[MikeJT]

I just can't make sense of this system. Sometimes it puts up the message in plain white text, at other times the message accompanied by a large green Stop-Start symbol with a line through it. Today I got home, pulled the handbrake, put it in neutral and when I released the clutch it immediately flashed up the message and green symbol - then the Stop-Start activated!!!

Bonkers!!

I'm fairly sure the overriding reason for the recent appearance of the message is a decline in battery capacity. The vehicle is 6 years old and the battery is probably original. Having said that it still spins over briskly and starts promptly so I don't feel like dumping a serviceable battery. It seems to me this is a bug in the software with not enough hysteresis built into the system. I just wish there was some way of turning off the notification. I don't need it to tell me - if it doesn't activate I already know it's for failing to meet one or more of the thousand-and-one conditions that have to be met. It's not as though it's telling me anything useful - like which conditions it's failed on.

 

[mozo]

Hi Mike, I own a 2018 swift, probably with the same system as yours. It can take a while for the auto stop to become active in winter, was when the heater is on. And likewise in the summer with a/c on, it will work at one set of traffic lights then not at the next, so yea it seems dependent on the charge of the battery. Nothing you don’t already know, but now you know your not the only one! Regards Phil

 

[MikeJT]

Actually just last week I had a Swift mild hybrid as a courtesy car and that was doing the same, except that it flashed the notification up, auto-stopped the engine then within a second it restarted it. That car was only a year old but as a demonstrator it probably wasn't getting a lot of use.

I just wish I could turn off the notification. It's totally unnecessary. It seems that nowadays designers add lots of these redundant functions just because they can.

 

[fordem]

It seems that nowadays designers add lots of these redundant functions just because they can.

They actually provide quite a bit of useful diagnostic information, but the problem is that owners/operators/drivers either don't actually read them or don't remember what they read - for example, you push the start button and the car doesn't start, we get told it's not recognizing the keyfob, but the message actually says ...

Right there I know the fob has been recognized because the start system is trying to unlock the steering, it won't unlock the steering (or try to) if it hasn't seen a fob that is authorized to allow the car to be driven.

 

[Hullu]

Actually just last week I had a Swift mild hybrid as a courtesy car and that was doing the same, except that it flashed the notification up, auto-stopped the engine then within a second it restarted it. That car was only a year old but as a demonstrator it probably wasn't getting a lot of use.

I just wish I could turn off the notification. It's totally unnecessary. It seems that nowadays designers add lots of these redundant functions just because they can.

It's the Crying Wolf conundrum, too many messages, minor information overload, the driver's brain eventually learns to ignore them, and then when you get the real critical warning that you actually might need, you're more likely to miss it.

I get that stop start unavailable nag screen most of the time, I fitted a new battery recently, still the same.
I'm not even sure I need to know that anyway, I never use it.

 

[MikeJT]

They actually provide quite a bit of useful diagnostic information, but the problem is that owners/operators/drivers don't actually read them

As Hullu says this is very likely due to the Crying Wolf syndrome - so many of them are not actually that useful, such as the one we're discussing. The only possible use for it is to stop simple-minded drivers from complaining to their dealer that it doesn't work, or posting their complaint on this forum but it's not telling us anything vital and is just an unnecessary distraction.

I suppose the only good thing is that at least it doesn't bong at me!

 

[fordem]

The only possible use for it is to stop simple-minded drivers from complaining to their dealer that it doesn't work, or posting their complaint on this forum but it's not telling us anything vital and is just an unnecessary distraction.

It doesn't even work for that - they still complain, and, no it's neither "crying wolf" syndrome nor "simple-mindedness" - a lot of it is people who are just too lazy to pick up the owner's manual & read it.

About a decade or so ago, I got my daughter her first car when she moved to college in Florida, we're from the Caribbean, and TPMS is not a requirement here, so almost ten months into ownership, a strange light pops up on the dash, I got a phone call from her, "Dad, the exclamation mark on the dash came on". I'm driving down the street and I have no clue what she's talking about, so I say "I'm driving, let me pull over and I'll call you back". It takes me less than a minute to pull into a parking space and my phone is ringing again, "it's the tire pressure light". My response is "walk around the car and see if any of the tires look soft", she does that and the answer is no, so I say "take it to the dealer and have them check the tires" - this is a ten month old Kia, and she has Kia's road side assistance package, because Dad is too far away to deal with these "hiccups".

Grown adults are unwilling to do what this college kid did, get the owner's manual out of the glove box and spend a few minutes researching a warning message.

There's nothing wrong with the car, no punctures, just the first of what became an "annual exercise" - every year at the beginning of fall when the temperature dropped the TPMS light would turn on and she'd take it to the dealership and they would top off the tires with nitrogen.

People don't want to pick up that manual, they want to be "spoon-fed", why do I feel this way?
In the two decades I've been on automotive forums I've found that people get pissed off when I send them to their owner's manuals.
Why do I do it?
Two reasons - first, so that you know where to look for authoritative information, there is no one fact checking the answers on forums or social media, and second, your manual is specific to your vehicle, and the market it was built for. My manual is not necessarily the same as yours.

You have a 2019 Vitara SZ-T in the UK, if I'm not mistaken, you have a 12 month service interval, that car in the Caribbean has a 6 month service interval - just one of many differences.

 

[Hullu]

It doesn't even work for that - they still complain, and, no it's neither "crying wolf" syndrome nor "simple-mindedness" - a lot of it is people who are just too lazy to pick up the owner's manual & read it.

About a decade or so ago, I got my daughter her first car when she moved to college in Florida, we're from the Caribbean, and TPMS is not a requirement here, so almost ten months into ownership, a strange light pops up on the dash, I got a phone call from her, "Dad, the exclamation mark on the dash came on". I'm driving down the street and I have no clue what she's talking about, so I say "I'm driving, let me pull over and I'll call you back". It takes me less than a minute to pull into a parking space and my phone is ringing again, "it's the tire pressure light". My response is "walk around the car and see if any of the tires look soft", she does that and the answer is no, so I say "take it to the dealer and have them check the tires" - this is a ten month old Kia, and she has Kia's road side assistance package, because Dad is too far away to deal with these "hiccups".

Grown adults are unwilling to do what this college kid did, get the owner's manual out of the glove box and spend a few minutes researching a warning message.

There's nothing wrong with the car, no punctures, just the first of what became an "annual exercise" - every year at the beginning of fall when the temperature dropped the TPMS light would turn on and she'd take it to the dealership and they would top off the tires with nitrogen.

People don't want to pick up that manual, they want to be "spoon-fed", why do I feel this way?
In the two decades I've been on automotive forums I've found that people get pissed off when I send them to their owner's manuals.
Why do I do it?
Two reasons - first, so that you know where to look for authoritative information, there is no one fact checking the answers on forums or social media, and second, your manual is specific to your vehicle, and the market it was built for. My manual is not necessarily the same as yours.

You have a 2019 Vitara SZ-T in the UK, if I'm not mistaken, you have a 12 month service interval, that car in the Caribbean has a 6 month service interval - just one of many differences.

I would prefer to see RTFM replies only as a last resort after a post has gone unanswered for a while, , it is very annoying to ask a question in an owners forum , hoping another owner knows and can give an answer from first hand experience ,only to get some someone who obviously doesn't actually know immediately replying with RTFM.

What's the point of this kind of forum? the poster then thinking ' no help here then' can simply go elsewhere online. undermining this Forum.
That old cliche, 'you never get a second chance to make a first impression'

 

[JardaB]

Actually just last week I had a Swift mild hybrid as a courtesy car and that was doing the same, except that it flashed the notification up, auto-stopped the engine then within a second it restarted it. That car was only a year old but as a demonstrator it probably wasn't getting a lot of use.

I just wish I could turn off the notification. It's totally unnecessary. It seems that nowadays designers add lots of these redundant functions just because they can.

If the warning light was off, would you be surprised that the start-stop system is faulty?

 

[JardaB]

I would prefer to see RTFM replies only as a last resort after a post has gone unanswered for a while, , it is very annoying to ask a question in an owners forum , hoping another owner knows and can give an answer from first hand experience ,only to get some someone who obviously doesn't actually know immediately replying with RTFM.

What's the point of this kind of forum? the poster then thinking ' no help here then' can simply go elsewhere online. undermining this Forum.
That old cliche, 'you never get a second chance to make a first impression'

RTFM is the first answer—otherwise, laziness will continue to spread, and lazy people will demand services from others, including the welfare state. It is also correct because you don't help a person by giving them a fish, but by teaching them how to fish.

I don't like people who can't figure out how to use complex technology with a 400-page manual and ask dumb questions. Doesn't the smart global network and smart mobile phone help them? Why don't they get a simple horse or a car that was manufactured 20 years ago? when they just marvel and don't use their brains in a modern car.

One possible view of lazy people "without a manual" is that constantly repeating the same unimportant and stupid questions is quite stressful.

That's why the answer is often ... ..... quite appropriate. . And instead of saying thank you, they react irritably -

A: First thing is to do is RTDM = (Read the damn manual)
B: The first thing you need to do is read the damn manual
================
The older I get, the more stupid people I see around me. Please take my previous rant with a grain of salt and a smile—I'm an old grumpy man.

 

[Hullu]

RTFM is the first answer—otherwise, laziness will continue to spread, and lazy people will demand services from others, including the welfare state. It is also correct because you don't help a person by giving them a fish, but by teaching them how to fish.

I don't like people who can't figure out how to use complex technology with a 400-page manual and ask dumb questions. Doesn't the smart global network and smart mobile phone help them? Why don't they get a simple horse or a car that was manufactured 20 years ago? when they just marvel and don't use their brains in a modern car.

One possible view of lazy people "without a manual" is that constantly repeating the same unimportant and stupid questions is quite stressful.

That's why the answer is often ... ..... quite appropriate. . And instead of saying thank you, they react irritably -

A: First thing is to do is RTDM = (Read the damn manual)
B: The first thing you need to do is read the damn manual
================
The older I get, the more stupid people I see around me. Please take my previous rant with a grain of salt and a smile—I'm an old grumpy man.

I'm a relic from the previous millennium like you, back in the last century RTFM was pretty standard common sense.
Sadly very few read thick books these days be it Karamazov , War and Peace, or the fairly comprehensive Suzuki owners manual.
That created the market for Fora like this. I'm just trying to be a bit less grumpy.

 

[fordem]

it is very annoying to ask a question in an owners forum , hoping another owner knows and can give an answer from first hand experience ,only to get some someone who obviously doesn't actually know immediately replying with RTFM.

Hang around automotive forums & facebook groups long enough and you'll discover that the "average owner" has very little first hand experience - he knows what the mechanic said, and he will repeat that, or his understanding of it - you're going to see many posts asking "what was the solution, I have exactly the same problem", when the symptoms aren't the same or the vehicles aren't the same.

I was in a Jimny forum a week or two back and there was someone looking for help with a "crank but no start situation", on a Jimny that had had a frame off rebuild, he had a connector that he couldn't figure out where it went. Step #1 for me was to identify which engine (Jimnys of that vintage can have either a G13bb or an M13a), based on wire colors I suggested that the cable should connect to the cam position sensor, which if not connected will give a crank but no start symptom.

Along comes Mr Average Owner - my Jimny has the same connector, it doesn't go to anything and my car runs fine. The thread starter asks if he can get a picture - turns out that Jimny #2 is a much newer model with the M13a engine and the cable has two wires - Jimny #1 is older, has the G13bb engine and that cable has three wires.

At the end of the day, the reason the thread starter can't find where his cable goes is because the cam position sensor is broken and no longer has the male end of the connector - I had to find a youtube video so he could see what to look for, and that way he finds the broken cam position sensor, orders a replacement, installs it, turns the key, and the engine runs.

My car has the same cable, it doesn't connect to anything and my car runs fine - there's first hand experience for you.

 

[Hullu]

,

 

[MikeJT]

a lot of it is people who are just too lazy to pick up the owner's manual & read it.

Whilst in general I agree with what you're saying I personally find the Suzuki Owners Manual, although impressively comprehensive, quite hard to navigate and in some cases not particularly well written. When this warning first popped up it took me quite a while to find it in the manual.

By the way, I'm also a grumpy old fossil.

If the warning light was off, would you be surprised that the start-stop system is faulty?

No.

 

[fordem]

By the way, I'm also a grumpy old fossil.

Seems to be quite a collection of us here...

 

[MikeJT]

The Vitara's had a bit more use over the last week or so and stop/start has worked more often, but it's still putting up the warning that it's unavailable then immediately activating. The odd thing is it's 3 years - almost to the day - since we bought the Vitara and it's only started appearing quite recently. I initially put this down to an ageing battery losing capacity as even putting it on charge overnight doesn't make any difference so I thought maybe fitting a new one would cure it. Maybe it would, but since the Swift demonstrator I used exhibited very similar symptoms despite being under 1 year old it now seems to me more likely to be a bug in the software that controls this function.

 

[Ankit1612]

Update - today at the traffic lights it didn't kick in after showing the alert, then later it did, again after the alert, but almost immediately started up again. So it seems the system is hovering around the critical point.

Hi This is Ankit here from India, own a Brezza ZXI - MT, i am experiencing exactly the same scenerio as you mentioned , vehicle is two years old , never saw this happening , but now everytime i apply brake , in gear position clutch depressed , it still gived this error " idyling stop unavailable " though when in neutral position it works fine

 

[NielichyBandyta]

Hi guys! In my Vitara it is very simple, as long as ventilation is set to windshild start stop never activates and alert appears (1.4 mildhybrid)