[goof]

I'm trying to replace the water pump on my daughter's Tracker and I'm finding out (again) how everything connects to everything...painful. However, I was mortified when it appeared I couldn't get the timing belt cover off without pulling the crankshaft pulley REALLY? Do I have to do that just to change a water pump?!$&@

Any help/advice would be much appreciated.

 

[m000035]

There are five smaller bolts inside the pulley. Remove them and the pulley will be in your hand.

There is no need to remove the big bolt in the crank. In fact it has lead to problems due to not being properly torqued afterwards. It is a good idea to check to ensure it IS tightened properly. It is also a good idea to replace the timing belt and water pump at the same time. The pump doesn't last much longer than the recommended TB change recommendations.

 

[ranger88den]

There are five smaller bolts inside the pulley. Remove them and the pulley will be in your hand.

There is no need to remove the big bolt in the crank. In fact it has lead to problems due to not being properly torqued afterwards. It is a good idea to check to ensure it IS tightened properly. It is also a good idea to replace the timing belt and water pump at the same time. The pump doesn't last much longer than the recommended TB change recommendations.

X2.
They're usually a reduced head, with an 8mm metric bolt head, 6mm x 1.00 thread pitch bolt, but I've also found metric socket head bolts as well, can't remember the size of allen type wrench, but 5 or 6mm comes to mind. Good luck in your endeavor.

 

[goof]

Thank you all!! It worked just as you said I appreciate the advice so much, I was about to become despondent! Now I hope the pump goes on and everything goes back together as planned ;-)

 

[ranger88den]

If you messed with the center bolt you may want to double check the torque (94 lb ft). Even if you didn't you may still want to check.

 

[colonelhogan44]

That's less of a risk than not checking it my opinion. I always put a torque wrench on that bolt and check it at 94 ft-lb whenever I get a new Kick.

 

[goof]

Post water pump replacement woes

Ok, so I replaced the water pump and buttoned everything back up; no leaks!! However, no the idle is inconsistent, meaning it almost dies every few seconds. It also has a lot of detonation and seems WAY under powered now.

I marked the belt and sprocket location between one another and the block. I noticed the upper sprocket MAY have moved a bit, but no more than a millimeter. I made sure to line up the marks before the belt went back on. Could that little movement have caused my symptoms? Could the belt tension be too tight/loose? What about a vacuum leak I may have caused? Could I possibly fix the issue by rotating the distributor a small bit? Or do I need to have a shop put it on some kind of computer?

I'm confused

 

[GumbyCT]

Ok, so I replaced the water pump and buttoned everything back up; no leaks!! However, no the idle is inconsistent, meaning it almost dies every few seconds. It also has a lot of detonation and seems WAY under powered now.

I marked the belt and sprocket location between one another and the block. I noticed the upper sprocket MAY have moved a bit, but no more than a millimeter. I made sure to line up the marks before the belt went back on. Could that little movement have caused my symptoms? Could the belt tension be too tight/loose? What about a vacuum leak I may have caused? Could I possibly fix the issue by rotating the distributor a small bit? Or do I need to have a shop put it on some kind of computer?

I'm confused

It sounds more like a timing issue.

Did you put the same timing belt back on?

Don't be so quick to turn the distributor or you will cause more problems.

 

[goof]

I put the same belt back on (it was in great shape and less than 50k on it). I put it over the same ribs on the sprocket and made sure the marks all line up again. It sounds Ike timing to me to (which is why I was thinking of rotating the distributor) but I don't know why or how I could've caused the problem.

 

[ranger88den]

X3 Verify valve timing and adjustment then you can put a timing light on it. Don't forget to freeze timing by jumping the data plug.

 

[colonelhogan44]

I'm going to encourage you to put a new belt on that thing when you are back in there the second time. It's like 17 bucks and then you won't have to touch it again for a long while

 

[Max]

Same here.

AND you can throw a timing light on it before doing anything to verify the spark end of the equation, just to see if you affected THAT world at all, no?

 

[GumbyCT]

x3 As mentioned the labor far exceeds the cost of the belt. In fact, I would replace every belt I had to remove to get to the water pump just to save in future maintenance problems.

I would revisit that that timing belt setup, rather than messing with the distributor, start from scratch.

 

[goof]

Ok, so what I'm hearing is my problem is probably cam timing and not spark timing, right? I suppose I'll review the Haynes manual for cam timing issues. I thought I understood the basic concept; I marked the belt and gears and block and I didn't move it. I put the belt back on the same lobes and didn't move the gears; I suppose I must've moved something accidentally. Oh we'll, here we go again! Thanks for all the advice

 

[ranger88den]

Ok, so what I'm hearing is my problem is probably cam timing and not spark timing, right? I suppose I'll review the Haynes manual for cam timing issues. I thought I understood the basic concept; I marked the belt and gears and block and I didn't move it. I put the belt back on the same lobes and didn't move the gears; I suppose I must've moved something accidentally. Oh we'll, here we go again! Thanks for all the advice

Haynes manual no good! Okay, I'll send you some scans of FSM timing belt (valve) procedure, IF, you PM me your email address AND, put your vehicle information in your signature. It'll probably be tomorrow as it looks like a rain day.

 

[The Goat]

I'm not the expert here by any means...but I would tell anybody to be carefull checking the torque on that center bolt. That bolt (CAN'T) take any (OVER) torqueing or it will snap off in the crank...then you got yourself a real problem!

Got bored today in the junk yard and read this last night... 225+ ft/lbs of force and the bolt and threads still didnt give out. Thats 170+ lbs of force on a 22 inch breaker bar.

Not entirely surprised considering my last one took some serious torque to remove.

I certainly dont advocate that level of torque/stupidity...just saying a few ft lbs to make sure it is tight wont hurt anything.

Also learned I can almost flip a metro with no help :lol:


Edit...big ed, whats wrong the gatorback? I just bought three on closing time for super cheap.

 

[GumbyCT]

And the ones that have been loctited in place (unknown to the new owner) are the ones that WILL snap when you are trying to "Remove it". Read that as NOT when overtightening the bolt.

So when it does break will you be happier?

It only takes a second and it will turn the motor into a paperweight - alright a boat anchor. I have seen it happen on two boat anchors already.

 

[GumbyCT]

Just a question...if these little engines are becoming so rare would it not be worth the time and money to have a good machine shop rework the snout on one of these crankshafts? Has anyone ever had that done and is it just to expensive?

When I looked into that it was more than the value of the truck. So it boils down to just how much you want to spend or IF you can do the work yourself.

A lot depends (I think) on the condition of the rest of the truck. But then even if money was no object, I tend to think you would be better off putting in a motor you can still get parts for; which is more work (labor$) too.

 

[The Goat]

Big ed, idk about the manifold but a cheap solution is a set of headers from roadlessgear.

I have a spare 16v mani with no visible cracks. Was replaced sometimes around 140k...so has 60k on it. Just dont want to part with it and then it turns out it has a crack?

Any way to test? Ill sell it if someone needs it. Was saving it for the wofe's 4 door when hers breaks.

 

[Rhinoman]

Just a question...if these little engines are becoming so rare would it not be worth the time and money to have a good machine shop rework the snout on one of these crankshafts? Has anyone ever had that done and is it just to expensive?

It has been done by up and then machining the slot, another option is to machine a new keyway 180 degrees from the old one - that can cause confusion when it comes to setting the valve timing.