[2013GV]

Serpentine ribbed belts tend to fail catastrophically due to their design, and I have had them fail 400 km's after a check where they looked fine and had no signs of fraying.

Due to the tensions involved, if only 1 strand in the belt backing lets go, the belt starts to bend perpendicular to the ribs making it ride hard against one side of the pulley ribs causing fast wear and heating. This results in a vicious cycle and the belt failing in short order. Most will snap and flick off, but some will strip into 2 or more sections which will then disintegrate and take out things in the vicinity like hoses, covers and in one case I have seen, the radiator hose.

Taking out a cam belt while uncommon, has happened to me, but on a mitsubishi 4G63 motor when the A/C compressor siezed and flicked the belt off and thru the cam belt cover.

However, I also had a 2 litre ford cortina that did 60,000 kms mostly on dirt roads with no cam belt cover because I got sick of stones getting stuck under the cover and never lost a belt. Those covers were never great and a lot of the belt was exposed both at the top and bottom.

grit and items trapped in the ribs will also cause rapid failure.

 

[2013GV]

I'm going for a blow through pipe as soon as I'm out of warranty)

be very careful and make sure you fit one with a comparable back pressure to the DPF unit and you will need to get the ECU modified to stop limp home from happening when it can't sense a "burn" occurring.

the back pressure issue is important because the turbo's fitted to these engines are known to over rev and fail if theres less restriction in the exhausts.

We have DPF units on most of our newer diesel fleet both cars and trucks and never have issues except for those drivers that do short runs and shut them off mid burn. Do a manual burn when needed and you will have no issues.

Remember to use the correct low ash oil.

 

[ratoftheswamp]

I Know Your Pain

Hello,
This is my first post here, but I had to say that I have had a very similar experience with my 2008 Diesel GV. I've owned it for two whole weeks now and the relationship hasn't all been smooth sailing. One week in, I am driving through some back streets and change into second (nowhere near 4k RPM but that's only because I was too afraid to test it just yet) and the car suddenly sounds like a tractor. I pull over, look under the bonnet, and while the accessory belt hadn't let go, it had shed one rib off the belt closest to the motor. I'm no mechanic, but I know enough about cars to be sure that wasn't causing the noise.

The engine still had power and I drove the car home for a better look, checked fluids, fuel, turbo, no smoke from the exhaust, no errors from the ECU, then as a last resort removed the top timing cover and was greeted with a mess of rubber and thread from the accessory belt inside the cover. The timing belt was in okay condition and the engine turned without interference so I was left wondering if this junk had caused the timing belt to slip just enough to make it sound knocky, but not enough to destroy the engine.

I tracked down a manual thanks to this excellent forum and checked the timing and it appeared to be well out. With the camshaft at it's timing mark the crank was almost 90 degrees from TDC. This could mean bent valves left right and center, but the engine still made power? I timed it by the pulleys then turn it over by hand and soon hit a dead end. At this point I seriously considered trying my luck with the dealer warranty. Being new years day I couldn't get a hold of anyone so I decided to wash those dirty thoughts out of my head with foamy beverage and do some more exploring.

I removed the camshaft cover as I figured a bent valve might cause the lifter to sit lower with a significant gap between it and the cam shaft. Checking back to the manual all seemed fine with the lifters and valves. What I did find is that the camshaft pulley was not properly aligned with the shaft itself. With renewed enthusiasm I set the timing by the camshaft and ignored the pulley, turned it over by hand 1, 2, 3, 4 revolutions clean as a whistle. Put it back together and it starts and runs as quietly and smoothly as it ever has.

I left the timing cover off, and it's still running with the same 4-ribbed accessory belt (just picked up the new one then =S). So apart from the misaligned cam pulley (can a guru tell me how much of an issue this will cause for the camshaft angle sensor?) on my motor our issue seems to be identical, even down to one rib tearing off the belt. I did a lot of reading before buying this car and was aware of the number of people with DPF and timing belt issues. I get over 80km/h on my way to and from work so I was not worried about the DPF and everyone with timing belt issues seemed to have done 75000+kms so I resolved to replace it every 60000kms as it's not that expensive or difficult to do yourself. To me if you are aware of a reliability issue, it becomes a maintenance issue. I do wonder how many of these "timing belt failures" were actually caused by this same accessory belt issue.

To wrap up this novel, I still love the car. To me it is the perfect compromise of suburban-car-park-ability and serious-weekend-escape-ability. I love the look, the ride, the seats, the torque, and the space. If I have to pay a little more attention to the motor to have that then I am happy to do so. I'll fabricate a new, gap-free timing cover; replace both belts and make sure nothing could be causing the accessory belt to fail early, to be sure and hope to sit back and enjoy the show. To anyone that took the time to read this, thank you for making my second day back at work have some purpose and I wish you a happy new year.

 

[Oldtrack]

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for sharing that rat.
I guess the name of the game is maintenance, and i'm glad yours had a fairly good ending.

 

[Dorset Driver]

Just before New year, the wife starts the car in the driveway to go to work, starts and runs, warms up, and then switches it off. Comes out to start the car again to go to work - will not start. Turns the engine over several times, still will not start.

Yes, you know what I'm about to write next. On inspection the serpentine belt has split a groove, with the thread/groove going in through the cam belt cover to snap the cam belt, and jam around the inside of the pulley. How? The split trailing through the engine compartment at idle.

Apart from my culpability - there was wear on the serpentine that I should have picked up, it had a full service in march and nothing mentioned for attention, and the crap design of a cover that didn't cover, that left the engine for inspection. Quotes for a whole block, with or without turbos and pumps coming in around the cost of whole replacement secondhand car when adding belts lifts gaskets etc, oh and labour.

An obvious bent valve but a rebuild - replace guides and valves, and skim if required, pistons so far seem fine, will be checking crank etc.

BTW, that engine compartment is seriously cramped.

 

[Paul82]

Hello,
This is my first post here, but I had to say that I have had a very similar experience with my 2008 Diesel GV. I've owned it for two whole weeks now and the relationship hasn't all been smooth sailing. One week in, I am driving through some back streets and change into second (nowhere near 4k RPM but that's only because I was too afraid to test it just yet) and the car suddenly sounds like a tractor. I pull over, look under the bonnet, and while the accessory belt hadn't let go, it had shed one rib off the belt closest to the motor. I'm no mechanic, but I know enough about cars to be sure that wasn't causing the noise.

The engine still had power and I drove the car home for a better look, checked fluids, fuel, turbo, no smoke from the exhaust, no errors from the ECU, then as a last resort removed the top timing cover and was greeted with a mess of rubber and thread from the accessory belt inside the cover. The timing belt was in okay condition and the engine turned without interference so I was left wondering if this junk had caused the timing belt to slip just enough to make it sound knocky, but not enough to destroy the engine.

I tracked down a manual thanks to this excellent forum and checked the timing and it appeared to be well out. With the camshaft at it's timing mark the crank was almost 90 degrees from TDC. This could mean bent valves left right and center, but the engine still made power? I timed it by the pulleys then turn it over by hand and soon hit a dead end. At this point I seriously considered trying my luck with the dealer warranty. Being new years day I couldn't get a hold of anyone so I decided to wash those dirty thoughts out of my head with foamy beverage and do some more exploring.

I removed the camshaft cover as I figured a bent valve might cause the lifter to sit lower with a significant gap between it and the cam shaft. Checking back to the manual all seemed fine with the lifters and valves. What I did find is that the camshaft pulley was not properly aligned with the shaft itself. With renewed enthusiasm I set the timing by the camshaft and ignored the pulley, turned it over by hand 1, 2, 3, 4 revolutions clean as a whistle. Put it back together and it starts and runs as quietly and smoothly as it ever has.

I left the timing cover off, and it's still running with the same 4-ribbed accessory belt (just picked up the new one then =S). So apart from the misaligned cam pulley (can a guru tell me how much of an issue this will cause for the camshaft angle sensor?) on my motor our issue seems to be identical, even down to one rib tearing off the belt. I did a lot of reading before buying this car and was aware of the number of people with DPF and timing belt issues. I get over 80km/h on my way to and from work so I was not worried about the DPF and everyone with timing belt issues seemed to have done 75000+kms so I resolved to replace it every 60000kms as it's not that expensive or difficult to do yourself. To me if you are aware of a reliability issue, it becomes a maintenance issue. I do wonder how many of these "timing belt failures" were actually caused by this same accessory belt issue.

To wrap up this novel, I still love the car. To me it is the perfect compromise of suburban-car-park-ability and serious-weekend-escape-ability. I love the look, the ride, the seats, the torque, and the space. If I have to pay a little more attention to the motor to have that then I am happy to do so. I'll fabricate a new, gap-free timing cover; replace both belts and make sure nothing could be causing the accessory belt to fail early, to be sure and hope to sit back and enjoy the show. To anyone that took the time to read this, thank you for making my second day back at work have some purpose and I wish you a happy new year.

Just before New year, the wife starts the car in the driveway to go to work, starts and runs, warms up, and then switches it off. Comes out to start the car again to go to work - will not start. Turns the engine over several times, still will not start.

Yes, you know what I'm about to write next. On inspection the serpentine belt has split a groove, with the thread/groove going in through the cam belt cover to snap the cam belt, and jam around the inside of the pulley. How? The split trailing through the engine compartment at idle.

Apart from my culpability - there was wear on the serpentine that I should have picked up, it had a full service in march and nothing mentioned for attention, and the crap design of a cover that didn't cover, that left the engine for inspection. Quotes for a whole block, with or without turbos and pumps coming in around the cost of whole replacement secondhand car when adding belts lifts gaskets etc, oh and labour.

An obvious bent valve but a rebuild - replace guides and valves, and skim if required, pistons so far seem fine, will be checking crank etc.

BTW, that engine compartment is seriously cramped.

WOW.... Another 2!!.... Sorry to sear that!

Its happening to others! I knew it... But such is the design flaw, I'm not surprised!

Its been happening to many others in Europe over the past 18 years!


Mine is still sitting at the dealer, waiting for the reply from Consumer Protection to make Suzuki fix it.

I've decided not to sell it, I test drove another car, didn't like it & reminded me how much I love my GV.
I'll just have to keep a close eye on the serpentine belt, Change it every 40K or so...

 

[Zooks4life]

i should change mine i have 70k on it now and a brand new spare in the boot. In mines defense, it should of imploded already givin how much stick its been through.

 

[*Kiwi]

...I'll just have to keep a close eye on the serpentine belt, Change it every 40K or so...

Sounds like that's the key despite that there are apparently two design problems present. But, no accessory belt breakage = no problem.

For what it's worth under "normal" use the mid-2008+ FSM calls out a change of both belts at 75,000 km. Under "severe" conditions ("driving on rough, muddy or dusty roads") it's 30,000 for the accessory belt and 45,000 for the timing belt.

 

[Paul82]

i should change mine i have 70k on it now and a brand new spare in the boot. In mines defense, it should of imploded already givin how much stick its been through.

YES CHANGE IT NOW!!

Because before you knew this you would have thought, broken Serpentine belt, No big deal... But It actually IS a big deal, it can hit the timing belt & kill your engine!

Sounds like that's the key despite that there are apparently two design problems present. But, no accessory belt breakage = no problem.

For what it's worth under "normal" use the mid-2008+ FSM calls out a change of both belts at 75,000 km. Under "severe" conditions ("driving on rough, muddy or dusty roads") it's 30,000 for the accessory belt and 45,000 for the timing belt.

Sweet! That's very good to know, I'm going to change it every 40K I think.

 

[Paul82]

Ive attached the photos the dealer took of my timing cover & belt being 2 teeth out.

The first photo he is pointing to the gap at the bottom of the cover where the fragment of serpentine belt got caught up in the timing belt & made it jump 2 teeth.

That do you think the chances are of making some sort of aluminium cover to fit across the bottom of the timing cover to protect the belt from broken serpentine belt fragments? :huh:

 

[*Kiwi]

I have looked the images of that area in several documents and it seems to me the basic problem is that the accessory pulley seems to be mounted tight up against the timing belt pulley, so there is no gap to provide a guard.

The only option I can see is to cut away the plastic area (where the finger is pointing) and substitute a steel arc that runs very close to the accessory pulley flange, say within 0.5mm.

It doesn't help that the accessory belt is routed over the top of it's pulley, contrary to most other engines (that I'm aware of.)

Overall I don't see an easy solution and I think the best option is (as you say) monitor the belt condition carefully and ensure you have the splash panels (or substitutes) in place. The underside of the accessory pulley could be vulnerable to catching pebbles at the left, in the area where (I assume) the turbo oil drain pipe is.

If you get a chance to take more photos, take some with the plastic guard in place, and another with the pulley in place additionally so the gap can be seen.

 

[Paul82]

Wow very interesting! & just as I suspected too.. Not an easy fix...

Yes I'll definitely take photos one I get the car back, thanks for the info!

 

[Dorset Driver]

An aftermarket accessory would be a must, even a factory fix/part, but I suspect thats not going to happen

Change the serpentine at 30k + km and timing 45k + km, each at 250gbp+ a time. We are talking engine removal, or the front of the car

Someone is having a serious giggle at the owners expense.

Thats 20k+ miles and 30k+ miles

Mileage thats easily done in a year, if not 18 months.

If I'd have known that I wpuld have laughed all the way to the Nissan dealer and asked to be pointed at the Qashqai's

 

[k44rll]

If I'd have known that I would have laughed all the way to the Nissan dealer and asked to be pointed at the Qashqai's

.....which also uses a Renault engine with it's fair share of problems as well

Karl

 

[Dorset Driver]

Is there any vehicle that Renault do not provide an engine for?:lol:

My point is, are these other vehicles having the same problems will reliability that is appearing with GV's.

it would appear not.

guess I better keep walking past the Nissan dealer, heading for the Land Rover dealer.....

 

[k44rll]

It is a common issue across the board in the motor industry, mixing and matching different manufacturers engines and transmissions very rarely works
I have owned way too many Suzuki 4x4's for the last 30 years and never had any issues, then again I have only ever had Suzuki petrol engines and Suzuki's built in Japan, not Spain, Canada, India or Hungary where a lot have been built as of late

It has always been well known that until Suzuki develops a diesel engine you should always buy a petrol engine (which will never happen with the diesel car engine being banned in Japan)

I work in the motor trade and trust me owning a Land Rover you will soon be on first name terms with their warranty department

Karl

 

[Dorset Driver]

Hi Karl

Comments were meant to be tongue in cheek..

We got the GV because it looked good, was a switchable 4x4, big family sized car, high body height, good reputation for a tough old bird, couldn't afford a mercedes eurotank. It also suited where we live, and adverse weather, where my wife would have to get in to work, a 42 mile round trip.

I've kind of moved on from the anger/annoyance of the belt failure, and am stuck in to getting the repair sorted

Can the serpentine pulley be spaced out, to give room?

Can the cover be metalised?

What about 3d printing the cover in abs plastic, extending it down over the cam belt?

I know theres issues with a lot of stuff, but i'm sure this can be fixed

 

[k44rll]

Hi Karl

Comments were meant to be tongue in cheek..

understood hence the smile after the Land rover comment

Im not sure of any modification to the Renault diesel to prevent further issues but plenty of advice here regarding servicing/belt changes etc here....

View forum - NEW Suzuki Grand Vitara (2005-present) ? Suzuki Forum

Karl

 

[Knighty]

Change the serpentine at 30k + km and timing 45k + km, each at 250gbp+ a time.

Crikey is it £250gbp to change a aux belt on a diesel I changed my own on my 2.0 £20 for belt and a two minute job.

 

[Tappet]

Main dealer prices, perhaps? I had all the belts changed on my 2001 Gv. That and an oil service was £550.

The Renault forums are awash with tales of woe about the belt issues; 'had to take the entire front of the car off' etc. But this is how stuff works today.

I do like the torque and economy of diesel engines, but there is a lot to be said for the relative simplicity of the GV's (later) 2.4 petrol, with 20:20 hindsight.

Especially if the current low fuel prices stay.

Re: Land Rover: yes, been there done that. Once was enough.

There are problems though appearing on Renault engined Nissans, for what it's worth.