Man I'm sorry, that does look like a total nightmare. That's the 1st I've ever heard of a lower-end rod knock on one of these motors. I hope it works out.

 

Yeah too bad i wasn't the one who initially looked at it. I would have tried an engine carbon cleaning 1st before even considering an engine.

If you look at some of the pics, you can see the top of the pistons on the old block had carbon buildup, and when i drove it in, the noise sounded more like detonation rather than rod knock. But before i could say anything , the parts guy had wheeled the new block in.


Yeah i hope i get this thing back on the road for my sanity's sake.

I am waiting on a new cam position sensor and hopefully a good working one will send a good signal to the ECU

 

Presumably you have all the factory service manuals and followed the relevant sections?

I would be surprised if you've damaged the sensor, more likely there is a cam timing error which the computer is able to detect between the crank and cam sensors. Also check any sensor adjustments (gaps) if applicable.

 

Probably would have been easier, and if you consider the labour, cheaper, to install a used engine.

 

oh my thoughts exactly! Problem is this is under warranty and the Suzuki tech is quitting so they ddnt want him to have such a big project to do...


as far as it taking a month to finish, yeah it's getting close...


The service manual says the enigne/trans. has to be removed from the bottom, no access from the top because of the way the oil pan hits the steering rack, and it being a 4x4 & all...


The saga continues...

 

Yikes, nightmare is right! I don't understand why Suzuki USA doesn't have at least a few long blocks available for this although unlikely event. My hats off to you for attempting this massive repair. I can't offer any advise other than good luck and let us know the outcome!

And I complain about the location of the oil filter on these V-6's. Never again!

 

Engine

Whew ! what a mess.

You know these GV's have what sounds like a low end knock, when in reality it is the tension of the drive belts; there is a TSB out on it. The theory is that the belt puts pressure on the crank pulley which in turn causes it to turn out of round and produce what sounds like a rod knock......but of course Suzuki claims this causes no harm to the bearings.

I bet that was the knock they heard.

 

Whew ! what a mess.

You know these GV's have what sounds like a low end knock, when in reality it is the tension of the drive belts; there is a TSB out on it. The theory is that the belt puts pressure on the crank pulley which in turn causes it to turn out of round and produce what sounds like a rod knock......but of course Suzuki claims this causes no harm to the bearings.

I bet that was the knock they heard.

i'll be so pissed if that's the case, the only time i have access to Suzukipitstop.com ( tech support for tsb's etc ) is through the asst. service manager...anyway i have to se it through, and i will post what my solution was...


and yes the oil filter is in the most dumbest location, if you were to do an oil change at home it would take a long time, you would think Suzuki would have wanted to at least install some kind of oil filter relocation or something...


but that would be too obvious

 

Wait till you get your hands on a 2009 3.2 v6 the oil filter is a major pain..
well sorry for all those problems but it is very rare to see an enigne like the 2.7 with that kind of problems!!!!!!hope it goes away when engine is done completly

 

Do it from the top - MUCH easier to reach.

 

That's the first i've heard of the newer 2.7L having any issues. I've done 100s of TSBs on the stupid accessory belts knocking - and yes they do sound like a rod knock when they get bad enough. Tightening past the TSBs torque spec seems to do the trick everytime - never had a comeback.

 

I was just saying that it could have been the original problem.
My 07 had to have the belt adjusted before it had 3000 miles on it for the rod knock noise.
So you see it does occur on the newer 2.7 engines.
No problems with my 08 and it has 5000 miles on it.

 

It's hit or miss in my experience, however it will probably develop down the road as the belt stretches a bit. It doesn't take much and it sure is annoying. It's fun telling the customer the iminiate sound of their motor exploding is coming from the accessory belts.

As a rule I only torque the P/S, A/C belt - the alternator one never makes the noise.

 

Thanks for the info.

Good to know the alternator belt is not affected.

 

Easiest access to the oil filter I've found is to jack up the drivers side front and pull the wheel/tire. Then if you reach blind up a little above where the wheel was you will find the filter straight ahead. Definitely not designed taking this routine maintenance in mind. A quarter turn ball valve drain plug solved the problem with the sideways shooting oil.

I do not know how to solve the "won't start" problem but I would try pulling the codes from the computer. My cheap USB II reader works fine on my Suzuki's.

Jim

 

Easiest access to the oil filter I've found is to jack up the drivers side front and pull the wheel/tire. Then if you reach blind up a little above where the wheel was you will find the filter straight ahead. Definitely not designed taking this routine maintenance in mind. A quarter turn ball valve drain plug solved the problem with the sideways shooting oil.

I'm going try this on the next change. But it seems you would practically have to crawl in amongst the suspension to get to the filter using your method. It is still up behind the steel fenderwell and as you said you're blind going after it. And of course use the proper safety equipment such as jack stands. Makes a routine oil change a PITA. But I suppose anything would be better than laying on your back and having hot oil run down your arm while unscrewing the filter.

 

Axeman,

There is nothing blocking you from removing the filter through the fender well but the filter is up a little from what you can see easily. I just reach over the suspension and there it is. If you lower your head and look up there you can see it. With a cap wrench and a short extension on a ratchet, it is pretty easy. I'm 6'2" with long arms so I do not have to sit in the wheel well but I still use a stand. The hard part is jacking the car up and pulling the wheel (and putting in a stand). Silly way to change oil but the only other thing that worked for me was to do it from below but I had a lot of trouble getting the angle of the filter right due to the reaching I had to do to get to it - and I had to jack it up to get under it far enough to reach the filter. Once it is jacked up, I prefer pulling the wheel to laying under there reaching it at an odd angle.

The quarter turn ball valve to drain oil is a bigger success story. It's only drawback is you have to wait awhile for all the oil to drain since the opening is smaller and the oil goes down the clear plastic tube I attached to the valve. I open it and then switch to jacking up the GV for the filter.

Jim

 

UPDATE: After scrutinizing with the asst. manager and the people at Suzuki, we have come to the conclusion that the tone wheel on the flex plate wasn't installed correctly.


So in essence, the cam sensor and crank sensors were sending conflicting signals to the ECU, therefore causing the ECU to act " crazy " .

So mechanically it was in time, but electronically it wasn't.

i have to drop the engine tomorrow and remove and reinstall the tone wheel/flexplate..


i'll take some more pics

 

ok so today i dropped the engine and trans again ( this time went way smoother and faster ) , and sure enough the tone wheel on the flex plate was on wrong. there was a dowel tat the tone wheel was supposed to line up with , so the timing was off electronically by 90*...


put everything back and installed into the vehicle, wiring harness, engine, trans. cradle and it fired right up...


thanks for all the replies guys now that i'll be doing some more Suzuki training you'll be seeing me post more here

 

I've been following this thread and wow... That is a huge nightmare. I wonder how much this would cost with labor. Must be astronomical...

Good work!

 

i would guess-timate labor alone would prolly be around 20 hours +/- figure that to be around 90/hr depending on dealership/repair facility.


but yeah i got it running, i literally almost took the whole shop out for lunch after i fired it up, that's how happy i was.

all i need to do is recharge the a/c and send it to detail to get washed .


pretty proud of myself i must say

 

Congratulations on your success and persistence.

I look forward to more great pictures also. This sort of communication between owners and Suzuki personnel is exactly what can make a site like this very valuable to both. Which trickles down to brand satisfaction and loyalty.

 

Enjoyed following this thread & I'm glad it's paid off regardless on how much of a nightmare it was.

The pics were great & besides me, I'm sure a lot were scruitinizing the images.

I'd be proud of the work you did Suzukinoob & you deserve a beer for it all. After all of this it wasn't the worst decision you made after all.

Enjoy the GV

 

yeah i was being persistent , almost to the point that my service manager was getting sick of seeing me, but dammit this GV wasn't going to take me down with it, i forgot to take mcamera yesterday to take more pics, but i'll get some after shots today.


I told management i am going to take a 3 day weekend just to unwind and rejuvenize my busted up back


and as far as deserving a beer, lets say i took that advice + 10

 

so i went from this

to this

went on a road test and it drives smooth, now after my ordeal i wouldn't rule out getting a GV....they're not too bad

 

These are great pictures. I own a 07 GV Rwd Xsport similar to this one. I have never seen an engine and power train teardown on one before. Thank you for sharing your adventure with us.

 

sorry, coming into the tread late. i was in afghanistan for a few months, which can be communicationaly challanged. anyway, my 06 had to have a motor put in it for the same reason, lower end knock. mine only had 166 miles on it when they did it, and it wasnt the belt tensioner. we managed to get a rental car comparable to what we have, a full fuel tank, and they installed fender flares, free of charge!! its amazing how "customer satisfaction" can play a big part in what they will do!! But you have to push them!!

glad you made it through it, my service manager told me it cost some where in the nieborhood of 10 grand to do the repair....ouch!! glad suzuki sucked it up!!

kevin

 

The GV engine can be taken out the old fashion way: from the top and engine only. You cannot always trust the service manual. And remember folks, the 2.7 and 3.2 engines were made before the new body style were made, so oil filter placement was not taken into consideration. Just ask any guy with a '99-'05 GV how easy it is to replace.

 

I too was contemplating removing from the top, but from what i could see is the bellhousing bolts at the top of the transmission were impossible to get to without dropping the whole thing.

 

Hey Suzukinoob

Just think matey..... You've got a lot interested with your posts here. I'm sure you can relay to others of other bits mechanical to the forum.

I hope you do get your hands on a GV. I'm on my 4th one since '94...... well Vitara's & Grand Vitara's (or whatever the North Americans called the Vitara's prior to the GV) anyway. We don't get the 2wd versions in Oz so get a 4wd version. With what you've just done you could probably rebuild one!

At least you have the experience to fix them when they go wrong... Now you just gotta convince your boss for a payrise & be head Suzuki tech where you work!

If you've got any beers left over I'll have one :lol:

 

Wow, I'm glad I found this thread! My '07 GV 2.7L is making a knocking noise that keeps time with the crankshaft. It only does it when hot, A/C off, and in park or neutral. As soon as I touch the gas it goes away. It makes sense about the tension on the crank from the belt. Oil pressure would be low so the oil may not insulate the main bearings very well.

So, I'm headed out to mess with the belt. How do I torque it?

 

Just did it today so it's still fresh in my mind.

Looking at your engine bay you will see the 2 tensioner pullies, one on the lower left next to the alt. and one in the kinda middle right, next to the water pump pulley.

I removed the coolant overflow bottle and ground strap 1st so i would have more room for the torque wrench.
You have to loose & remove the left side tensioner bolt, it's the one on the left and , the bolt on the right you only loosen, do not remove.

Then you take a hex wrench socket ( or allen wrench depends on who you ask ) and set your tq wrench to 5 ft lbs , you turn the wrench until it clicks ( or until you reach 5 ft lbs , depends on the tq wrench ) then you tighten the bolt that you left in the tensioner pulley , it's easier if you use a 12 mm open end wrench to initially tighten the bolt you left in.
then you install the bolt you previously removed and tight it until snug.

You do the same for the right side tensioner, but you only loosen the 2 bolts, there is a hex ( or allen ) hole already in the middle of the pulley.

Do the same to the right side as you did to the left but the tq spec for the right side is 8.5 ft lbs.

after doing so start it up and make sure the noise is gone and you don't have any squealing......done

see the coolant overflow bottle? it' held in with 3 10 mm bolts , just remove it from the fan module and set it aside , and you can see the ground strap, i know it's a bad & blurry pic

 

Mine DID NOT do it in neutral.....only when in gear.
Go to the dealership....There is a TSB out on it.

TSB No. TS 22 09197

 

SUBJECT: ENGINE KNOCKS AT IDLE WHEN FULLY WARMED UP: DRIVE BELT
TENSION CHANGE
MODEL(S): GRAND VITARA (JB627)
YEAR: 2006~2008
AFFECTED VIN(S):VEHICLES UP TO PRODUCTION DATE OF JULY, 9 2007
CONDITION: After the engine completely warms up a knocking noise can be heard from the
bottom of the engine.
CAUSE: Mis-adjusted drive belt tension will cause the engine crank shaft to abnormally
oscillate which can produce an audible knock sound similar to excessive bearing
clearance noise (bottom end knock).
NOTE: The mis-adjusted belt will not result in internal engine damage.
CORRECTION: The tension of the water pump/alternator belt was changed in production from
700N to 650N to reduce this audible knock. Use one of the two procedures below
to adjust the drive belt tension of the water pump / alternator belt to the new
specification found in the instructions. Also verify the tension is correct on the
power steering / A/C belt. Engine should be cold when adjustment is made.
Adjustments of the drive belts using the values in this TSB will minimize the noise
heard.