dash message says turn steering wheel to unlock, which you can't do.

Typically what is needed is to rock the steering from side to side to release the pressure on the lock plunger so it can retract. - your getting out and back in the car will rock the car causing a similar shift to occur.

 

thanks for that, worked out i can shove it around a degree or 2, but that may just be to the stop, but you literally cant do that with no power steering, plus that's not the problem, just the stupid dash warning message. the ignition system is immobilised.

 

What does the dash warning message say? Is there a message other than turn steering wheel to unlock? That is not a problem with the immobilizer per se, it is a problem with the steering lock.

 

didn't notice at first, but when i cant start, there is also a yellow key symbol on top rh cnr of dash display. this is immobiliser warning. it stays on even when ive shut it down. the steering lock is part of immobiliser sequence. it simply wont start and comes up with the steering message. sometimes my lock, manually unlock procedure works first or second time, sometimes i have 20 to 30 tries b4 key symbol disappears n then it'll start. the immobiliser receiver must be fluctuating n if i hop in when its not working, im going nowhere till it works again, this has happened 40 to 50 times over 3 years, but I've had 3-4 months no issue, then out of the blue, here we go again.

 

Yes, the steering lock is controlled from the immobilizer, BUT, before you can get the "turn steering wheel to unlock" message, the immobilizer has to recognize the presence of the key - if it doesn't it will not try to unlock the steering.

The yellow key symbol, which is only now being mentioned, does indicate an immobilizer related problem, but the turn steering wheel to unlock message does not - there can be many reasons why the system doesn't sense the presence of the key, for example, RF interference, even other RF transponders in the immediate vicinity can cause issues - if you have multiple car keys on the same ring (I do), then try using just the one key and see what happens.

 

i have a RF background, no interference, same on 2 fobs w fresh batteries, whilst running "no fob message" came up briefly while engine was running. presume if the Bluetooth ignition receiver id fluctuating it makes nom difference whilst running. but cant start till it does, everything else functions expect ignition. till it does again. was hoping someone's been thru this b4, cant be my car alone in the world. note, this is from first ever shipment of this model into aus, aug 11 build, nov 11 1st reg. bought it 20 months old w 95k in the clock, had been a reps car, all on the open road. done 220kk now. this is first problem ever, am i looking at replacing half the cars electronics, or a receiver module.

 

Forgive me for asking, but how does your "RF background" tell you that there is no interference - have you actually gotten out a spectrum analyzer and checked?
If you had, I think one of the things you would/should have discovered is that bluetooth is not a part of this equation.

Just so you're aware of it - the transponder in your key is completely passive. Yes, I know the fob has a battery, but did you know that you can start the car with a dead key fob battery or even no battery in the fob? That battery is for the keyless entry aspect of the fob and the immobilizer is not dependent on it.

 

I assumed the fob communicated with immobiliser via bluetooth, some kind of proximity sensor, what is it magnetic? all i know is it fails to do this sometimes and if engine not already running, wont unlock, at various random times and places. ,leaving me stuck.

 

Its not using Bluetooth its a 434 or 315 mhz digitally coded rf pulse train.
Usually 315 for north America and 434 for rest of the world. That communicates with the security module via several antennas around the car if yours has the door request buttons and keyless start, or via 1 main centre antenna if purely keyless entry. This is bi directional in keyless start models, the security module polls for a valid transponder code from the fob. Gets the valid code blue key on dash, car us good to go. Invalid code, yellow key.
RFID antenna around the ignition barrel to detect passive chip in key.
Depending on model, if engine is running, or ign is in acc position the lock and unlock buttons are disabled on the remote to stop random locking/unlocking if a button is pressed.


Now for the basics, have you cleaned the battery contacts with a decent pencil eraser? One of the old red ones on the school penciks works best. If you're not getting a decent contact, the polling response from the fob can be too weak for the car to detect. (Assuming yours is bi directional)
Read the owners manual too, seen too many people put the wrong battery code in the fobs. Manual should also tell you the dead spots where not to have the fob too. In the 3rd gen, the centre cup holder us a known dead spot and can cause issues.

Hope this helps shed some light on possible things to check.

 

thanks, wow uhf pulse codes, (RF frequency band allocation are 1 of the few internationally cooperated schemes world wide) Mine is keyless start, when immobilised even with fob touching start button still wont work, original fobs with new 2032 batteries cleaned with alcohol based wipes recently, main battery replaced last year with cleaned and petrol gel greased contacts. looking thru other threads on this forum, others are having same problem, being described variously, all 2011 models.

I could be wrong, but I believe the 315/434 MHz frequencies are used by the key fobs, the immobilizer transponder systems uses a much lower frequency which is not country specific.

Below is an excerpt from one of my owner's manuals outlining some of the causes of interference.

View attachment 103800

sorry for dragging this on but fascinating, like i said frequency band allocation, is done for specific function/technologies so that its consistent around the world for obvious reasons, hence other vehicles using this freq for fob transmission may interfere with mine, but don'+t get why "the immobilizer transponder systems uses a much lower frequency" is relevant when the immobiliser receiver has to be the same frequency as the fob transmitter to work, or it dont. all frequencies are allocated world wide for certain purposes, HF, UHF, cellphone gen 2, 3 4 5 wifi bluetooth, microwave all of em, so that the equipment using then can be manufactured n sold to universal markets, just saying.

 

I could be wrong, but I believe the 315/434 MHz frequencies are used by the key fobs, the immobilizer transponder systems uses a much lower frequency which is not country specific.

Below is an excerpt from one of my owner's manuals outlining some of the causes of interference.

 

Try cleaning the battery contacts with a old school pencil eraser, verdigris is common and alcohol wipes wont remove it.

 

so what deactivates the immobiliser? because that's where I believe my problem is sand I'm not the only 1 having this issue.

 

I'm not certain that you do in fact have an immobilizer issue, and I've prepared a short video (1 minute) to explain why - the video is done in a Nissan Navara because none of my Suzukis have push button start, two have immobilizers, one of them does have keyless start, but it's not a push button start.

The "start sequence" is going to be triggered when the start button is pushed - the immobilizer is going to begin by looking for an authorized key, and if it doesn't see one, you'll get a message to that effect - the form the message takes can vary with the type of dash - your car should have a display similar to the one in the Navara.

If there is an immobilizer failure, for example it's not communicating with the rest of the electronics, or the rest of the electronics, don't recognize the immobilizer as an authorized unit, the message will be different, most likely something along the lines of "service start system" which you are not getting.

When I try to start the Navara without the fob in it, I get the "No key detected" message - as far as I can tell, you're not getting that, you're getting a "Turn steering wheel to unlock" message - and what that says to me is that your immobilizer has recognized that an authorized key is present - your problem is coming further down in the start sequence.

Incidentally, the video was made to demonstrate two things - the second being that the immobilizer function is completely passive (from the key transponder point of view) and separate from the keyless entry function - you're going to see me start the truck using a keyfob from which the battery has been removed, effectively disabling the keyless entry system.

What I'm going to suggest you do is try starting your car without having the fob in the vehicle - look at the error message that you get - it's not going to attempt to unlock the steering if it doesn't recognize an authorized key - as long as the sequence of events changes when the key/fob is in the vehicle, you'll know that the system recognizes the key and you can stop focusing on the immobilizer.

If the "Turn steering wheel to unlock" message is a consistent one, then perhaps take a closer look at the steering lock - it's either not releasing or the system doesn't know that it has released - you don't hear it in the video, because the radio came on, but the Navara also has a solenoid style steering lock which is controlled by the start system.

 

If its keyless start it it will immobilise if it can't detect the fob in the car. Without sticking a decent scan tool on it and lloking at the immobiliser data as the fob comes within range I cant tell you what's going on with your one.

 

Hey there, did you solve this issue? I'm having the same problem in my Suzuki Swift year model 2010. Just without the steering wheel issue. Sometimes the immobilizer lamp is on in the dashboard, and then the car will not start. Sometimes waiting a while helps, or opening different doors trying to start helps, or sometimes nothing helps, and I've had to push the car into start with gear on. But that has happened only once. Generally though, when the yellow light is on, the car won't start.

 

You have a different vehicle and your symptoms are different - for the thread starter that steering wheel message clearly identifies the cause of his problem. Start your own thread in the Swift section of the forum and tell us what your symptoms are.

 

I will do this, thanks!

 

anyone has any solution to this??

 

You've posted in two DIFFERENT threads, in DIFFERENT sections of the forum, so DIFFERENT vehicles, with VERY DIFFERENT symptoms - the only common thing is that both are immobilizer issues - you need to start your own thread, you need to provide us with details of the vehicle, and the details of the symptoms you're experiencing.

 

Hi there, I am getting the same issue in kizashi 2011. Now realised I have my outlander and kizashi fobs on the same key ring and this could be the issue. The car not starting doesn't happen all the time. Majority of time car starts with no problem, and when both fobs are in the car. Great thread and appreciate the input.

 

Hi there, I am getting the same issue in kizashi 2011.

Do me a favor please - read the thread from top to bottom and see how many different issues are mentioned - which one are you having? If it's the first one, with the "turn steering wheel to unlock message", it has nothing to do with how many fobs are in the car.

On a weekend when I'm cleaning cars, cleaning the yard, I routinely get into any one of five vehicles, all immobilizer equipped with all five fobs on me, I have multiple fobs on the same ring - it's never caused me a problem.

 

You were right. The separation of fobs did not work. Bizarrely, the rocking of the car has done the trick. So far each time the issue has presented, I have resolved the issue by rocking the car.