[MIPS]

The fun that never ended....

Continuation from here and here.

To date:
-Computer was replaced (with one from the automatic model, in February 2012)
-Timing belt was changed (february 2012)
-Valves were adjusted (2012)
-Head gasket was replaced and head resurfaced (2012)
-O2 sensor was replaced (Summer 2012)
-Oil was changed (last month)
-Coolant was changed (2012)
-PQ valve was replaced (2012)
-EGR was removed and cleaned (April 2013)
-Air filter was replaced (March 2013)
-Timing was set (2012 and again today)
-Distributor and rotor were replaced (summer 2012)
-All vacuum lines and camps were replaced (April 2013)
-Plugs regapped (April 2013)

The injector has been given one bottle of STP injector cleaner.

In cold environments the engine still bogs when cold, when hot the engine knocks when under heavy load and at all times the exhaust has excess moisture and soot which indicate a slightly rich mixture. Oil and coolant levels remain stable. The water temp never goes past half however even though the thermostat is not stuck the car takes forever to warm up when it's cold outside.

 

[Nathan.]

Don't quote me on this because I'm no pro, but one idea could be rods/pistons/bearings may need to be rebalanced (if thats possible)? Since you've got a rich mixture I'd check out the fuel pump/filter first.
I'd also consider some shiny NEW valves all the way around as well. Mileage?

 

[JDM Jimny in CDN]

Have you ever checked your grounds?
If the signals from your sensors aren't grounded properly, your ECU is gonna get confused. It may throw a code or not.
Any vehicle that age is bound to have some corrosion on the grounding points, especially up in winter salty 'loops!
I would try removing every ground one at a time, cleaning/or replacing the ring terminals, cleaning the grounding points with a wire brush, get some nice clean metal, re-instal and use some corrosion protection like glyptal on it.

Pay special attention to where your ECU is grounded. It may be a good idea to measure it out with a multi meter as well. Measure from the sensor ground to the ECU ground. and from the neg battery term to the ECU ground, as well as the engine block and Intake mani. You shouldn't see any more than 1-10 ohms.
I trouble shoot electrical on Commercial vehicles for a certain bus company... Bad grounds are very common.

 

[MIPS]

The harness was completely checked after a nasty accident where the battery was reinstalled backwards (blowing just about all my fuses in the process) and something started slowly draining the battery when the car was not in use. Turned out to be the amp under my seat had dome something weird and replaced it but I also found damage to the beam relay from corrosion. I heavily checked the ECU harness and it seemed to be in good order.
Aside from a cylinder pressure check I have no idea what condition the internals are like. The guy who replaced my gasket didn't see any problems either when he replaced my valve oil seals. I've just been crossing my fingers that the rings are doing good and by no abnormalities in crankcase pressure I should be doing okay.

 

[Bex]

Sorry, didn't read ay of your links, but perhaps a couple of issues...the fact that your car takes 'forever' to warm up would be one.
Aside from the things that you have replaced (and it looks like the coolant temp sensor was not one of them), you may want to advise exactly what your car does from cold start - idle, idle dropping, etc. Also you may want to do a compression test, and post your resulte (gas pedal at wide open throttle when cranking) to confirm your timing. Also, it is not unusual to have to clean the EGR a number of times before the circuit is truly clean. Rather than STP, I think that Techron is a better additive. Timing may be one of your issues, and presumably the engine is timed to #4 and the ignition timed to #1 firing.

 

[Dayton86]

One thing I don't see on your list that has given me similar problems in the past is the coolant temp sensor for the computer. I would check it with a multimeter or ohmmeter and compare it to the chart on fix kick's page and make sure its within spec. Also you are saying it takes a long time to warm up. Can you give more details? Mine gets full warm in under 3/4 pf a mile or earlier now that its summer and in the winter it was full warm in under a mile.

Good luck in figuring it out.

 

[MIPS]

I'm going to have to look over that KickFix page. I didn't know it existed and it looks pretty good.

When I mean it takes forever, during the winter it took something like 10km before I was getting warm air (not hot) out of the heater core and any real needle activity. In the summer this goes down to about 3-5km. I already took the thermostat out and it is not stuck open or installed backwards either. A flush didn't find any problems and the water pump was replaced in 2012. I've been trying to find a new temperature sensor since my major overheat in 2011 but I can't seem to source one oddly. I ordered a new thermostat three months ago and I'm still waiting on the shop to call and say it's in. I'm at the point where I'll go in and ask where the hell my parts are.

 

[Bex]

I don't know where you are located, but Rock Auto should have most of the things you are looking for. With regard to the thermostat, it is essential that you use the correct gasket, and that the thermostat is not floating around the housing. If you have the deep housing, you will need a 5mm rubber gasket, that does not come with the thermostat. You can also order new parts direct from the dealer - Southwest Suzuki has an online catalog and are very good to deal with. DO NOT source your parts using 'Tracker' which is poorly supported. You are driving a rebadged 1992 Suzuki Sidekick, and parts are available if you source it that way.
In the meantime, I would do a compression test and post your results. It does not make sense to diagnose anything without the confirmation that the engine timing is correct.

 

[MIPS]

In the meantime, I would do a compression test and post your results. It does not make sense to diagnose anything without the confirmation that the engine timing is correct.

You have been hounding me on this for the last three threads.
The timing was reset again YESTERDAY and every time I pressure check the cylinders I have to borrow the tool off a friend but okay dammit, to satisfy you I'll head down to Princess Auto and buy one of the damn things for myself, get the readings you oh so desire and post them. Happy?

 

[Rhinoman]

Have you had the fuel pressure checked?

 

[Bex]

You have been hounding me on this for the last three threads.
The timing was reset again YESTERDAY and every time I pressure check the cylinders I have to borrow the tool off a friend but okay dammit, to satisfy you I'll head down to Princess Auto and buy one of the damn things for myself, get the readings you oh so desire and post them. Happy?

Sorry...suit yourself, then. As we cannot see the car, the best way for online diagnosis is to make sure that the car was timed/tuned properly. How are we supposed to know? You have a long list of replacement parts in the car so you obviously want it to run properly. Don't you want to know the actual health of the engine and the timing? 'Timing was set' doesn't necessarily mean timing was set correctly, no??

 

[MIPS]

Don't you want to know the actual health of the engine and the timing? 'Timing was set' doesn't necessarily mean timing was set correctly, no??

Between aligning all timing marks, checking with a light and making sure the distributor was good there is not much else I am aware of that I can set aside from the camshaft which would of been set once when the timing belt was replaced and again when the head was resurfaced.

Have you had the fuel pressure checked?

No. It has not.
So anyways, to answer that question about cylinder pressure, here you go:

These all saw at least seven cranks with the engine warm.
All the plugs looked the same and were gapped to the spec in the Haynes service manual.

I also for the hell of it tried seeing if Canadian Tire would have anything. Amazingly they did actually have parts so I bought a new thermostat and guage temperature sensor (they did not have the ECU's water temp sensor)

Turns out that the little brass valve thingy has vanished from mine.

Sure hope it isn't anywhere important....

The ECU water temp sensor can be seen with the green connector and the probe barely visible inside the cavity.

According to the curve at around 107f which is where my sensor was around (checked with IR thermometer) I was seeing 1560 ohms which seems off.

After replacing the guage sensor and the thermostat I took the car for a drive mainly up a mountain and then back down. IT seems now I can't get it past the cold line on the guage so something did indeed change.

Also, like I mentioned before about moisture, to show how much there is you can clearly see condensation build up on the ground if you leave the car to idle in one spot for a few minutes.

Okay, so now at least we have a suspected inaccurate water temp sensor.

 

[Rhinoman]

Compression is way too low. Its very even though so I suspect that when they did the head they got the valve timing wrong, either that or the crank keyway is shot.

 

[MIPS]

Or the fitting for the pressure guage isn't firmly screwed in. I have no tools to tighten it so all I could do was twist the hose and torque it in. Can't access the camshaft and valves until I replace sever seized screws holding the intake on the throttle body.

Edited: OH, wow. Yeah, I'm almost 100psi off the standard reading.

 

[aquanaut20]

With the even readings across the deck, an ill fitting connection is not the issue,,

x2,, either the crank key is sheared or the cam timing is off.... Philip

 

[MIPS]

Very well, I'll work at getting at the camshaft and see what can be done and get back to you.

 

[aquanaut20]

Very well, I'll work at getting at the camshaft and see what can be done and get back to you.

You need to verify the CRANK snout/cog first. Engine timing start there... Philip

 

[MIPS]

Well if the timing belt has to come off anyways, I got no reason NOT to peek at that, eh?

 

[Bex]

The torque of the crank pulley bolt should be 94 ft/lbs. If you find it is appreciably less, you will have to remove the crank pulley to check the keyway. If there is damage there, there is a loctite fix on the forum that has been pretty successful. If you look at the manuals in the stickies, you can see how to properly time the car. The engine timing is done to cylinder #4 firing. The ignition to cylinder #1 firing. And the car fires 1-3-4-2. You may find an E and an A mark (or 60 and 80 mark) on the cam pulley. You use the E or 60. Your rotor rotates clockwise, by the way, and the rotor should only fit on one way - not three as cheaper knock-offs do.
The proper compression for your car should be 170+ on each cylinder on a warm engine. Presumably you did the compression test with the gas pedal floored while cranking.
And dump the Haynes - the timing info in it is incorrect for our cars. Look at the manuals in the stickies or search the forum.
Oh, by the way, I'm happy now.....

 

[MIPS]

Presumably you did the compression test with the gas pedal floored while cranking.

No I did not and I realized that during class today that I didn't and I was a straight retard.
I have to replace the water temp sensor tonight along with a hose so I'll try again when I get back form the test drive.