1988 Escudo, so you are a carburetor car and not fuel injected, correct??
Regarding your thermostat, make sure that the air bleed hole on the thermostat is facing the front of the engine. I don't know much about auto chokes, but before you throw parts at it, you need to diagnose it correctly. I suppose the first thing you should do is remove the air filter and see if the choke is indeed, opening and closing when the revs are going up and down, to see if that is your problem. Have you done that? Other carb guys with better info on this engine will give more info, but diagnosis of your problem should be first.
Either way, your hot idle should be lower than 1200 rpm. Can you give more info on the car, if any mods have been done, how it runs, etc.

 

No mods done to it. It has fuel injection (noisy but I've been told it's common in this model). The butterfly seems to be opening and closing (had the air intake off) and the idle is fluctuating still. I unplugged the injector and throttle control and though there was an injector lag, the idle wasn't fluctuating. The auto choke is activated by water temp and I don't know if the wax (?) chamber is operating correctly. Is it really wax in there??

 

No auto choke on the fuel injected engine. You have a dashpot on the throttle body that, on cold start, opens for about 10 seconds, so car revs to about 2000 rpm. Dashpot closes in 10 seconds, and the idle drops quickly to about 1500 rpms. Then the idle is governed by the idle air valve, which is on the side of the throttle body. This is a mechanical wax pellet valve that slowly closes as the car warms up. When this valve is closed, the idle is then regulated by the idle speed sensor and the computer.
So, we start again with better info.
First, EFI is NOT noisy, even in your car.
I assume that your car is an 8v engine. On all 8v engines, if there is ANY vacuum leak at all, the engine will idle high. This is not an injector problem (and do not hot wire the injector EVER).
So, to start again - describe exactly what your car does from cold start. Does dashpot close? Does idle drop as car warms up?
Does the car warm up to proper running temp (at least 180F)? Do you have the proper thermostat in there, with the PROPER gasket so that coolant ONLY goes through the thermostat and not around it? (Do you have good heat inside the car??)
There is tons of info on this site for you:
The KickFix Repair Pages, for Sidekicks and Trackers
And stay away from mechanics that are not familiar with this car!!
Normally, idle is not an issue on its own, but is caused by something else:
Vacuum leaks, car not reaching proper running temp, fuel pressure, etc.
For vacuum leaks, you can pinch each of the vacuum hoses and see which one brings down your idle - then you have found what is leaking.
You also have a check engine light that determines the health of the computer. This light should go on with the key in the on position, and then off once the car is running. Does it?
All information assumes that your car is tuned up properly (spark plugs gapped to .028"), good engine with good compression (about 170 on each cylinder, tested hot and wide open throttle), good timing (proper ignition timing and timing belt), etc.
So, give more info!!

 

OK will do! First I need to have a really good close look at it. AND I will post a couple of pics so we can all see what I've got.



First things first however, I need to get my final exam for this semester out of the way (Monday) and I have to really put some effort in coz the young 'uns will make me look like a silly old man!

Thanks for the directions!!

 

take a photo of engine and attached it.
or
look here.
for id of said engine.
do you know how tell the difference from TBI and CARB
TBI means , Throttle body INjection. carbs dont have injector(s)

how-to-find-EFI-parts

last , do you wish help.
try, posting the motor type and fueling type system and the driving symptoms.
and this forum is NOT 1988., you are on wrong forum
cheers.

 

More on the mysterious rev issue! After poking and prodding and jiggling and wiggling of wires, switches, vacuum lines and the like under the hood, we narrowed it down to one of two things - the map sensor (located just above the id plate on the firewall or the single point injector. After ringing all over NZ I sourced a map sensor for $95 (NZ) but no injector. While talking to the very helpful gentleman he suggested I ring another guy who apparently knows Escudo's in depth. So I rang him and he told me a couple of very interesting things...

1) It is NOT the map sensor! The problem (he's had it it and fixed it) is in one of the temp sensors mounted to the inlet manifold located under/near the thermostat housing. Upon investigating I've found that the green one (?) is cracked and loose so will need replacing. The others in that area will probably get replaced as well.

2) I've been putting 91 octane in the tank. The injectors don't like 91! So I should put an injector clean fluid through at the same time as I fill the tank with 96. That will help the injector run a lot smoother and give it a clean as well.

So, once I've done these two things, I'll let you all know how it goes!
I'll also post a couple of pics as soon as I take them!

 

Gidday, Where did you get the idea the injectors dont like our 91octane? These things are designed for 89 octane. Fuel injector cleaner will help initally, as our fuel is crudely refined.

 

Yes, I run 91 octane with no problem at all. The sensor you are talking about is the ECT (coolant temp sensor) - when this is broken, your ECU does not know that your car has warmed up, is not in closed loop, and is working off a pre-defined set of values, rather than the actual car temp. Needs to be replaced.
ECT-testing
The sensor next to it is the IAT, for air temp.
(MAP sensors rarely go wrong on this car).

 

Finally! Photos as requested.
1. Engine
2. & 3. Broken ECT and IAT sensor
4. ID plate

After ringing around I got put onto a guy in Palmy North (George Walker) who pointed out the ECT problem. He also suggested that a tank of 96 out of every 3 or 4 fills would go a long way to quieting the injector (I'll put an injector clean through it as well). braack - if you're in HB (Napier) I'd appreciate a bit of advice (point and laugh will do too) on the Scud.

 

no choke there, that is 1989 car not a 88, right.
that is an old style TBI set up.
yes, ECT is toast. (why are u running it, kick it to curb and get on, with a new one)

from a Carb perspective, the ECT is kinda a choke, cept vastly smarter.
that chassis tag say JDM car. ( jap docs)
the EGR is blocked off (can be factory) nice photography and no more guessing !!!
you have O2.
so do you have a CAT ?

first off , you mis ID all parts on TBI system. including butterfly , injector and ISC.

send, off, this car is not noted for injector noise. in fact it is silent.
gee, buy $4 stethoscope and listen to it running.

the buttery fly is the main throttle valve and it must never flap or rattle. !
(if it did, they some Yoyo set the cables tight (up to 3 cables)

what does rattle on all 89s, not 88 , is the ISC, that funny thing on the top
right of TB. see it with 2 wires.
after 20 years , of buzzing at 200 hertz it just , goes buggered.
all do.


sure its not the MAP, read past posts. it says,
MAPS never fail (posted like 100 times here ,search !)
only the wires to it or the vacuum line goes bad (no vacuum)
not one proven bad MAP this forum ever. lots of accusations. but not one.
lots of MAFs but never MAP.

and top fail is:
1: bad sensors.
2: bad wires to sensors
3: broken sensors (yours)
4: vacuum lines bad,or mis-routed.
5: exh cracked near 02, (curtains for 02)

fix the bad
tune it up
then post. ( and avoid rumors, fix YOUR CAR , not some using what some bloke had wrong 5 years ago)

 

Thanks for that, OAF. I can only go by what the tags say and they say 1988. Whether that's correct or it has a different motor to original - I don't know.

Well looky here what gave up and fell off this morning while trying to investigate what the shape the plug is! The thing literally popped off and fell on the ground. The first photo is the front view showing the plug profile and the second shows how long it had been broken for.

I've had a hell of a time trying to replace this part as all the manuals the shops have, show only the 1990 models onwards. The ECT plug head has a different profile to those ones so I've had to source a second hand one... we'll see how long that lasts!
Question - Can I install another sensor (2 wire, same temp) if I change the female end to match? As far as I know the sensor is only detecting temp and opening or closing a switch depending on that temp? If that's the case should it be a straight swap - for both the female end of the plug and the sensor?

 

that tag is year built. not year sold new.
cars can be 6 mouths newer than 1989 and still be 89 model.
ever wonder how all those cars just happen to be ready jan 1989?
magic. LOL

that ECT is not like all 93 market cars.
yours is a JDM
and has special parts.

id just put on a real ECT and wiring it in some way. if near a wrecker bet the harness connector off a non JDM an use that.

id even get ECT and solder to the pins with good wire and heat shrink them.
then id have an ECT with pig tails.
for there its childs play. right?
here is automotive grade , generic connector, water proof.
Waterproof Cable to Cable Electrical Connectors

 

I thought they just got some Suzuki seeds and plucked them when they're ripe. You mean to tell me that's not how it's done??


Maybe you're not an OAF afterall! I have the loom and plugs etc for a late model ECT AND a wrecked 88/89 Scud ECT sensor and will be installing at least one of them - hopefully tomorrow!

 

Installed new ECT sensor. Revs still alternating. The search continues...

 

welcome to PO , H3LL (rolling stone,father was......)
i'd say, everyone buys a kick
then finds all 10 things missed/busted by PO. that didnt fix anything.
SSDD.

now , id have plugged in the new ECT.
then , got motor hot,
IR GUN on STAT housing saw 170f with means water in side is 180f
and id look age guage , its mid scale, (no? , its bad too , SSDD)
then id KEY off
and unplug ECT , and measure the ohms on the actual sensor. and saw 300.
300 = 180F (about)
ECT is now put to bed.

bad idle.
step2 is , is TPS idle switch closed at idle. if not, idle controls are dead.

step 3... well that is another post....

congrats on finding JDM parts, those are special skills..... no envy,,,,

 

Revs still alternating

please elaborate that.

hot, cold, racing in park, driving fast, slow. hot , cold block. and Wide open throttle.
only when coming to a stop?
i call that a factorial;
it paints clear picture of the envelope of power from the engine.

or does car run perfect, get 25-30mpg and only idle is unstable.?

that connector was scary to me. looks like Ignitor connector and those are hell to remove. ! how did you find it ?

 

Ok. Revs are alternating once the vehicle is warm, between 1200 - 2500 rpm. It is an intermittent problem so I'm not guaranteed that it will occur consistently - therefore diagnosing the issue is proving tough. It does not happen if the vehicle (a manual gearbox 4wd) is in gear only when it is in neutral. Fuel mileage seems to be fine though I haven't had it for a long time so don't know what it was like prior to this issue.
Current thoughts are to check and replace all vacuum lines (at least one needs replacing.) I've put a tank of higher octane fuel in it and will put in some injector cleaner tomorrow as suggested by a guy in another town (NZ).

OAF - you typed a whole lot of strange words to me :mellow: (being a newbie - remember I have enough tools and knowledge to be dangerous NOT useful!)
I'm trying to learn it all but I am new to Suzuki's and swinging a wrench in any meaningful way. But I got enough brians to figure it out with a little help...
These words are as close as I can figure to a translation;

PO = POO (as in "You're in the poo"):blink:
H3LL = Hell - bad place, devils live there:devil:
SSDD = Super Service Double D's - everyone loves a bikini clad buxom gal :whistling:don't they? (not sure what they have to do with an Escudo though)
IR GUN = Infra Red Gun? For shooting Infra Red things?:gunsmilie:
STAT = I need it now doc!B)
JDM = Japanese Damn Manufactured (damn those Japs??)h34r:
ECT = Engine Coolant Temperature (sensor) - sourced and it works!:thumbsup:
TPS = Throttle Position Sensor

So that's where I'm at right now... Gonna send a sms to braack tomorrow and see if he can offer any thoughts (he's in the next town over)

 

Current thoughts are to check and replace all vacuum lines (at least one needs replacing.).

Do the vacuum lines next, they're cheap & easy & if you have 1 bad there's a good change that's your trouble... or at least adding to it.

 

PO = previous owner
STAT = thermostat
IR gun - infrared thermometer
JDM = Japanese Domestic Market
Have you tested your fuel pressure?
Does your check engine light go on with key in on position and then off once car is running?

 

OP = original poster. PO is prev. owner, dont mix it up , there is test at 11pm.
ssdd ,same sh|tt different day.


of the 4000 SAE and (ASE) jargon words, i use only about 30
the ones the make car go, only
well cept SSDD.

 

vsig :Escudo, 1600cc, Manual 4wd, G16A, NZ model 89 (mfg in fiscal year 88)
we can fix it. but it must stay broken long enough to do so
only god him self can fix working cars. i sure can not. nor can walk on water.
lets pretend its broke.

what do i do when idle goes mad (wonkey, berserk, crazy, flapping about, or varies)?

gee this is 8v car , so easy.
the rule of TBI.
all air leaks cause high idle at all times all 8v. and never never ever goes lean.
any air leak results in full power and fast idle.
with that one bit of knowledge you are empowered.

so with idle going nuts.
i say to self, gee is ECU doing that ,or is bloody AFR lean.
lets find out.
its racing hot and varying.

i unplug the ISC (on 89 that is PITA, on last one i did had to cut the wire)
the ISC is shared with 1 more vital so you can just simply unplug it alike 91s.
i kill the ISC, did idle drop to 400 rpm and stop hunting
NO ? major vacuum leak.
yes, ECU is doing. ?

i will stop here because this test , sends me on 2 differnent long paths.
and i refuse to do both.
id put a toggle switch in the ISC wire and have the test gun loaded for failure.
see?
idle goes crazy and snap the switch to open.

 

varying idle is symptom. HOPE THIS POST HELPS YOU other 8V owners......
leave the screws alone, do not tweak it.

it means :
1: ecu is lost. (lots of paths here)
2: AFR is bad. (few paths)

(usually not spark)
think about the ISC
what is it , what does it do.?

it regulates idle
if there is an air leak and ECU closes down the ISC to compensate and the ECU cant get 800 rpm; the ecu then starts resetting and trying over and over,, it's maniacal.
(to a fault)
NEXT:?
same story, idle is too low now, iSC opens and fails to reach 800RPM
ECU hunts the ISC, that is its bailiwick. It's "JONES". (software really)

now imagine, no air leaks, no lack of air. no bad iSC , no dead TPS. no bad MAP
no bad ECT, no bad IAT
the motor is running and all senors are good, (no scan tool right, sadly)
NEXT 2: ?
but the ISC is hunting
well imagine again. that the AFR is lean (forget why now)
but is lean
well, what happens?, well, i can tell you,the rpm dropd like a rock.
why, well motor is starving for fuel and you motor cant make power, so RPM drops
what does ECU do.?

well, it opens the ISC. ( what else?) (ok it tried to inject more and failed)
OOPS. it went more lean, ooops,,,,,,, and ISC cycles like mad, why because the
stupid ECU dont know that a lean motor cant idle, it's stupid as a brick.
so i add propane and the idle goes smooth.
oh my, it was lean, see?
gee fuel pressure is 10psi. oh my, no wonder stupid 80s designed dumb brick ecu cant figure this out. (it was really toy ecu back then)

that is how i think about this car , this year, other cars are diffr.

the ecu controls spark, fuel and idle.
and does a piss poor job of systemic ops. (inter-relationships)
but does drop to limphome and forget to tell you.
and has zero or 1 monitor. piss poor. to a fault.

but we love it.. LOL

 

for others 91+
you only need to pinch the ISC air hose.
1 second test to see if iSC hunt (seemingly) is , ECU derived.? or not.

if 89/90 others block ISC with , guess what, duct tape. yes, believe it or not.
and is effective.
I off the bastard and pack the ports with monkey sh|t
called in the electric trade that or white collars say electrical mastic putty.
never gets hard. putty.
monkey poop it and be happy.

 

auto choke has bubbles

, you better find a real EFI mechanic.
he is right with water heated choke carbs , right as rain.
but not for you.

you car has magic choke. call it a virtual choke.
the ECU can SEE the water jacket temperatures at all times, and does look constantly
the ECU then :
Injects fuel based on: (but not spark in 89, your ecu is sparkless)
water temperature
altitude.
air temp.
rpm
engine load
throttle angle (driver demands)
air flow into the induction. (reality)
and does so , so perfectly it puts all carbs ever made, to shame.
ever run a carb at 10,000 feet and -40F.?
your EFI will. (well after we fix the lil bugger)

 

Thank you Bog! VERY informative.

I've now changed an obviously cracked and leaky vacuum line. This seems to be the solution - I'll monitor it and let you know. Cautiously optimistic. and now to the other issues - clutch, ball joint, sway arm bushes, CV boot and rust spots.

I have to admit to feeling pretty gutted by this vehicle. I had a 'mechanic' look at it and give it the thumbs up prior to purchase. But the issues have left me feeling deflated to say the least.
We'll call it a learning curve.

Thank you all for your help and directions (thus far)

 

Don't be 'gutted'. Remember, this car is almost 25 years old, and may not have been maintained well by the previous owner. Tons of info here for you:
The KickFix Repair Pages, for Sidekicks and Trackers.
These cars are pretty easy to fix, Suzuki still supports them so parts are available, and if maintained properly, can last for a very long time. Also quite fun to drive. Be optimistic!