 ·
I have a 4x4 2000 Grand Vitara with 116k miles on the 2.5L v6. We bought it (cheap!) knowing the tensioner was failing. It still has decent power, and from the sound of it the chain hasn’t jumped. We bought it and parked it, and the parts are on their way. My intention is to replace all the timing components, the water pump, and the oil pump, as well as replace the tranny filter/strainer and fluid. I’ve read through the excellent write-up on the H25 timing chain here on the forum, along with Max's write up of his H25 engine swap, and looked through the service manual instructions on the procedure. It’s a lot of work, but I’m confident in getting it done. (Not my first rodeo with OHC engines.)

Given that I'll be replacing all the timing components as well as the oil pump and water pump, from the write-ups on this site it looks to me like it would be just as easy (possibly easier) to pull the engine rather than deal with all the space constraints if it stays in the engine bay. The added benefit, of course, is I'll be able to check the rear main seal while I'm at it and replace it if need be. (I'm honestly considering just replacing it while I'm in there.) I have an engine hoist and stand and ample tools/space for the job. Am I right that pulling the engine is the sensible route, or have I missed a caveat?

Thanks in advance for the opinions. I was thrilled to find an active forum for these great vehicles. The voice of experience is always a great thing to have available.
 
#31 · (Edited)
You mean the reference to making sure there is support under the trans? I failed to mention that but yes, there will be support under the trans before those last bolts come out. (y)

And yes, I've read through the thread. The thread refers to the removal of the torque converter bolts on your donor engine while on a pallet - if I had that kind of room it would be done already. :) If I'm reading it right your GV has a manual, so you didn't have TC bolts to deal with while the engine was in the truck.
 
#35 ·
Yep, that's me. ;) First we had to wait for parts, then some scheduling stuff got in the way, so we really have only worked on it for two or three days (off and on). If it weren't for these converter bolts the engine would be on a stand right now. o_O
 
#37 ·
Do some thread digging. Pulling the engine with the T/C still attached is another option done by one member. Stuffing it all back in the trans is the difficult part as you would need to rotate the engine with T/C combo by hand to engage into the trans and then additionally into the trans oil pump drive tangs. The two long bell-housing retaining studs aid in this alignment action though.
 
#38 ·
I work on the philosophy of ALWAYS having the t/c in the trans before reassembly. Too easy to bent the input shaft or mash the t/c internals if you try to line stuff up with it bolted to the flexi plate. If you have room and can keep relative alignment, you can split trans and engine with it still attached to the flexi plate.

As for getting the bolts undone, tried a ring spanner and a big hammer? they are loc tited in place and tight!!!
 
#39 ·
I may have to go the route of removing it with the TC, then removing the TC once it's out. I'd put the TC back in the trans before the engine went it.

If I had room for the hammer/spanner option, I'd have room for an impact. :)
 
#40 ·
If I had room for the hammer/spanner option, I'd have room for an impact. :)
ring spammer (closed end wrench in 'murrican" ) are about 8" long, allows the end of it to get below bell housing to give the "open" end of it a smack with a FBH (you should work that one out heheh)
 
#41 ·
Well, I've finally gotten the engine out. Bolts that haven't moved in 20 years conspired with the really cramped quarters in the engine bay (as well as just life getting in the way), so it took way longer than I had intended. Anyway, it's finally out. I ended up dropping the front differential to get better access to the torque converter bolts. They were fun. o_O

Anyway, I noted that due to the copious timing chain related oil leaks, at least one of the the mount bushings on the front axle have been soaked in oil for quite some time. I'd like to replace them when I reassemble everything, but I'm having a hard time finding replacements. I've only been able to find one set of replacements, and I want to make sure they're the right parts.

What I have found are parts made by Febest, part numbers SZAB-007 (the puck for the rear mount point, OEM 27561-60A01), SZAB-042 (the bushing for the driver side mount, OEM 27550-52D00), and SZAB-010 (the bushing for the passenger side mount, OEM 27550-60A00). I've found them at a very good price on Amazon, but how is the quality from this supplier?
 
#42 ·
I bought sway bar links from that supplier last year and they were correct for the application. From what I can tell the quality seemed just fine too.
 
#47 ·
As noted above, I have the engine out and have begun the process of cleaning up the oil and crud before pulling off the timing cover. That process is a lot easier with the engine on a stand! I had left the power steering pump and alternator attached when pulling the engine, so I got those pulled off last night. The last thing I was going to do before calling it quits for the evening was pulling the harmonic balancer / crank pulley. :eek:

Having pulled the balancer on other cars before, I knew the bolt would be pretty tight, but figured it would be no big deal with an impact wrench. Can't be THAT tight, right? I hit it with my impact last night for ten minutes or so, and it didn't budge. I soaked it down with Liquid Wrench and called it a night. I hope it will be more cooperative with a good soak in penetrating oil, but frankly since every bolt on this thing has fought me, I'm not holding my breath. My impact is an old Craftsman, supposedly with a 340 ft-lb output, but honestly it's 30 years old and could use a rebuild. (A rebuild I'd be glad to give it if I could even find parts for it, but they don't seem to be available anymore.) It wouldn't surprise me if the thing is doing more like 250 ft-lbs, which I'd hope would be enough, but it clearly wasn't enough last night. I may be looking at a new impact for Christmas, I guess.

Anyway, any recommendations on how to get a reluctant crank pulley bolt loose with the engine on a stand? I'd have used the "kick the starter over with a breaker bar attached" trick before pulling the engine, but the timing chain sounded bad enough I wanted to avoid starting the engine at all costs. With most bolts I'd try caressing it with a hammer to loosen it up...but that would be a bad idea on the crankshaft. For that matter, I'd rather not lay on it with an impact wrench for too long.
 
#51 ·
lock crank at flywheel end (i actually take flywheel or flexi plate off and bolt a lump of steel between the crank and bell housing) and a 3/4" drive socket, breaker bar and a 4' length of pipe. They are tight.

You will need a couple of people to help as you can tip the stand over very easily.
 
#52 ·
Thanks 2013GV. That's the direction I was headed. Fortunately my stand is more stable than many I've seen - the base is U-shaped instead of T-shaped. With that said, it's pretty tall so I'll definitely be careful of tipping!

Obviously the pic is from before I took off the PS pump, alternator, and the water pump pulley. It clearly had a bad oil leak for a long time. :( I have a lot of cleaning to do.
95006
 
#53 ·
before you remove the crank pulley, spray a good soap based degreaser on, paint brush to work it in, block holes as required and hose off with a running garden hose.
 
#56 ·
Yep, there will be a lot of cleaning going on. I forgot that the balancer goes into the seal on the timing chain cover. I'm glad you folks brought that up. Granted, the oil pan's already off and the timing chain cover is coming off, too...but no reason to let the crud get in there in the first place.