[Mikeww]

By the way when I had my manual hubs apart for what appeared to be their first ever service I noticed a lot or corrosion on the springs (the large ones) a Lot Of Corrosion! I'm sure they will break sometime I was surprised they weren't already. Are these springs available on the open market? I can't seam to find a listing for parts like that.

 

[Bex]

Possibly not. When I had to refurbish my hubs, I was lucky enough to find parts in a junked 1988 Toyota pickup. Most of the internal parts of your hubs will be similar, and interchangeable, with Isuzu, Toyota, Sidekick manual hubs. Exactly what kind of corrosion did you find? Like the spring is about to rust through?? Frankly, the large spring only pushes the clutch gear onto the axle - it has no other function (or load) on it in use. (The small spring is the one that brings the gear back out off the axle). Normally you can clean a good part of the rust off of the large spring, and still have it serviceable. I never tried to find an aftermarket spring or similar dimensions in order to replace mine, as I was able to find the junkyard hubs (which were totally rust out with the exception of the spring).

 

[Bex]

Another forum has recommended this site for Aisin parts. Apparently the guy refurbishes them and sells them, and will often sell individual parts. You could contact them if the spring is really in bad shape. Everything, with the exception of the clutch gear (which is splined) is interchangeable with any other Aisin model, so even if the site says 4Runner, Isuzu, whatever, everything except the clutch gear will fit your car:
Aisin Manual Hubs 79-95 4Runner/Pickup | WabFab Off Road

 

[Rhinoman]

I recently installed Warn Premium hubs on my neighbors X90, all metal no plastic. You get what you pay for, they were under 200 canadian. I have spare aisin hubs for my tracker that I swap out as required, I run Warns on my truck. After 20 years the stock hubs suffer from being taken apart every year. Rebuild parts are difficult to purchase if you can find them. My Warns are easy to service and parts are readily available spend a little extra and they last for years..

The aftermarket Warn hubs are very different from the Warn hubs that were fitted as OE. The OE hubs are probably a lot more expensive too when sourced from your local dealership.

 

[Mikeww]

They were rusted almost half way through in some places. And after a good cleaning and greasing there was still a lot of metal missing ( ;
So I shrugged my shoulders and put them back on hoping for the best, so far so good. I'll probably spring for a new set before long or I may try the junk yard for kicks...he he you see what I done there?

 

[Bex]

Yes, a junkyard for kicks, eh??
You can always try the link above to see if they will sell you the spring. Hopefully you cleaned all and brushed grease on (not globbed in). And as just about every Japanese import as well as a load of domestic 4x4s use the Aisin as factory hubs, you should be able to find parts easily enough.

 

[tpatrickd1]

Good discussion on hubs. I have both manual and auto hubs on my trackers. One thing I found out about auto hubs is engage into 4wd before you park up against a garage like I do. I would go out after a snow and engage into 4wd and would be stuck. The tracker has to move forward a couple of feet for auto hubs to engage. I know Bex has disputed this but I think you have to change hub behind the hubs before you switch auto to manual and vice versa.

 

[Bex]

Good discussion on hubs. I have both manual and auto hubs on my trackers. One thing I found out about auto hubs is engage into 4wd before you park up against a garage like I do. I would go out after a snow and engage into 4wd and would be stuck. The tracker has to move forward a couple of feet for auto hubs to engage. I know Bex has disputed this but I think you have to change hub behind the hubs before you switch auto to manual and vice versa.

Not quite sure what you are saying here. Yes, with car in 4wd you do have to move forward slowly for a few feet for the auto hubs to engage.
To remove the hubs fully from the car, it is the rear 6 bolts that you remove (closest to the car), to get the entire hub off (after wrestling with cone washers).

 

[Mikeww]

Well I think I've made a decision I think I'll just keep my man hubs it looks like they will be less trouble (touch wood) than the autos especially scene Rhinoman said I can leave them locked with no worries.

 

[Bex]

Here, these diagrams make this easier to understand exactly what is happening with hubs locked, unlocked, in 4wd, in 2wd, etc.
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/hubs.html
And remember it is important not to put the transfer case into 4wd on dry surfaces. With front hubs locked, you are locking your wheels to the axle, but are still not delivering power to the front wheels until you put the transfer case into 4wd. Doing that on dry surfaces where one wheel cannot slip, is what causes transfer case problems and windup.

 

[Mikeww]

Here, these diagrams make this easier to understand exactly what is happening with hubs locked, unlocked, in 4wd, in 2wd, etc.
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/hubs.html
And remember it is important not to put the transfer case into 4wd on dry surfaces. With front hubs locked, you are locking your wheels to the axle, but are still not delivering power to the front wheels until you put the transfer case into 4wd. Doing that on dry surfaces where one wheel cannot slip, is what causes transfer case problems and windup.

Thanks Bex

Very informative link you got there! That's about what I figured I just needed some encouragement this being the first vehicle I've owned with locking hubs. Neither my S10 nor the Jeep Waggoner both (4X4) have them,guess I've been babied too much.

Starting to Look forward to snow this winter I think this little rascal might be fun!

 

[fix-kick]

the manual hubs are better ( some like their autos ,well let them)
they are vastly easier to service. (there are some autos that are easy, most are not)

and when you turn the knob , you are 100% sure that you have lock up.
with autos, you can never be sure. it will work, you just pray it does.
what makes you happy, is your call.
some ppl lock the hubs and then unlock in the spring.
Some early kicks (really VIT'S) have permanent locked hubs. (solids)

there are some tricks to learn,if you get stuck with autos.
to get them to engage. there are great youtubes showing One TRACKICK (partial high centering issue)
with left front wheel stuck in the air and right rear same. (offroad issue but could be ice)

the open diffs , put all torque to the failing wheel. (front or rear)
so to avoid that there are 2 tricks, the AUTO hub trick and the drag brakes trick to simulate LSD axles.
you can use hand brake partial applied. to get a virtual LSD rear.

with these 2 tricks you cant get stuck (mostly)

if you dont believe this find some wet ice parking lot and play.

 

[Scudo]

Thanks bex for the link to the page earlier on in the thread on servicing automatic hubs. Though that was the same page as I was looking at.

It is the same spring that the guy was complaining about that I don't want to have to deal with. But one day either when I am bored or feel confident enough I will pull them apart and give them a clean out.



Back on how the auto locking hubs lock.

Mine lock under slippage as well as vehicle movement. I been in situations where I was actually unable to move until I put it in 4WD. So they need to have locked before my front wheels were rolling or also slipping.

 

[Bex]

If I understand correctly, with the auto hubs, you must put the car into 4wd first at the transfer case, and then move slowly forward about 10 feet or so for them to engage, before the hubs will lock. If this was not the case, then every time you were in stop and go traffic, your auto hubs would lock as you inched forward. So they do nothing until you move the transfer case lever. So Scudo, when you encounter slippage before putting the transfer case into 4wd, your hubs were not locked at all, still in 2wd.
Auto hubs can be very confusing. With the manuals, so easy just to see that they are locked or not.

 

[fix-kick]

like I sad many early Vits come locked for ever.
just move lever to 2wd, to unlock.
mpg drops 1mpg? frak it.

 

[Scudo]

I think there is a little misunderstanding.

My talk may not have said what was in my head. So I'll just bullet point it.

Driving along and reach a bit of mud/grass what not on hill
Start to slip and loose momentum
Damnit
Stop
Try to start again but more slippage no motion
Slot selector into N and Xfr 4wd hi
Slowly try to start again
Mild slippage
Slight CLUNK after about one rear wheel rotation or so
Front wheels "chirp" slightly as hubs lock under light power with the CLUNK
Up the hill I go

That is what I meant by slippage. The front wheels might not have turned instantly but I am sure the CV shafts had some rotation going which with the still wheel put the hubs into lock mode.

Only thing is if I needed to drive forward 10 feet I either would have not gotten out or I would have to spun the rears a lot more before they engaged.

 

[aquanaut20]

If I understand correctly, with the auto hubs, you must put the car into 4wd first at the transfer case, and then move slowly forward about 10 feet or so for them to engage, before the hubs will lock. If this was not the case, then every time you were in stop and go traffic, your auto hubs would lock as you inched forward. So they do nothing until you move the transfer case lever. So Scudo, when you encounter slippage before putting the transfer case into 4wd, your hubs were not locked at all, still in 2wd.
Auto hubs can be very confusing. With the manuals, so easy just to see that they are locked or not.

The auto hubs do indeed work in reverse and that is the bone of contention, in order to work the drive shaft has to rotate in the hub and spin a cog on a ramp system, each time the shaft changes direction it must de-ramp and ramp in the opposite, this causes lots of movement causing wear and breakage when to OP gets inpatient and hammers it to get unstuck.... over greasing also causes headaches as the resistance when cold causes the cog to bind and refuse to ramp, leaving the hub in N.... Philip

You are indeed not correct, the auto hub is designed to lock at 1/4 turn of the 1/2 shaft, the shaft turns when the T/C is placed in 4Hi, the hubs lock before there is any wheel movement....... Philip
__________________

 

[Bex]

You are indeed not correct, the auto hub is designed to lock at 1/4 turn of the 1/2 shaft, the shaft turns when the T/C is placed in 4Hi, the hubs lock before there is any wheel movement....... Philip
__________________

I do not have the auto hubs, and am only reading from their operating manual which advises after shifting the transfer case into 4wd, 'drive slowly forward and the hubs will lock'. It does not specify the distance, etc. However, knowing that you are correct (as always!) then that solves Scudo's mystery, in that:

"Slot selector into N and Xfr 4wd hi
Slowly try to start again
Mild slippage
Slight CLUNK after about one rear wheel rotation or so
Front wheels "chirp" slightly as hubs lock under light power with the CLUNK"

The mild slippage turned the halfshaft, allowing him to go into 4wd.

 

[aquanaut20]

I do not have the auto hubs, and am only reading from their operating manual which advises after shifting the transfer case into 4wd, 'drive slowly forward and the hubs will lock'. It does not specify the distance, etc. However, knowing that you are correct (as always!) then that solves Scudo's mystery, in that:

"Slot selector into N and Xfr 4wd hi
Slowly try to start again
Mild slippage
Slight CLUNK after about one rear wheel rotation or so
Front wheels "chirp" slightly as hubs lock under light power with the CLUNK"

The mild slippage turned the halfshaft, allowing him to go into 4wd.

This is an indicator of too much grease and it needs to squeeze past ramp, it will degrade as temperatures drop and probably fail when most needed. (Buried in snow).

Here in the cold, I wipe(1/2" brush) with low temp grease and then add a tablespoon of ATF into the hub when I install them... exercise them to shift the grease and lube around, run all winter with no issue... Philip

 

[Scudo]

This is an indicator of too much grease and it needs to squeeze past ramp, it will degrade as temperatures drop and probably fail when most needed. (Buried in snow).

Winter here is about 25 Celsius at its coldest at 3 am in the morning with rain. Summer hottest is about 34 Celsius at midday with no wind.

It is likely that these hubs were never serviced. So probably dirty grease?