JDM engine.
distributor timed 180 out, or spark wires wrong position.

I hope you validated the cam timing and the igniton timing (static).
check spark with dummy spark plug.
checked compression . (do on any new engine)
who knows what someone else did.?

if its flooded and you know spark is good.
try Wide Open throttle as the causes ECU to shut off
injectors completely. called unflood mode.

after all that , an spark is good and engine is dry.
try some instant start.?
just a 1 second squirt in to any vacuum port.


your CAS is working or youd get no injection
TPS is what starts engine.
Cold start uses TPS to start , with known values.
Cold start is very simplistic, CAS, TPS, Engine coolant temp sensor (is it hot or cold start).
it gives the engine about a 2.5 ms squirt of gas each cas pulse.

make sure that your ISC is not stuck closed.
this will keep air from entering the engine and make it
very rich. to test this theory , just lightly touch throttle and crank.

 

Before I put the JDM in the vehicle I put a new timing belt and new seals on it. I was very careful to make sure the timing belt and cam timing were correct. While the engine was in the engine stand I set the distributor with number one at tdc so I am pretty sure the distributor and plug wires are correct. According to my manual the firing order is 1-3-4-2, right? I have checked the plugs and I have good fire and set the ingnition timing at about 7 deg BTDC with a timing light cranking the engine with the starter. That should be close enough to start and I'll reset it when I get it running. The plugs, wires, cap and rotor button are all new and the distributor is off the old engine.

Ok, so I tried the start with wide open throttle and it kinda stumbled but wouldn't run for more that a few seconds. I'll have to get some starter fluid and try that. But if I have a problem that is causing it to run this rich, that doesn't seem to address what might be causing it. Will getting it running like this clear an injector or something?

I am somewhat overwhelmed by all the TLAs. I think I got most of them sorted out, but what is the ISC?

Thanks for your help.

 

yes, 1342 but DIZZY is backwards turning! CCW !
backwords from mine ,see link;

dizzy

my Dizzy is at 11pm your must be 5pm ! TDC 0 and Cams not touching valves on #1 cyl.
some guys put the wires wrong to make up for that 180 error. "ugly"


i have a better idea (i hope)
just because this is a virgin new engine and an alien car.
new harness, new ecu and new engine and senors, right?

under the ECU was a relay called the FPR relay,
Fuel pump relay (has a green socket on mine)
pull the relay ( to kill the dang pump) ( no seperate fuse on kicks)
crank it with WOT ( if loaded with gas , it must run till dry)
then get it to run on a little bit of propane or starting fluid.
Propane is safest all around. (no fuel pump)

Remove air cleaner element , give it a 3 second blast of propane,or 1 second of starter spray.

what is best now is to do a what I call a rock and roll test.
if the engine and spark are heathy ,then it will light off like a rocket.
verrrrrooooommmmmmm ,die.

you can hear that is runs good , Visual , audio , all that.
listen for knocks or any strange sounds.
I'd do that 3 times ,just so I feel good about that virgin engine.

With a helper , you can even run the engine on propane.
one guy meters, gas, the other plays a tad of gas pedal.

1/8th throttle , slow leak of propane will keep car going forever; sort of.

I'm sure you know of this, it is mostly for other readers.

alternately:
but get that FP killed,
then crank it wide open throttle.

make sure you are not 180 out that DIZZY. very easy to do. too easy.




make sure your FPR (regulator of fuel on front of rail ) is not bad.
check its diaphram for leaks. (leak down)

get it to run good on Propane and validate the spark is good.
Verrooommm = spark , compresson and cam all all in ball park.

still bad?
so now we can bite the bullet :
Pull the injectors and make sure they are not dribbling.

injection

the above is from my Miata FSM.
one can even test them under pressure with tie wraps .

Might I ask: How'd you get all those sensors wired with 87 harness.
sorry if answer is long to that, did you get a 94 harness tied in there.
MAF sensor , TPS, OXY, Water Temp, ?

last ( I hope ECU isnt bad)
does the CEL lamp glow when key on and no start.
does CEL lamp flash code 12 when the diag jumper is jumpered.
if no , ECU is sick.

there are 3 tests ( #3 you can do yet)
sick ECU , goes to special rich , and barely run mode.
sicK:
ECU
CEL codes:
CEL


lets get this puppy , running !

 

I got the CCW thing.

Putting this Sidekick engine in a Samurai is pretty common. There are a couple of outfits that sell the adapter kit and will modify the original Sidekick harness to splice into the Samurai harness with detailed instructions on what to connect where. All the sensors hook up to the Sidekick harness and the rest of the car runs on the Samurai harness. I had it running with the Sidekick engine for a couple of years without any problems till I dropped that valve. The only new part here is the engine, that is, the "long block" from the JDM.

Even though I had the instrument cluster modified to add the speed sensor that the Sidekick FI needs, it doesn't have a CEL that works like the Sidekick so I don't get codes. As I said, I replaced the ECU with a rebuilt one (with a one year warranty) so I think it is OK.

I suspect the problem is related to the car sitting up for 18 months in the back yard but finding the exact problem doesn't seem very straighforward. I'll try the starter fluid to get it running but it seems that the problem may be with the injectors. Either that or the new plugs are so fouled from being flooded that I need to replace them too.

I have a Sidekick pump installed in the Samurai tank and I have unplugged it in some of my earlier trouble shooting so that is no problem.

 

I still say; kill the fuel pump and run it on propane
if it wont run on propane , the engine is bad. (ecu,coil,or mechanics)
OTC even sells the kit to do this, it is not "black art"
But any torch will work,
unscrew nozze on end , put on hose, away you go.

See My binary logic ( cut the problem in half , no guessing)
The binary trouble shooting method. it is called.


assuming spark is perfect and timing and the cam timing.

The ECU if alive, will pulse the coil just fine if the CAS is pulsing.

reciept for spark:
coolant temperature sensor at high ohms , indicating cold block.
Cas signal perfect and timed at REAL TDC , not 180out.
next it must see TPS voltage at a low value ,not 5 vdc refr. (not WOT)

under those conditions the coil will get hit (minus lead) with pulses ,
synrconised by the CAS.
you will get a fat spark, if not , you have ignition failure.

I use a specail clamp on test spark plug that has huge spark gap
it demonstrates the huge High energy of these spark systems.
a fat blue hot spark.


I would not make any assumtions about any car parked for 18 months.
Id start with the basics if diagnosis.

Ive seen mice crawl up an induction snort and plug it solid.
See it all.
we have pack rats here that eat insulation for breakfast.
very destructive.


I have a question:
did you time the cams per the 16v procedure ,
did you time the Dizzy with the valve cover off and make sure the #1 is at TDC?
Im sure you did but just asking. (to get a base line)

I have the factory procedures if you need them in pdf, can email them.

I am still wondering if you did a compression test on the JDM engine (is that one of those used 50k imported engines?)
I'd expect 155 psi on all 4, or more. ( if all at 50psi , cams are timed wrong. (less than 90 deg, as more causes pistons hit the valves )

 

Thanks. You are right, it is best to eliminate the most basic issues by getting it running. Thanks for the help. I'm out of town this week so I'll try it this weekend if it doesn't rain.

I didn't check the compression myself, but the company I bought the JDM from supplied a spec sheet saying that they had checked it with a pressure for each cyl. It was within spec. Of course it could be bogus but I have a warranty. The compression felt good when I cranked it over by hand on the engine stand. I don't have a way to check the compression so I guess I'll take it on faith for now.

I'll get back to you with the results...

Thanks again.

 

OK, I have done the diagnostics as you suggested. I don't have the luxury of a check engine light with codes I can use and while I have the "diagnotic plug" available I don't have the equipment to hook up to it. I have not yet tried the jumper to "freeze" the timing either.

I pulled the valve cover and the timing cover. The cam is at the proper position when #1 is TDC and the distributor is pointing at #1. I had good fire on a test plug, though I don't have anything to compare it to it looked plenty hot. The firing order is correct and takes into account the ccw rotation of the distributor. The number one wire is in the proper position on the distributor cap (according to Haynes, anyway).

I had the fuel pump disconnected and went through about 2 cans of starter fluid into the power brake port (not all at once...) and it would start. No big VARROOOOMMM, but it would get up to about 2K rpm and run for maybe 30 seconds before the starter fluid ran out. It wouldn't rev cleanly in this mode, in fact, it seemed very sluggish, but that is probably to be expected without a truly metered fuel flow. I tried to stream a little gas in with the starter fluid but the results were about the same. I kept at it until the exhaust system was actually warm all the way back to the tail pipe.

I don't have a setup to let me get propane into the engine and I don't have anyone to meter the gas flow if I did, so I didn't try that one. I think that the engine setup is basically good though.

When I hooked up the fuel pump again, it still flooded out. So, I replaced the injectors. It was probably not really necessary but now it doesn't seem to be too rich when I try to start it (the plugs are kind of sooty but not dripping wet) but it still won't run. What is does instead is "try to start" ... That is, it will hit as the starter turns the engine over but doesn't ever do it enough to run on it's on. Throttle position doesn't seem to affect it much though I get the best (if you can call it that) result on WOT.

I'm at a loss about where to go from here. I think I'll get out my multi-meter and take a crack at checking the TPS, I have some instructions in my Haynes manual on how to do a simple test or two on it.

When you start a Sidekick, does the computer retard or advance the spark? I have set the timing with the timing light and the starter turning over the engine at about 7 degrees, but if the computer retards or advances the spark significantly when starting, it may not be close enough to start or run, but I just don't know.

I'm about out of options here. Any other ideas out there?

 

The rotor will fit in three different positions which is really stupid but will only run well in one of the three. It changes the point that the injection of fuel occurs into the intake for the piston going down on intake stroke compared to the piston ready to fire on compression stroke. I am not sure at this point the correct position of the rotor in relation to the CAS tabs. Make sure you mark where you are at now and try it in the other positions. I have been trying to get someone to post a picture of the 16v 1.6 dist. with a piece of tape around the number one spark plug wire. There isn't a correct picture in any manual and especially the Haynes manual. They all seem to address the 8v motors. Best to throw your Haynes manual in the dumpster or fire place if you own the 16v engine.

 

It sounds like WAY retarded ignition timing. A quick check would be to advance the distributor to confirm, and then nail the setting to spec later.

That 3-way rotor positioning info is interesting as well. Bottom line...still a timing issue.

 

i just posted how to do it on alderair , post. (dizzy set)
see p0300 post , end page.

16 engines are timed at 5pm. (not 11pm ).


first lets get a ref. point.
grab dizzy , put on the cap. now mark the 5pm postion.
onto the rim of this dizzy, I use scribe and a liquid paper paint.
no there is no question of where #1 is, this also places the CAS pointer in the exaction position too. (mech. locked in side)

next look at DIZZY , put the wired connector at you tummy and the far dizzy screw hole is 12pm.
now read my post. please.

http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki...i-sidekick-escudo-vitara-geo-tracker/21619-1996-geo-tracker-p0300-code-16v.html


back to r4990.
I am trying to understand the frankenkick (said kindly)
old car, old harness, newer ecu and newer engine.
and a magic harness adaptor (funny im making one too now)

first let me tell you that that ECU will squirt the injectors any time:
"AND" LOGIC:
Yes, CAS pulse into ECU.
yes, high enough crank speed. 300? (no one knows exact)
and the ECU reads back a signal from the coil insuring that there is
coil primary signal ( spark must be good) yes,
then it Injects. ( also it looks for crank signal 12vdc)
if the rotor is set wrong, you will pump gas. and do nothing
BY design. ( dumb ECU cant see rotor tip)

if your car runs good with gas (squirted in with sprizer) or Instant start or propane , then the rotor is pointed correct.
you said you could spin engine and you get 7 d BTDC.
so your static timing is ok.

I think your engine is starving for AIR. ( it must have air)
if rotor was off by 1 hole or worse then the engine would shake and cough like crazy . like a dog with a bone. USING iNSTANT START.

Things to check:
read that post about 5pm cap rotor position #1 and BAckwards rotating dizzy (comp. to 8v)

your Old harness will not support asking for DTC cel codes.
you will never be abLEo envoke the command to freeze timing or to ask for DTC codes. (?)

i think you AsC is wired wrong. Idle air control valve on TB.
or
the High Idle is not working, that diaphram on inside edge of TB
holds the throttle open. via a VSV valve. (IF THERE)

with good plugs try starting with 5% throttle applied.
too bad we cant get DTC and code 12 affirmation that ECU is at least alive. Check engine light needs to be wired.

If it were mine. I'd have done all the basics once light off failed.
compression
cam timing validation
crank bolt , and key way inspection. ( many fail this 90-95)
ignition timing. ( can be done with cam timing at once)
then starting fluid.
must start , run smooth and spin up and die.
may take repeats to clear out crud in cyl. but once it runs on
propane , you have a good engine. ( FIDDLE ARE AND FUEL)

Given your frankenkick condition.
I'd validate each of the 20 critical wires the run the engine from ECU.
Im wiring one now, from a list.
They are:
ATS
ECT
TPS
+5ref to TPS
CAS (ok if spark is good)
IAC
Injector 1 to 4
12vdc to each pin needed per schematic
Coil ignitor ( skip if spark is good)
Fuel pump relay command ( ok, you have a flood)
OXY
mine has 4 ground wires (all needed)
then one more , fast idle valve ( not certain 16v has it)

I would do one other thing (first really)
make sure the EGR valve is not stuck open with carbon)
its easy and can really muck things up.

Those are my thougts I hope it proves helpful and timely.
happy holidays. jerry

 

Thanks

Thanks for all your help.

I'm going to do a couple of the "deeper" tests like the noid light and rig an injector tester with the intake off the JDM (which I couldn't use).

My frustration level is pretty high. It would be different if this was the first install of the 16v in the Samurai, but it was in and running for over two years before it dropped the valve. The only new part was basically the long block and it checked good before I installed it. It just sat up for about 18 months and that was probably the source of all the problems.

At this point I have replaced almost everything there is to replace. New fuel pump, filter, injectors, plugs, wires, dist cap, rotor, and coil. It no longer runs super rich after I replaced the injectors, it just won't run.

Gaaaaaaaa!

Thanks again.

...Sparks

 

the key here, and we cant hear your engine. is:

How does it sound running on manually fed InstantSTART , or propane.
if the engine spins up and sound real good , (we cant hear that )
then the following are good.
compression, Spark , (timing on all items might be kinda off and this can pass test)

Are you saying now, car will not start but now the injectors are not spraying.
are you saying the engine no longer floods , during the crank cycle.

"but then floods out. I remove the plugs and they are dripping with fuel and, of course, the exhaust smells like fuel as well."

The inner workings of the ECU brain:
if car floods , it is not the injectors (assuming they are stock size)
it is because:
1: the cold start Air supply is wrong. ( not sure all your supples, but ISC is #1)
2: Spark is way too advanced;
3: cam timing is way that heck off ( but good enough to start with Istart)
#3 kills #2 too.

spark , compression and timing, if these are all validated, then the problem is that
that Air supply is wrong.

Your computer has a fixed fuel map hardcoded into the ROM memory.
this may is simple ( it looks at TPS value, then looks up AIR in the table , the number it finds is about 10:1 Air to fuel , the number it gets is the fuel value for THAT TPS value.

If the TPS is wrong, the fuel will be wrong.
If the Temperature from that ECT is wrong ( lets say it reads -40C [wrong]) the ECU will
generate fuel based on -40C , way too rich.

The ISC must supply the correct amount of air, if it provide the wrong amount during crank ,(if LOW) then the mixture will be RICH , way too rich)


Your car may be crying or AIR:

id clean the heck out of that ISC , and look for a Fast idle diaphragm in the throttle arm on TB, (8v have it but not sure 16v has one) , but it can really mess up AIR.
BOTH.

 

Fuel thing

I've rechecked the cam and ignition timing and both are good to go. The airway is clear from the filter inlet to the engine. I got good spark, good fuel supply, good ecu (reconditioned), reconditioned injectors (not new but new to me), and so forth.

I'll go back through the process. IE, get it running on starter fluid without the fuel pump, recheck the injectors, maybe even go back to the old set of injectors. I may have tried to do too much at one time in my impatience to get it running. Maybe I missed something.

I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks.

 

are you flooding still? on cold start and wetting the plugs?

remove the ISC.
make sure, it passes air in and out , easy when cold, ( is use my lips, one can use a tube)
if it doent do this it is bad. and car WILL FLOOD.
then I apply 12 to the coil, if I can not detect , the solenoid opening and closing and letting more air pass thru , then it is bad.

first test starts engine, second part keeps it running at idle HOT.
they both have to work perfectly our you will be very unhappy .

I think your engine is aok , now.
it just needs working Injection.

ECu must see a COLD engine ( at the correct accurate temperature ,not railed)
the ECT if it has anopen circuit (anywhere) will go to a high voltage , 4.5v and this tells
ECU engine is -40C centigrade ( so dumps tons of fuel)
just one little broken wire and the world is crap.

TPS voltage must be low , ECT must be at the value for YOUR ambient temp ,tell me?
tell me your ambient or look it up here.
at room temp , your ECT must be around 2000 ohms.
the ohms increases from this point as you get COLDER.
if the ECU sees the wrong value , Cold start will be way off.

if you had a scope you could watch the injections Pulse Widths, and I could tell you
exactly what the ECU is thinking.

The TPS, this device tells the ECu how far open the throttle plate REALLY is.
if the TPS is set such that it says I am open really wide, then the ECU does math
and creates fuel demand based on lots of Air, rich if there is not really lots of air.
the tps must be good and it must be calibrated per the FSM.

both of these two items must be correct to start and run the engine.

happy holidays. jerry

 

http://carfix.stufftoread.com/wts-curve.GIF

ETC (wts) curve, it goes beyone 0C and all the way to -40c in all cars.
so they run up in klondike land. see?
it can help you or kill yah.

 

fresh-air

if car is tuned up , spark is hot and timed at 5-8deg,. Before TDC.
and it still floods , look here.

with out air (5 places on 8v) (i think? 4 on 16v) the car will flood.
i pulled mine down and spec'd it out. (a spare I have)

dont throw the dizzy left and right, check the timing, if its way
off then your timing belt has slipped.
No points, no drift of timing, these day's.
You will want to know that , I can tell you.
if you need the procedure, just ask we have it.

 

The simple things

Boy, do I feel stupid! It turns out that the motor has a sticking intake valve. Not all the time, but intermittently. Good thing it has a warranty. The be ndor just wants a picture of the compression tester showing the low pressure test (what a joke) and they will ship me another motor. I still have to swap them out the motor but I don't have to ship back the old one.

I should have Listened to you from the start and done a compression test.

Thanks for your help.

 

dont feel bad, you trusted them to do their job and they failed you.
it is not possible to guess what these people might have done.
My guess was , only based on distrust in JDM' s and wrecker in general. I heard that some pressure wash engines and really mess them up. Sometimes doing nothing is best. till you get it.

I hope it all turns out great and that you can see parts !!

if for got to say, spray that valve stim with wd40 or the like and push it up and down , it can be freed
up, might be a tad rusty.