If you have any way to hand that back to the dealer and walk away, that would be how I would approach it.

 

First - the dealer is already BS'ing you - you're never going to get a check engine light because you have repeatedly stalled the engine due to any sort of unfamiliarity with the clutch.

Moving on, any time you get a check engine light, the EXACT cause of the light can be determined be reading the accompanying code, leaving the fuel tank cap off can cause the light to come on, the code there won't say the cap is loose, it'll say something along the lines of a large leak in the EVAP or fume recovery system.

Cross contamination between the lubrication & cooling systems is bad, VERY BAD, it can be a simple issue, such as a leaking head gasket, it can be a warped head, which, depending on how badly warped it is, might be fixable, or it might need a replacement head, or it can be a major issue, such as a cracked head or block, at which point you're looking for a replacement engine.

Since these problems have shown up immediately after purchase, and as early as the drive home from the dealer, make it their problem - I wouldn't want to see that car again.

 

Yes definitely you have statutory rights as a buyer from a dealer - if unhappy with the car just return it for a full refund.

 

If the secondhand car dealer tries to fob you off let us know on this forum with the dealer's details as a warning to other potential customers. Also can you note specifically what the dealer says to you as he may be taking advantage of your lack of knowledge about cars.

 

Thanks everyone for your replies on this, it's quite daunting trying to negotiate with 2nd hand car dealers, So far Ive not had a response on what's wrong with the car and I also haven't had a refund. So no car AND no refund. I was hoping that it would be something simple like a coolant leak but after reading your comments I may have to go with the logical answer ... I will let you know what happened soon...

 

Check your statutory rights Ray - they will be in black and white text,if you need advice - Citizen's Advice is online and can help with consumer rights.

 

Hi ,

According to the CR Act I do have the right to return the vehicle however, I am now being told that culpability is still being considered, in relation to the fault. In other words the damage is probably extensive and giving me a refund and paying for the repairs will lead to a significant loss. The only information I have been given is that a pipe has split leading to a loss of coolant and an overheated engine. When I ask about the extent of the damage to the vehicle, I am told that they wont know that until they try to fit the new pipe that has been ordered from Suzuki and if the water circulates and the engine starts, the engines ok.

Wouldnt the mechanic usually dismantle the engine to check for damage? Are you able to check the head gasket and valves without this mysterious pipe that has split (that only Suzuki provide) ?

There is definitely a push for me to keep the car , worst case scenario: what would happen if I take the car back? Is there a way to guarantee that it wont break down again? Unfortunately I don't have a scary uncle that can talk sense to this guy and whenever I say the word refund I am presented with an argument about "liability." Because I may some how be at fault for the extent of the damage to the engine for not noticing that it had overheated.

 

Hi ,

According to the CR Act I do have the right to return the vehicle however, I am now being told that culpability is still being considered, in relation to the fault. In other words the damage is probably extensive and giving me a refund and paying for the repairs will lead to a significant loss. The only information I have been given is that a pipe has split leading to a loss of coolant and an overheated engine. When I ask about the extent of the damage to the vehicle, I am told that they wont know that until they try to fit the new pipe that has been ordered from Suzuki and if the water circulates and the engine starts, the engines ok.

You're being BSed.

First - assuming this is a gasoline (or petrol) engine, no coolant hose or pipe will allow the intermingling of oil & coolant. As I said earlier, at the very least there is a failed head gasket.

Second - a compression test can be done with no coolant in the engine, compression tests are done to determine the "general condition" of an engine, low numbers across all cylinders suggests a worn motor (or incorrect valve timing), significant variations between cylinders, point to a compression leak somewhere, possibly through a defective head gasket, the compression test can be followed by a leak down test, which may or may not provide conclusive data on the location of the compression leak.

The tests mentioned to this point can be done WITHOUT DISASSEMBLY of the engine - if the compression tests show evidence of a compression leak which cannot be pinpointed by a leak down test, the next step is disassembly and a visual examination.

The fact that you have mentioned oil in the coolant is as I said before, a VERY BAD SIGN, and on that basis ALONE, I would not want that vehicle - from what you are telling us, they already know "the damage is probably extensive", replacing the pipe/hose refilling it with coolant, starting it and handing it back to you is probably their intent, and then you're saddled with the problems after that.

There is definitely a push for me to keep the car , worst case scenario: what would happen if I take the car back? Is there a way to guarantee that it wont break down again? Unfortunately I don't have a scary uncle that can talk sense to this guy and whenever I say the word refund I am presented with an argument about "liability." Because I may some how be at fault for the extent of the damage to the engine for not noticing that it had overheated.

There is no way to guarantee it won't fail again, and whilst this is just my opinion, I'm inclined to say it's guaranteed to fail again and very soon - failing a refund, which is my first option, I would want some sort of extended warranty covering the entire powertrain, and that would have to be in writing.

I think it's time to get legal advice, maybe talk to the folks that bvs has suggested.

 

It is irrelevant what is wrong with the vehicle Ray - I would just firmly ask for full refund and as Fordem suggests above take legal advice if required - I personally would not want to keep any vehicle with a major defect.
Once you accept the vehicle back it may muddy the waters a bit - if you are entitled to a full refund just take it as quickly as possible.

 

Contact your council Trading Standards section ASAP - they will be delighted to take this up for you!

 

Appreciate the advice so far.

I have just been advised by the car dealer that the Head Gasket has gone, he claims that upon further investigation ( by a Suzuki garage), it appears that a stone from the road caused a crack in the raidiator leading to the engine to overheat. As a result of my continuing to drive the vehicle and not notice the engine was over heating the head gasket broke ( something along these lines). It has taken 10 days to come up with this story which he now claims can be verified by a Suzuki garage. I am therefore being held responsible for the fault. The frustrating thig abou this cowboy is that he had used this line of argument from the very beginning suggesting that he just needed more time to try and come up with a story that would be plausible but difficult to prove.

Any ideas on this? Surely a Suzuki Vitara 4 wheel drive is designed to deal with stones flicking up off the road?!

 

Why didn't the temperature gauge show the engine was overheating?

 

Temperature gauges don't tell you when the engine is overheating, they tell you the temperature of the coolant, if there is no coolant, then they don't work, there HAS to be coolant surrounding the gauge sender/sensor for it to be able to measure the temperature, so it's not only possible to loose the coolant and have the engine overheat without the gauge showing it, it's actually quite common.

I have just been advised by the car dealer that the Head Gasket has gone, he claims that upon further investigation ( by a Suzuki garage), it appears that a stone from the road caused a crack in the raidiator leading to the engine to overheat.

Go stick your head under the nose of the car and see when the radiator is located and what's underneath, chances of a stone striking the radiator, whilst not impossible, are in my opinion extremely low, the radiator is actually quite well protected, take a look yourself, and having done that, ask the car dealer, where the crack was, so you can see where the stone would have had to pass through.

You can also use feraltek's question against the dealer, ask them how were you supposed to notice the engine overheating, it never showed on the gauge.

 

Thanks for that about the gauge. What would the gauge and any warning icon display if the coolant was gradually leaking through a hole caused by a stone? And on a subsequent day, if all the coolant had drained, would there be any warning or different engine behaviour when starting and driving?

 

Generally speaking no, none of the vehicles I've owned over the years (five decades give or take) have had a way to indicate the coolant level is low (and that, by the way, includes a third gen GV) - I do remember, driving down the street going to a service call (back then I did tech support for the travel industry) and noticing the temperature gauge was higher than normal, I was about a block away from my next stop, so I continued and checked under the hood on arrival, there was a pinhole in the top radiator hose, and the system was loosing pressure rather than coolant.

I called my wife who was at home having lunch and asked her to bring the required hose, yes, I had a new one on the shelf, I replaced the hose, refilled the coolant and went on my merry way - I did purchase & replace all the remaining coolant hoses on the vehicle (a Suzuki Swift), shortly after that.

It was not just a coincidence that I had the required hose on the shelf, I had noticed the top hose was getting soft and knew it wasn't far away from a failure, I could have replaced it before it failed, pre-empting the failure, and were I doing more than "running around the city" I would have.

Routine preventative maintenance is important, if you need a reliable vehicle, you have to stay on top of the maintenance, you don't wait for a part to fail before replacing it, a quick "visual scan" once a week, can save a lot of grief, inconvenience & expense - I do my a lot of my own maintenance on my daily driver, but my daughters' vehicles go to a trusted independent mechanic, if he finds something that needs immediate attention, I'll get a phone call, if not, when I pick it up, I get a list of things that need to be addressed - you're going to need brake pads for the next service, or the control arm bushes are going, I get the parts and put them aside for the next service.

This approach doesn't really work when you've just acquired a used car, unless you take the used car and have your mechanic give it a once over.

 

You say you've only had the car for a week. In this time have you been on any roads covered in loose rocks where the radiator could have been damaged? If not, then the damage occured before you bought the car and would have overheated then, probably damaging the engine. In which case the dealer sold you a car that already, or was about to, suffer the consequences of previous negligence and is therefore fully liable to cover repair costs. By the way I just had a look through the grill of my GV and cannot see how a rock could have damaged the radiator without first punching a hole in the a/c condenser in front of the radiator. Also it seems almost impossible that a rock could bounce up from underneath. Most likely the Suzuki people pressure-tested the cooling system and detected a leak from the radiator and someone just guessed a rock must have hit it without thinking it through.

 

By the way I just had a look through the grill of my GV and cannot see how a rock could have damaged the radiator without first punching a hole in the a/c condenser in front of the radiator. Also it seems almost impossible that a rock could bounce up from underneath.

Here's a guy (or gal) that's on the ball - the bumper almost literally wraps around underneath the radiator, and the a/c condenser is front of it - the exact reason I said the chances of stone damage were extremely low.

 

Guy. It now seems the dealer's story has more holes in it than the radiator!

 

I just looked at ours. There is ( almost) no way a stone could punch the radiator…and on our farm, I take the GV over a lot of loose stony ground…never had a problem. I think you have been sold a huge lemon. Get your money back now!,

 

A mechanic advised me that this would be the only possible way that a fault could occur accidentally as a result of driving it over such a short period of time (he's not connected to the dealer). Its reassuring to know that you live on a farm and the car may be exposed to rocks rather than small pieces of gravel and you've never had a problem!

 

So the bare bones of the issue is that I'm still no closer to getting a refund and I still dont know where the vehicle is. And even worse still... the explanation given is actually not based on a mechanical inspection from either of the garages ( as they have told me that they havent had time to look at the car yet)! According to quotes Ive had so far a professional engineers report ( to determine the cause of the fault) will cost hundreds of pounds. It seems like I may have to cooperate with the dealer to a certain extent just to know where my car is and have a change of getting my money refunded but in doing so the problem becomes worse. Its like having your arm twisted behind your back! As Fordem said in the very beginning he's blatantly b'ssing me ( and i dont think he means blessing me).

 

Have you looked online for customer reviews of this dealer? Often this will give an idea ot the dealer's reputation and what recourse others have used to get some satisfaction. There was one Suzuki dealer in Queensland Australia who had dozens of really bad (one star) reviews but he also had a couple of hundred brief 5 star reviews with nothing much in between which was odd as no other dealer seemed to have more than 50 reviews in total. Not very difficult to guess which reviews were genuine.

 

T

 

To give you an idea… this is the last 40ks of the road into the farm. I drive this at 70 to 80 kph. Have done it 100s of times, never any damage. I’m trying to find some pics of the GV in some of the paddocks.

 

Have you taken legal advice yet ??
Time ticks on and it may affect your rights.
The car has to have been of saleable quality.
The car can be rejected by the customer but not sure how long that 'grace period' is - you need to get professional/legal help with this dealer

 

Its not really going to make a difference at the moment, as my legal rights can't be enforced at this stage. In addition both the car and the dealer have gone AWOL

 

Panic over, I now know where it is in theory. Communication has been re-established

 

But you still dont have a running car.!

 

Good point - Thanks to everyone that has posted on this topic, your posts have been very enlightening ! I almost definately have gone with a repair had I not have posted here first.

Back to aquanaut20's point - What are the top 10 things I need to look out for when buying a second hand Suzuki Grand Vitara - on this occassion I went through every detail on my checklist and couldnt have anticipated that a blown head gasket would happen within a week.

What should I look out for in the future and should I avoid models over a certain age?

 

I bought mine on CarSales.com.au, got a Carsales Facts+ History Report and had it inspected by a RedBook mechanic. He supplied a two dozen page report with many detail photos and phoned me to talk through it. That cost about $250 five years ago.

 

And the story goes cold ?