[Bob Again]

1996 x-90 5sp manual 4x4
Ok this is the one I bought with blown engine and in various states of disassemble with wiring issues.
Finally finished installing the replacement motor from a 94 sidekick. Changed over sensors, distributor and installed CPS and encoder.
Ok, here's where I at:

Cranks fine no start.

Did not take long to find the first issue. Fuel pump not running.

In the process of looking for the fuel pump relay...
(not near the ecu but passenger side ((LH drive))way up high toward the middle below the main relay and above a relay with a yellow connector which I assume is air bag. I'm still looking for the fuel pump ground point. It is definitely not behind either tail light and I cant find it elsewhere in the trunk.)
...so in the process of trying to find the pink and blue lead from the relay to the fuel pump I found a suzuki security device.
Anybody know if these can be defeated? If so how would I know if this one has been bypassed? I asked the seller specifically about a security device he came up blank. All I have is one unchiped key and no remote.
Is there a proceedure to make the security happy like for example a simalar vintage Toyota had a anti theft device wherw you turned on the ignition flashed the high/low beams or you either didnt start or lights and horn flashed. Or both I cant remember.
So all input wellcome on both the fuel pump ground point and the workings of the pictured security box.
I'm thinking that with the mess I have under the dash it might be easiest in the ljinnlong run to pull the dash covering off completely. Doesn't look that tough on this one. Anyone been through removing the dash on one of these and care to comment,?

3 hrs later Edit: just occurred to me that this box probably is just for break in security and unlocking doors ect. Likely has nothing to do with ignition or fuel delivery.

 

[Bex]

I have little info about the body structure of the X-90, but while one can normally get to the fuel pump ground via the left rear tail light, it is actually on the rear wheel well on the left hand side. I suppose the only way for you to confirm is to follow the black wire from the fuel pump itself (or wire in a new one). Note that normally, the fuel pump will only prime for 3 seconds at key on, and then turn off. Have you confirmed that the engine will run with starter fluid sprayed into the intake?? And what ECU are you now using (considering the original in the X-90 would be OBD2, and your engine is now OBD1). Presumably the OBD2 ECU will be looking for a crank sensor.
In looking through the diagram here, I’m not sure I find whatever that security box would be, coming from the factory:

Suzuki

 

[Bob Again]

Hello again Bex your reply is certainly appreciated.

I think the the security box is #27 on th diagram. Door lock controller.

The fuel pump ground point might be behind the rear bumper. As thats where the x-90 supplement manual troubleshooting section list the connection for the fuel sender.

Yes, I did put the OBD2 crankshaft sensor, distributor, wiring harness, and any sensor with a different part number on the replacement engine.

No I did not try the prime with gas or ether (starting fluid) method to check for spark as I feel this washes lubricant from the cylinder which could be an issue if I can't get it started. Likely overly cautious here.

Im pretty certain I've have the distributor close enough to give me a sputter or two if it had ignition and fuel. I also know its getting no fuel.

No spark equals fuel pump cutoff on these correct?

So when it warms up into the teens (farenheit, got rather cold here overnight). Ill go check for spark, signal from the crank sensor, and double-triple check all conections before spending more time on the fuel pump. As I've been under the impression the fuel pump would run a second or so upon ignition then cutoff upon starting attemp if ecu does not sense spark. The ecu is likely smarter than me and already knows if its going to have spark without initiation of cranking?

I'll report back if and when I find something. Or after awhile if I continue to be stymied.
Regards

 

[Bex]

The only other thing I might suggest is to look over at Acks FAQS - the wiring for the door lock circuit ‘should’ be the same as for your car, at least wiring colors, etc

https://acksfaq.com/HTML/pdfs/96-FSM-v2-8a-130.pdf

 

[Bob Again]

Well I've no spark. And a small coolant leak. I also have a dog. Coolant draining now. I'll clean everything up then start at the crankshaft position sensor....
By the way, obd2 scanner reports no problems any sense in checking the jumper connector a blink code? I can look it up but anyone know which two terminals to connect or jump?

 

[Bex]

I believe that the ECU will stop fuel delivery if it does not see spark. What ECU are you using?

 

[Bob Again]

I believe you are correct. I'm using the orginal x-90 ecu. With the distributor and oil pump and crank encoder from the x-90 engine. The engine was running when it blew and for sometome after from the looks of it. I'll post some pics of the piston, cylinder, and head when i get a change. Take a look a the photo next to my screen name. Thats machine shavings not dust. This person ran the thing on three cylinders for quite some time.

 

[Bob Again]

Ok, no voltage to the Crankshaft position sensor. Likely the first thing I should gave check. Next step to trace it back to where it should be getting power from. And hope I don't get to ecu.
Or, is it a better to start at the ecu, find the pin that should be sent voltage to the CPS and see if it is. About 4-5 volts correct?
Off to the wiring diagram I go.

 

[fordem]

Are we talking about a two wire sensor under the oil pump - no voltage goes to it - you need a scope to see if it pulses when the engine is turning.

 

[Bob Again]

Are we talking about a two wire sensor under the oil pump - no voltage goes to it - you need a scope to see if it pulses when the engine is turning.

Thanks for chiming in. That's kind of what I remember from when I had a similar issue with a different vehicle which also had a denso two wire CPS and a Mitsubishi ECU. I thought I remebered testing both the crank and cam sensors using an ohmmeter. However my internet seach in how to test a denso two wire CPS turned up that it should have voltage passing through it. I've often said while there is a lot of information on the internet there's also a lot of misinformation on the internet. will need to go back to the for mentioned vehicle's FSM and find that test procedure at this point I assume.
By the way, the other vehicle turned out to be a chipped key missing, dishonest seller, and a immobilizer issue....

 

[Bex]

I don’t get it....the 94 motor will not have a crank position sensor....how did you install the CPS into the 94 motor? What sensors did you switch over? I think you need to give better details about the swap - what parts are from the 94 engine, what’s from the 96 engine. The fact that you’ve attempted to mix the OBD1 and OBD2 engines, sensors, ECU, etc., means you need to define exactly what you’re using.
While I may be wrong, I think the basic rule of thumb when combining the two generations, is having to step down to the OBD1 set up. The distributors, ECU‘s and some sensors are completely different.

 

[fordem]

I don’t get it....the 94 motor will not have a crank position sensor....how did you install the CPS into the 94 motor?

Easy peasy - swap the oil pump, the oil pan and the crank pulley.

 

[Bob Again]

Apparently the only test of a denso CPS two wire is resistance. Which this one passes. At least enough that the rest of the ignition circuit would know its there and start the pump on ignition, correct? Wave form would be story and I guess if the ecu didn't like the pattern it would cut spark upon the engine turning?
Meanwhile, I need to fine a ignition no spark troubleshooting list for this thing (96 with CPS).

I don’t get it....the 94 motor will not have a crank position sensor....how did you install the CPS into the 94 motor? What sensors did you switch over? I think you need to give better details about the swap - what parts are from the 94 engine, what’s from the 96 engine. The fact that you’ve attempted to mix the OBD1 and OBD2 engines, sensors, ECU, etc., means you need to define exactly what you’re using.

Ok, Thanks I'll try again to answer clearly. It will be long.
To begin. I think I need to point out that the donor engine while from a 94 automatic was a California VIN thus many of the accessories (Plenum and its ERG pipe for example) were already the updated style found on later OBD2 models.

So here is what I can recall swapping over on the engine management system:
CPS: Installed onto the donor (94) engine all from the orginal (96) engine:
- Oil pump
- Oil pan
-CPS encoder wheel (behind the timing. pulley)
-injector electric harness
-CPS sensor

DISTRIBUTOR:
-Changed out the distributor. Put the
Dizzy (cap, rotor, etc.) from onto the
donor engine.

SENSORS:
- I can't recall exactly which. I know. MAP, 2 or 3 ERG or EVP sensors and
any others with a different part
number.

A couple of other points:
I am prepared for this thing to not idle correctly if and when I get it running. I didn't change the air idle valve as I would normally do in an auto to manual swap since the part numbers were either the same or compatible. And factory preset air mixture set screw might give an issue. Neither of which should cause an problem with no spark.

Also, I could be barking up the wrong tree. But this is very reminiscent of another Asian Swap I did a few years back. Tore into the under dash trying to figure out why the factory imobilizer wasn't happy. Even though I know nothing ever goes wrong with a chipped key I made the 100 mile trip to the nearest dealer to see if they would check the key. Service manger took one glance at and said "that ain't a chipped key. Just a normal key with a glob of plastic on it". ECU had to go off to the chipped key maker. $300.

Now on this 86 x-90 I've no flashing security light on the dash but a do have a small factory looking toggle switch on the lower dash left of the steering column. It has a red LED but switching it neither lights the LED or have any other effect. Searching seems to imply this is a security system related valet switch. But all info is vague at best. I guess tracing wires is a route but this thing is such a mess (broken, I mean broken not just the clips) connectors taped back together and patched into. I really feel it might be easiest to remove the dash cover if I can't find the issue through conventional troubleshooting and have to resort to tracking wires.

I feel like I really need to find a troubleshooting procedure for a 96 x-90 before moving on. Like the manufacturer advises try to find the issue before ripping further into things.
At least I'd need to find the power feed to the distributor as a need point to check. I don't want to randomly poke the connector for voltage.

 

[Bob Again]

Easy peasy - swap the oil pump, the oil pan and the crank pulley.

Did that. Thanks

 

[Bob Again]

Forgot a piece of the puzzle. It has cruise control. That should all be in ecu and it's controll system. Right? Better go look as there might be something like wiring to the brake switch has been compromised by all the poking around under there. (assuming there is brake peddle switch for the cruise control and this function is not handled by the ecu and the ABS controller. I do know the brake lights function).

 

[Bob Again]

I got far enough along (not very) to find voltage to the distributor. Stops there. Some old posts discuss some testing of the distributor. Lots to go on there but most point to the banned ones website for procedure. Which is completely gone. Simplest next step would be to check the ground behind the distributor. It won't make me feel good if i did overlook it but I'm sure hoping I did.
I've also go to try scanning again while cranking for a least 10 seconds....

 

[fordem]

I could be wrong and this is an issue where misinformation could lead to immense frustration, but as far as I know, the OBD2 16v engine should start with a defective crank position sensor - my understanding is it's used for misfire detection only - the crank angle sensor in the distributor is the critical one.

 

[Bob Again]

Humm... cam position sensor that's tied (or set) through ignition and valve timing or am I confused here as well.
Ok
Double check valve timing.
Double check ignition timing.
Report back.
Can't get to it today but soon and I'll let you know what I find. From some of the old post ive read it seems they might both have to be functional? However, I think maybe, the cam timing needs to be set and the Crank Position Sensor is just installed correctly.
I think you're on the track and thank you.
As for immense frustration. You likely shouldn't feel sorry for me but rather pity me. I'm doing this for fun (?), preoccupation, and distraction. Rather than necessity. Thanks again and best regards.

 

[Bob Again]

While my OBD2 scan tool reports no errors. I did get it into the live mode.
Cranking at 200 rpm timing is at 5 degrees before TDC. And the wave form when cranking looks fine to me. Or a least consistent.
So I think I need to check or somehow test the igniter and coil. Anyone know if tapping off the weird extra post under the distributor cap is as risky as some say. Or is a spark plug attached solidly to a proper ground then connected with spare plug wire safe?
Also anyone know what the relay pictured is? As you can the label is gone and don't want to embrass myself by offering a guess.