when i got my escudo i did a nice bit of work to it
cleaned all the egr system..new o2 sensor.. throttle body was cleaned.. it got a good service.. as well as more that im probably not remembering,,
give it a good flush with a system cleaner..
my jeep is doing 32 miles per european gallon..

 

What is your fuel mileage? Frankly, if the EGR was going to impact your fuel consumption, you would most probably know that your car was hesitating, stumbling and not running very well.
The o2 sensor is one of the important ones that would impact fuel consumption, and normally they are changed every 100,000 miles or less. If you look at your spark plug tips, you should be able to ascertain if the engine is running rich.
The coolant temp sensor advises the ECU whether the engine is warmed up or not - if the ECU thinks that the engine is still cold, it will add fuel/air in order to warm the engine up - again, you would probably notice this with your warm idle, as it would probably not be at the factory spec of 800 rpm.
Timing is another issue - have you ever done a compression test to verify that the engine is timed correctly? Confirmed that your spark plugs are gapped to .028"??
It might be easier if you tell us how the car is running, and what kind of mileage you are getting.
Note that although the factory spec is normally between 25-29 mpg, there are other issues that can impact this - mods you may have on the car, additional weight, tire size, and, as importantly, how you drive. The factory spec is basically attained if you keep the engine under 3000 rpm, shift into 4th and 5th as quickly as possible, rather than driving around in 3rd, etc. Driving around at 4000 rpm - about 70mph - will impact the fuel consumption a lot.

 

please see reply below

 

good day bex i've had a bad computer for sometime couldn't respond. So regarding the fuel consumption. i live in the caribbean we don't really calculate precisely how you guys do regarding miles per gallon etc. (we just drive) lol. So I wouldn't know how to calculate this for you. If there is a lamer term/procedure we can use for solving this please do tell. but i have been reading up and i still believe my fuel has an issue. I filled up maybe 2 days ago again we are on a small island so i'm doing short trips here and there before my gas never really use to budge, now from 2 days ago my gas is just above half tank.

here is what i have in mind

* i have a new EGR valve: i have not put it in as yet because i dont know how long previous owner has vehicle or if they ever changed it but i will change it soon mechanic "CLAIM" its still good.

* i have been reading that sometimes the TPS would go bad and that can drain my fuel too (but i read that your check engine light will come on if TPS goes bad is this true? or it can go bad and your check engine light never comes on)

*i have not cleaned my idle control valve yet (i also get a high n low rev SOMETIMES when coming to traffic light stop or just at idle after vehicle warms up it stops but i never had this issue before)

*the jeep carries 2 oxygen sensors the upstream and downstream i dont know which is which BUT the one on the catylic converter somewhere in middle of my jeep that one is ripped off i guess because of an off road i did (the mechanic said this one doesn't matter please shed some light if it does or doesnt matter)

*spark plugs like you mentioned they are still good my mechanic said i got a 2nd opinion also.

 

i live in the caribbean we don't really calculate precisely how you guys do regarding miles per gallon etc.


jeep carries 2 oxygen sensors the upstream and downstream i dont know which is which BUT the one on the catylic converter somewhere in middle of my jeep that one is ripped off
.

I am surprised that your CEL light isn't on since your "Caribbean" vehicle with two O2sensors is missing the downstream one. Does the light illuminate when you first turn the key before cranking?
B95

 

If you have an android phone or tablet you can get a bluetooth connector relatively cheap and download an OBDII program ( I use Torque) and monitor a lot of the functions going on, check for codes etc. You can also get a cable and plug into a windows computer with appropriate software.

 

i trie an OBDII Bluetooth one already it never connected stuck on connecting I don't think that my 1996/1997 2 door manual 1.6 escudo falls in OBDII is there software for OBDI?

 

What the Home Mechanic Needs to Know about O2 Sensors

I just wanted to check and 100% verify that what I have been told the downstream measures how well the cat is working.

Speaking of the CAT, a clogged one will kill power & MPGs. You still running the original one?
B95

 

yes the downstream is ripped...yes the red CEL light is on I HAVE NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT on...and yes I do feel like jeep has less power yes ive never changed the CAT. so you're saying yes this can affect my fuel going down? (the ripped cable?)

 

If you have 2 O2 sensors (one on the exhaust manifold and one at the cat), your engine will be OBD2. The O2 sensor at the cat will confirm if the cat is working or not - the computer is checking the gases leaving the exhaust manifold (from the first O2 sensor) to the gases at the second o2 sensor. Frankly, OBD2 cars need a scanner to check to see what codes are in the computer - you can’t do it the ‘old fashioned’ way with the paper clip, etc. But not having the downstream O2 will not change the way your car drives (other than turning the check engine light on). Having a clogged cat will. Here’s a way to check:
https://youtu.be/IzyvL5tQLzU
And a way to clean it:
https://youtu.be/5icTmYItwiE

In order to really be accurate about checking your fuel mileage, you should fill your car up (do not top off, due to the evap circuit), drive at least 100 miles, fill the car up again, and write down how many gallons (or liters) it took to fill the car up again. Then divide the number of miles on the odometer, by how many gallons it took to fill up the car. That’s your mpg.

You don’t advise how the car is running - do you have good power? Any hesitation? What is your warm idle rpm?? When was the last time you tuned the car up? (Spark plugs gapped at .028”, etc.?). If you pull your spark plugs, are they all black with carbon? Have you ever changed the o2 sensor on the exhaust manifold? Maybe give some more info.....

 

hey bex thanks you're always good with information for me.

* i have not gotten another 02 CAT sensor yet to try. i dont want to buy one off a wrecked vehicle i will try to order one since buying a used one might not be ideal.

* i did try a bluetooth obdII scanner and it never connected to the vehicle it was stuck on connecting so does this mean i need a OBDI scanner and not II?

*also since my engine light is NOT ON but CAT light is on will the scanner still tell me whats wrong?

* yes on cold start my jeep has a hesitation....but after it warms up that stops...is that bad??sometimes a high rev up n down rpm on idle or when i come to a stop light (i have to make time to clean the idle air control valve to see if that helps)
i will check out the videos to see if cleaning it up will help

 

Total violation of EPA

I have several friends who only drive their Track/Kick off road and they have removed their Cat for better performance. They installed a resistor (google it) to fool the computer so the rest of the CEL system would work correctly.
B95

 

If your down stream o2 sensor is disconnected that will greatly effect your gas mileage.

 

I will have to buy one and install it to see the difference. I was told the upstream affects gas you sure downstream does too?

 

You might be interested in this Youtube video dealing with catalytic converters:

Craziest thing I ever heard, but others back up his claims.

 

Yes, fordem needs a youtube channel to share his unlimited knowledge of all things Suzuki.
B95

 

As I stated before, if the down stream o2 sensor is missing or broken or has high mileage it should be replaced first. Its pretty cheap and you will get immediate results. Since its known it is no good or missing-start there. I broke mine loading it on a trailer and the results were very poor gas mileage and somewhat lower power just before midline RPM`s. Also the newer blended fuels are a killer on these engines. That said I always put "STA-BIL" in my tank. The other thing I use is "RXP" but don't know if you can get it there. I know people look down their nose at snake oil products, but I have used RXP since it hit the market in the mid 90s. (it also clears out any issues with the CAT.

Anyway, that's my nickels worth and with inflation less

 

Also the newer blended fuels are a killer on these engines.

Yes my MPGs suffer if I have to use blended fuel, but luckily there are more than a few places here in the my area that sell 100% gasoline. OM states that ethanol is a no no at least here in the US.

My did get an increase in MPGs when I recently changed out both of O2 sensors with ones sourced from DENSO.


B95

 

I believe that the downstream o2 does nothing other than confirm if the cat is working properly. It will not affect mpg, performance, etc. The fact that Rajiv’s cat light is on indicates that the cat is probably blocked up or failed in some way, and as the engine cannot ‘exhale’ this will affect performance.

 

I believe that the downstream o2 does nothing other than confirm if the cat is working properly. It will not affect mpg, performance, etc.

This is correct - the ECU uses the downstream O2 sensor to monitor catalytic converter efficiency - in a nutshell, the catalytic converter should convert any unburned or partially burned hydrocarbons (carbon monoxide) to carbon dioxide, and in so doing further reduce the unburned oxygen contained in the exhaust fumes - this process should result in the downstream O2 sensor reporting less oxygen than the upstream O2 sensor, what the ECU does is compare the readings from the two sensors and if they match, then the catalytic converter is not doing it's job.

 

Just a note to say I'm following along and have learned alot about CATs and O2 sensors today. Many thanks and appreciation for the knowledgeable folks on this forum!

 

I am on rockauto looking for a downstream to buy the original part number i got from by entering my chassis/vin# on the website below

https://suzuki.epcdata.ru/escudo/200_ta01w/engine/141/18213/?frame_no=TA01W-940941

BUT this is the part number OEM 18213-58B30 but i realise the diagram only has 1 sensor for my VIN# but last i saw 2 sensors... Can that website be wrong? to show me that i dont carry 2 oxygen sensors?

So now i'm wondering if its only one sensor i have and because that one sensor is ripped maybe thats why i'm having these issues. this diagram above shows sensor on the header but to me the wire i saw is connected to the CAT. not the header

this is my VIN#ta01w-940941 please help me decide which part i need tomorrow I can go under and look again to confirm if it is 2 sensors...

 

ok guys I checked under this morning and the sensor is directly on a pipe next to the CAT directly under my 3 door jeep so why does my VIN say only 1 O2 sensor?

now im really confused because if I have one in the middle under the jeep I must have another on the header correct? which would mean I carry 2 of them

 

this is the image

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-1998-...ake:Suzuki|Model:Sidekick&epid=169266314&hash=item239547ec1f:g:DHYAAOSwlMFZJxct

 

Can you PLEASE go into your signature, and put in your car’s specs - year, engine, tranny, # of doors, etc., as well as your location? Otherwise, we have to constantly hunt around this post in order to find out what you are driving.
‘2 door 1996/1997(??) Escudo, manual tranny, Caribbean...’
Rock auto is basically for US market cars, so the information that you will find there will presumably not be accurate for an Escudo, which I believe is Japanese market, although Fordem will know better.
If you put your VIN in here, or search for your particular market, you should possibly get better info:
https://www.catalogs.ssg.asia/suzuki/?lang=en#
But I believe reading that Japanese market cars do not offer good internet information....???? In trying the above link myself, I do not see any indication of ‘Escudo’ in any of the markets....???

In any event, if you do not have emissions inspection in your area, I wouldn’t really worry about the downstream o2 that’s on your cat. I would worry, of course, if the cat is clogged....

 

I have just updated my Signature finally you have been telling me to do this for a very long time, sorry about that. Now it would make it easier.

 

Since yours is a Caribbean market vehicle, hopefully forden will use his vast knowledge of non N American market vehicles to successively find the correct part # for you.

Just a side note, have you check to see if you could have a sticking brake caliper? I have had this as well and it was caused by a defective flexible brake line.

B95

 

Umm - unfortunately, the vehicle being discussed is not Caribbean market, but actually a used JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) vehicle.

JDM vehicles are built specifically for use in Japan, and cannot be exported new - they can however be exported used and are very common in the RHD islands of the Caribbean because they are available at significantly lower prices than new vehicles.

One of the problems that owners of used JDM vehicles experience is the unavailability of reliable documentation, a second problem is the challenges of identifying what parts will fit, some parts are unique to the JDM markets, and it's not unheard of to see vehicles with features that were not seen on the export market models of the same year or generation.

The only reliable way I know of to source parts for a used JDM vehicle is to use a website that lets you lookup the part based on the VIN/chassis number, once you have the part number you can then compare it to the parts used on export market models and if it's the same, you can order it from an online vendor in that market, if it's not, then you will need to order directly from Japan.

Two of the vehicles listed in my signature are used JDM, so I'm quite familiar with the "mine field" that used JDM owners have to make their way through to maintain their vehicles.

 

So can you locate that part number for me that I can buy from rockauto I tried googling Interchangeable part # to what I found on the website I gave but i'm not finding rockauto part numbers to match the original i found on the website but like i expalined i have one next to the CAT so which means I have 2 O2 sensors but the website showed my VIN carries 1 O2 sensor so this is where i'm confused.

 

i believe the down stream and upstream sensors are exact same shape correct? maybe thats why the website i got the part number from shows me only 1 in the diagram? which i assume means i can buy the part number they gave me

 

Again, do you have some type of inspection or emissions inspection in your location? If not, I would not worry about the downstream o2 at this point,. But would worry about a clogged cat or similar. The downstream o2 will not affect your car’s performance, gas mileage, etc. If you are unable to perform any of the cat tests as per the links in this thread, perhaps it is possible for you to disconnect the cat at the connection of the exhaust pipe to the cat, before the cat itself. Of course, your car will be very loud, as you are also disconnecting the muffler that rides behind the cat. But you will also be able to tell if the performance of your car improves and your issue reduces. A bit of a backyard ‘test’, but will indicate if your cat is clogged.

 

Feel free to correct me as I seem to be missing something that refers to less gas mileage as the OP questioned the down stream o2 sensor.
My understanding is the DS o2 sensor works in concert with the up stream o2 and sends that information to the ECU.

That said the DS o2 is missing causing the ECU to adjusting the timing and the richness of the fuel, the DS o2 sensor is a check of the CAT as mentioned and will heat the CAT to factory sats.

When the system over compensates without the information to the CAT performance. This is why you will get fuel loss running rich and that will cause wet plugs and it will greatly effect the performance of the CAT "AND" cause it to clog up prematurely causing the CAT to fail in the long run which when combined with the other above, performance and gas mileage will suffer.

Ok that's my nickel advise again.

 

Feel free to correct me as I seem to be missing something that refers to less gas mileage as the OP questioned the down stream o2 sensor.
My understanding is the DS o2 sensor works in concert with the up stream o2 and sends that information to the ECU.

I really don't see why I, or anyone else, needs to go over this again, it has been covered repeatedly by myself, and at least one other person, in this thread.

Your understanding is incorrect - the sole purpose of the downstream O2 sensor, if fitted, is to monitor the performance of the catalytic converter - it plays NO part in determining the air/fuel ratios or the fuel efficiency/fuel consumption of the vehicle. It plays NO part in the heating of the catalytic converter, that is done either by the O2 sensor heater (if fitted) or the exhaust gasses, it plays NO part in timing.

One last thing - whilst the system does monitor catalytic converter efficiency, this is purely for federal emission requirements, the efficiency of the catalytic converter has no impact on vehicle efficiency or fuel consumption, all the catalytic converter does is reduce carbon monoxide emissions by completing the combustion and converting them to carbon dioxide - in effect it is cleaning up the exhaust that has already left the engine.

 

Hi guys ok here is the summary

- the epcdata.ru website that told me i have only 1 O2 sensor on my VIN# was wrong I have 2 sensors

- the CAT light on dashboard is now OFF thanks to you and mechanic on my island he re wired the sensor because the wire was ripped off and I had to solder a wire onto a part of the CAT

- i did not have the manufacture CAT he told me the original one would have a shield around the CAT i have a different type without the shield so there is nothing inside of the CAT i have

-he did tell me though one of the RINGS on my exhaust pipe leading to the upstream O2 sensor that ring is FINISHED now he said air can be escaping and since i haven't changed that ring as yet that can allow me to burn fuel for sure. he said you suppose to see the ring aroudn the pipe because along the way they have other rings you can see he showed me and the one in that connected pipe its diminished.

-only light i have on now is my airbag light for some reason but both air bags are still intact they haven't popped but thats not really important so i'll just ignore it.

-now i have another issue which is i'm hearing metal knocking on metal when i give throttle and drop the thottle while in motion (the last time i had or heard this it was the plate knocking on the manifold) i'm not sure if it is the same thing again because this noise i am not hearing it often it happens whenever it wants lol. when it was there before i would just stay parked and give accellration and you wouldve heard it ringing in engine bay the plate knocking against manifold it was just too close/lose so we pried it up a bit. but this time it doesnt make that noise at idle its only in motion and it is not a wheel bearing or i would be hearing a HUMM sound in motion. so he told me my vehicle is driving so he doesnt think it is an engine issue he told me i would have to wait until i hear the noise more frequently to bring it for him only THEN we can try to pin point the issue because if not we will just be chasing a ghost noise if the noise is not happening everytime. it only happens when i give accelaration and drop it basically when compression is dropping ...like down a steep hill . but again it does not happen everytime. ive been to mechanics for noises and when i bring it for them to check it out the noise NEVER HAPPENS.

 

- i did not have the manufacture CAT he told me the original one would have a shield around the CAT i have a different type without the shield so there is nothing inside of the CAT i have

IF your catalytic converter had the thermal fuse on it, then I strongly suspect it was the original one - simply because most catalytic converters don't have it - having said that - when dealing with used JDM vehicles and mechanics in the Caribbean, anything is possible.

IF you do in fact have two O2 sensors and a catalytic converter with nothing inside I would expect to see a check light with a catalytic converter efficiency code set.

- he did tell me though one of the RINGS on my exhaust pipe leading to the upstream O2 sensor that ring is FINISHED now he said air can be escaping and since i haven't changed that ring as yet that can allow me to burn fuel for sure. he said you suppose to see the ring aroudn the pipe because along the way they have other rings you can see he showed me and the one in that connected pipe its diminished.

IF there is an exhaust leak prior to the upstream O2 sensor, that could be the reason for your high fuel consumption - if air leaks IN to the exhaust it will be seen as a lean mixture and the ECU will add fuel to compensate.

The problem I have with this theory is the "upstream" sensor is in the exhaust manifold and there are is no "pipe" leading to it - only in the pipe after it.

Like I said - with used JDM cars & mechanics in the Caribbean - you never know what you'll find, I haven't seen what you're seeing, so good luck with it, it sounds like you're making progress...

 

Just my $0.02 - the epcdata.ru site may well be correct for your VIN - can YOU guarantee that your car has the original exhaust on it?

I moderate a number of vehicle forums and there's another forum on which I have been watching a member ask questions about his used JDM vehicle - what is unusual about this particular scenario is that the member is located within a mile of me and I know more about the vehicle he is working on than he does.

This is an individual that buys used vehicles, fixes them up and sells them - not unusual in the Caribbean - this particular vehicle he acquired from another guy who also does the same thing, but, in addition, the second guy imports used JDM vehicles parts which he resells, and the engine & transmission on the vehicle is not the original - something which I am aware of, and which the forum member is not - the original engine & transmission was pulled and sold to a customer and then another engine & transmission imported and fitted - the forum member is now chasing his tail trying to figure out why parts from the original engine are still fitted to the vehicle but not connected to the replacement engine, and how to connect them, when in reality, they don't belong because the replacement engine doesn't require them...

Back to your vehicle - can you be sure that what you are looking at is original or at least equivalent to the original? What I can tell you is that it would have been quite unusual for a JDM car of that vintage to have two O2 sensors.

 

-i also foudn it unsual for my model to have ABS and AIR BAGS lol because ive never seen that model with those.

-the mechanic said our jeeps have 2 sensors he has a v6 model to mine

 

At least for the US market, only the OBD2 engines will have the two O2 sensors. The OBD1 engines have only one O2 sensor, in the exhaust manifold. One way for you to determine what you actually have would be the procedure that you need to use to get codes. If you need to hook up to a scanner/code reader, and then get a 3 digit code reading, you are OBD2. If you can use a jumper wire on the diagnostic connector in the engine bay, and get 2 digit codes, you are OBD1.