Check all the grounds from the battery to the engine and those to the frame. These cars are known to have the worst ground wires. Make new ones with new wire and wire ends and clean the connections up real good.

Sounds like a ground issue to me.

 

Thanks, I did notice the ground from the engine to firewall is very small and even has a plug in the middle.

 

Still haven't mastered the idle problem BUT - We shut her down after a ride Thursday nite, and guess what? No start on Friday. Had spark, fuel, just NO pop. It threw an ECT code which was evidently erroneous. On Saturday we changed the timing belt. Now she's purring again. Guess it's sweet to have it jump time in the driveway rather than need a rollback to bring it home for the first timing job. And for the first time in my life, after the timing was set, the plugs were fouled from trying to start her. Never had plugs foul out so quickly in 35 years of driving. So I'm learning the ins and outs of this sweet little ride, and the timing belt is out of the way.. Thanks Johnny M. for your responses.....
Also, the grounds are all done under the hood - including an overkill one gauge (i believe, it was free from work and is a half inch thick) wire direct from the battery post to the spot in front of the coolant overflow bottle. It's massive.

 

Still haven't mastered the idle problem

These 3 cylinders do not always idle smooth. Mine shakes a little. Enough to shake the shifter some and even the doors when they are open. It's a balance issue with an engine having only 3 cylinders compared to 4 or 6 or 8.

Central PA huh? I am originally from Altoona, PA

 

update - well after burning way more oil than it should, and timing belt, and fouling plugs, I guess the low idle may be related the overall compression....
60,75,90 pounds.
Is there any reason we can't do a ring job from above and below?
Also, I have read about two and three ring sets for the 1.0
The VIN is of no use as the engine is a 94 I believe. It would be nice to know before we dismantle and have rings, seals head gasket etc.. all ready to go
Would the number on the block be of any use?.

 

Yes there are different ring sets. Engine numbers should help. I took the head off of my engine and the oil pan and put new rings in after a light honing. It is running fine. You might also check the valves too. I purchased a rebuilt head on e-bay shipped for $189.

 

Thanks Eric. What were your symptoms before the ring job?
Where could I link to a cross reference on engine numbers?
The dealer told me he needed a VIN that would match engine to answer the number of rings question.
(rings thru GM aren't available now anyway, he said)
I guess I can hope that when we pull it, the engine was replaced with one of the XFI , higher MPG ones, 2 ringers even though this car is AT..

 

The entire rebuild can be done with the engine in the car. Make sure you check those exhaust valves. I will bet my left nut they are burnt. I posted a guide on this thread for repairing the head..............
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-swift-geo-metro-forum/23868-1-0l-head-rebuild-guide-pics.html

After the head is off, you can drop the pan and remove the pistons out the top. Then you will know what rings you need.

Why not get both sets of rings and return the set you don't use?

 

I saw your post on that earlier tonite, JM.
very informative.
I wanted to have both ring sets at hand but noone near us stocks either one,
and I am certain under the conditions we are working (my job, Uncles spare time, etc..) this job will take a week or so anyway.
We will be checking valves.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, isn't a stuck OPEN egr the main reason for valve damage?
My exhaust port is clogged shut. Is this something given no emmisions here in this part of Pa. that can be left alone? If the exhaust manifold must come off for the job we will clean it out.

 

I stronglt recommend cleaning the port from the manifold, cleaning the same port where it goes through the head, and removing and cleaning the EGR valve itself. I think the main reason these carbon up so bad is the timing. They are retarded from the factory.

When you are done, set the timing about 8 degrees advanced and drive it. If it pings under load, back it off some until no more pinging. If you need help learning how to time it, just ask.

 

thanks - we're starting on it today.....

well, three hours later and the rain hasen't stopped.
We are going to try to get it under roof to work on tomorrow.
Won't start now to drive it anywhere...seems like it jumped time again??

Since I have time to find out:

I have never torqued TTY -or- stretch bolts.
I assume that is what these head bolts are, and that they should be replaced?
I have access to a good torque wrench but not sure if it has angle gauge on it.
Any advice on torquing these bolts?
I read 54 lbs, then 90 degrees then 90 degrees, does this sound close?

Also, after repeated tries starting again today, i have come to the conclusion that the low compression is why it wouldn't start in the driveway before we put on timing belt a week ago. We learned during the belt change that the "obvious" cam timing marks were NOT the ones for TDC at that time and so it did look like it had jumped time. (there is another single, inconspicuous mark several degrees off of the "dual" markings on the cam pulley) I believe if we knew that then, we wouldn't have replaced the belt at all. (it wasn't broken) I checked timing marks today, and they are where we set them. I never mentioned that after replacing the belt it still wouldn't start without different plugs.
Now I hope to get it running to the garage we will clear out for fixing this mess. It really does sound like ONE cylinder only (#3?, 90lbs) is trying to fire.
So the new plugs I installed when we bought it lasted about 500 miles...

engine number is G10R108845, does this mean anything?
I seem to recall R meaning 1994 but can't find link..

 

I re-used my head bolts and had no problem. Use a light coat of oil on them before installing and also blow out the holes so there is no coolant in them! Torque to 55 Ft LBS only starting from center and criss-cross outwards.

One more tip, when the head is off, make sure the check valve stays in the block and when placing the gasket on, please examine the hole cut-outs. Some guys are saying the Felpro head gaskets they used have too small of a hole for the oil return and had to "cut" the hole bigger, but mine was correct.

 

I read something online today about a head gasket problem. Something about a hole being either 1/2 inch or around 1/8 inch. It had to do with crank ventiliation. It must be what your talking about. So, I want to enlarge hole if it's not already that size?

thanks again for your quick responses they are really appreciated

 

I read something online today about a head gasket problem. It must be what your talking about. So, I want to enlarge hole if it's not already that size?

The guys I talked to enlarged the hole with a sharp, clean pair of snippers or diagonal cutting pliers. If you do not fix the hole, the engine may smoke at high speed decelleration. Like I said, mine was OK and you can see it in the pic I posted on my guide, so check yours first. I am assuming Felpro fixed the issue since mine was correctly cut.

 

You might check on a 'Crate Engine’ from Japan. You can get them on the West Coast for around $400. I have purchased 2 of them. My understanding is they have about 30,000 miles on them. The compression on both engines was perfect. I got around 150,000 miles on the first one, still running on the second. You basically treat them as ‘long block’, swapping your intake, exhaust and distributer.

 

OK the head is off. 7 bolts out and the last one cracked a 3/8 drive socket. Damn! Drive to the local auto parts and no 14mm 1/2 inch.(we had the drive but no 14mm socket) 22 miles and then to the trusty neighbor who had a 14mm impact socket and breaker bar. 3 cracks and it's free. The son wanted to take his newly acquired Geo and raffle target tickets for it until that bolt broke free.
The EGR was plugged solid thru the head and exhaust manifold.
All three exhaust valves are burnt. The cylinder walls have zero ridge., and minimal play in the pistons.
I have to drive over and recheck for the oil check valve. Is it in the oil feed to the cam on the head side?
I have the head here and there is a small hole with what appears to be threads going to a cam bearing feed at one end. Threads? Why? haven't looked close enough maybe they're just rings.
Anyway the Uncle is saying we should assume the valves will fix it, and I'm saying yea but how could it burn a gallon of oil in 500 miles because of exhaust valves even though they alone could cause low compression readings?
As stated before, the compression was 60,75,90.
I think since it's apart it would be foolish not to change the rings.
Can we skip honing if the cylinder walls if not scarred?
Not sure about the head gasket holes thing.
I'd like to post pics.
thanks in advance-

 

The check valve should be in the block on the passenger side. It's not very big at all..............

Mine did not smoke so I did not do rings on mine, but you might as well do yours because it smoked just in case. You do not want to pull the head back off again! Drop the oil pan and the caps and push the pistions out. If the cylinders look nice, you may get away with just rings, but man, get a honing stone and do it right. It only takes a few minutes on each cylinder to do it right and you can buy one almost as cheap as renting one. Don't forget to do the valve seals also. Use a small screwdriver with a bend at the end to pry them out or use duckbill needle nose pliers. Tap the new ones in with a socket.

Make sure you stagger the rings! The ring gaps should not be in line when installing. If you need help doing the head, let me know and I will step you through it. I check this forum twice a day.

 

OK the check valve is in the block - whew!
Since my last post, have replaced, and lapped in the new exhaust valves, and existing intakes and replaced all seals.
The rings all looked good but we are replacing them since it is apart. There was zero edge on the walls, and no scoring. I'm wondering if the PO did a ring job without honing... Upon removing pistons we noticed wear on two sets of rod bearings and will also replace them and try to fix up crank journals in place. A machinist friend recommends 600 to 800 grit emery as is will not put a mirror shine on them. He says you don't want that, rather slight imperfections for oil "keepage". My problem is I am not certain if these are standard size rod bearings. The numbers on them are "3f81b". with a little circle logo containing an i and h. Searched the web and found Huate International has produced since 1992....
Can't find any detailed info on such numbers tho.
Also can I use red rtv for egr, intake (around water passages, pan gasket, and cam end/ distributor gaskets?
I did not buy a gasket set, and some of these are not available in my area it seems.

Johhny M., Altoona is only about 1 1/2 hours from me. Mifflinburg. I do remember the horseshoe curve, was there once....

 

The rtv is fine for the oil pan gasket, but not the rest. I would seriously find a head gasket kit. I got mine through "Auto Value" which is also Carquest I think. The kit comes with all the essential o-rings and seals you need including valve stem seals! Did you do those or you think they are OK?

 

It's finally back together and so far so good.
Started on the first few revs, no smoke visible, (other than residual assembly oil for 15 seconds) and no burned oil smell at highway speed.
3 exhaust valves, rod bearings, all gaskets, new rings, valve seals, 5w-30, deglazed cylinder walls with ball hone. (they were very uniform but about .004 oversized)
Set timing at about 6btdc.
Next to adjust idle stop and screw in TB for best overall idle as they both have been screwed with by us and the previous owner.
this was a good day. 18 days for us to have time, weather, and help permitting this whole deal.

How do you even know if EGR is opening the valve what with the other 2 devices in the mix? I'm tempted to run a T in the input to the actual EGR valve and monitor vaccum there at highway speed. If it will open with applied suction while off, I guess vaccum at speed would mean the other parts are working??

just for fun:

purchase price $500.00
sales tax $ 6.00
title, plate $ 74.50
catalytic converter, head pipe $111.45
middle pipe $ 61.16
exhaust donut and gasket $ 6.13
muffler $ 38.02
dist cap $ 9.81
rotor $ 7.23
alternator belt $ 10.50
spark plugs $ 3.90
rod bearings $ 18.78
ring kit $ 79.79
head bolts $ 20.58
egr gasket $ .58
intake gasket $ 5.85
exhaust gasket $17.94
red rtv sealant $ 4.89
pcv valve $ 5.33
valve seals $ 25.00
lappimg compound $ 3.37
lapping suction tool $ 5.30
timing belt $ 14.87
tires, alignment $243.35
PA inspection $ 22.10
head gasket $ 24.95
valve cover grommets $ 8.00
cam seal $ 2.41
oil $ 9.50
tax(parts, align, inspection) $ 49.99


total $1389.11

now to start saving on gas.....

 

Thanks for all your input Johnny M.
The timing is now at 9btdc and no pinging is heard. Should this prolong valve life then?
It has used only a few ounces of oil in 350 miles.
When I encourage my son to Kick it down, we both smile.
This little engine has come back to life!!
I wish I could find a Metro for my daily drive, as I have been taking his to work nearly every day, and my '88 Cherokee chugs gas compared..
With all the other work done (exhaust, tires, alignment) this is truly a sweet little ride.
There was considerable noise in the rear (slighlty loose bumper/skirt rattling, etc..) which I have eliminated.

 

As long as the EGR system is clean and working, the valves should last a long time. Keep the oil changed, check the trans fluid and other fluids and make sure the car stays maintained and you can see 300,000 miles from it easily.

Now you know how easy they are to work on, I would find one for yourself!

Here is a breakdown of mine...................

I totaled everything I have invested in this 1998 Metro including the purchase price.............

Total cost of car and repair/upgrade parts/supplies = $829.50
Total labor time involved for repairs/upgrades = 38 hours

Amount saved by doing own work with estimated $60.00 per hour rate = $2280

Miles driven since purchase in April = 6800
6800 divided by average of 57MPG = 120 gallons of fuel
Average price of fuel would be about $3.50 x 120 gallons = $420.00 estimated

If I were to use my truck as primary vehicle

6800 miles divided by average of 15 MPG = 453 gallons of fuel
453 gallons at $3.50 average = $1585.50 estimated

Amount saved in fuel by driving Metro 4 months = $1165.50
Amount saved when driven 1 full year = $3495.00

Technically, the car is totally repaired and nothing more should go wrong so if I have no issues for the next 5 years, this car would save me a total of $17,475.00 in fuel savings alone. I truly believe I would not sell this car for what it could have been purchased for brand new back in 1998.