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Discussion Starter #1
I've been debating to myself whether to swap to a 1.6L engine or just upgrade my current 1.3L engine. Cost is not an issue, since both will cost me nearly the same. My hesitation is due to the nature of our terrain here. We have mostly sand dunes, and unlike in rocky terrain, if you want to climb a steep sand dune you need to be able to rev very high, right below the redline, and hold it there as long as possible. So I need the high-RPM, and I recall Billjohn saying that the 1.6L engine does not rev as high as the 1.3L engine.

I have taken my Zuk last weekend to the sand dunes near the beach here and I was amazed at the performance I got from the Vitara R/Ps. The car was able to climb the steep hill all the way to the top and all spectators were really impressed; they seriously thought I had swapped the engine with some V6. And I still haven't got the headers and cat back on. I need to drive the engine to 6000 RPM to do that, though, and I'm not sure I will be able to do it with the 1.6L engine.

Any comments? Suggestions?
 

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the reason you need it pegged, is because that is where the peak hp is. The 1.6 will hit that same HP at a much lower RPM and climb to an even higher HP as you tach it up. If you have the time and money for the swap then I would do it.

The 1.3 can be made to go just about anywhere, but it will have to be abused a lot more than the 1.6 to get there.
 

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In think Baratacus is right on.

In addition, the 1.6 will be superior in every other type of driving condition and will likely last longer than your 1.3.

For the same money, I don't think it's even close.

Bruce
 

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Your fuel economy is going to be where the torque peaks at and how far over that you run your RPM's. The horsepower (69 BHP @6000 rpm) peaks higher than torque (76 ft-lb @3500 RPM) , so running your engine up to 6K RPM's to maximise your HP, you will be burning your fuel ineficiently. If you typically run your engine right around the torque peak then you will have an equally efficient engine compared to the 1.6 running at or below it's torque peak. I generally have to run my 1.3 at high RPM's to keep my power up though. Thus, I end up burning a lot more fuel that I would if I were running a more powerfull motor that didn't require me to rev it that far past it's torque peak.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
the reason you need it pegged, is because that is where the peak hp is. The 1.6 will hit that same HP at a much lower RPM and climb to an even higher HP as you tach it up. If you have the time and money for the swap then I would do it.

The 1.3 can be made to go just about anywhere, but it will have to be abused a lot more than the 1.6 to get there.
Thanks Baratacus, I get your point. I'm not sure, cuz I haven't tried it, but from my experience in driving in sand, the revving will decipate gradually until you lose the optimal revs at which you get the maximum torque you need and halt. So I would need it to stay up there as long as possible, and I'm not sure the 1.6 will be able to hold it longer than the 1.3.

In think Baratacus is right on.

In addition, the 1.6 will be superior in every other type of driving condition and will likely last longer than your 1.3.

For the same money, I don't think it's even close.

Bruce
Thanks Bruce.

I'm looking to see the input of Billjohn, since he has done the 1.3 upgrade and is getting a significant gain in power.
 

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The 1.6 will reach the 1.3's max HP at around 4K rpm. it will climb to 50% over the 1.3's rpm by the time it gets to 6K rpm. In many conditions where your 1.3 will start to bog down and drop it's power, the 1.6 will be going strong and not be dropping the revs down. For you to have the 1.6 at an angle or under enough load to bog it down your 1.3L would have already failed. A 1.3 can be built to have the HP that a stock 1.6 has, but it's hard on the engine. With an aggresive cut cam, headders, quad carbs, forged rods and crank, new bearings, an MSD ignition, you're looking at the same cost of a 1.6 swap.
 

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Hot rodding the 1.3 can get you higher output, higher revs, and it will definately get you up that dune. But at a price.
As said in other threads, hopping it up will shorten the lifespan of the motor.

Think of it as a mouse on drugs. He can make that wheel he runs on definately go fast for a longer burst of speed, but it will eventually kill the mouse.

I found that the Stalker is great for racing, but it is not something you use as a daily driver or you will kill it. ( I did twice).
(hot rodding = decked head and block, flat top pistons, radical cam, all new guts and bearings, HD CV carb, header, stock ignition = double the stock HP...)

The 1.6, on the other hand, is a stronger motor than the stock 1.3 and will last you longer.

Does that make sense?
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
The 1.6 will reach the 1.3's max HP at around 4K rpm. it will climb to 50% over the 1.3's rpm by the time it gets to 6K rpm. In many conditions where your 1.3 will start to bog down and drop it's power, the 1.6 will be going strong and not be dropping the revs down. For you to have the 1.6 at an angle or under enough load to bog it down your 1.3L would have already failed. A 1.3 can be built to have the HP that a stock 1.6 has, but it's hard on the engine. With an aggresive cut cam, headders, quad carbs, forged rods and crank, new bearings, an MSD ignition, you're looking at the same cost of a 1.6 swap.
Hot rodding the 1.3 can get you higher output, higher revs, and it will definately get you up that dune. But at a price.
As said in other threads, hopping it up will shorten the lifespan of the motor.

Think of it as a mouse on drugs. He can make that wheel he runs on definately go fast for a longer burst of speed, but it will eventually kill the mouse.

I found that the Stalker is great for racing, but it is not something you use as a daily driver or you will kill it. ( I did twice).
(hot rodding = decked head and block, flat top pistons, radical cam, all new guts and bearings, HD CV carb, header, stock ignition = double the stock HP...)

The 1.6, on the other hand, is a stronger motor than the stock 1.3 and will last you longer.

Does that make sense?

Thanks guys, makes perfect sense. Thanks a lot for the advice.

Question: Where is the red line in the 1.6L engine? And will the RPM gauge after the swap give a correct reading?
 

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Redline is at 6550 rpm.
The 1.6 makes a big difference in power but you won't want to run the 1.3 carb on it, its too small to make max. power on the 1.3 engine, running a freeflow exhaust and a Weber works well.
You should consider running the 16V 1.6 engine instead, the wiring is more complex but it makes the same bottom end power and pulls much harder at higher RPM.
The 1.6 engine isn't much heavier but the bottom end is much stronger with bigger bearings and beefier rods.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Redline is at 6550 rpm.
The 1.6 makes a big difference in power but you won't want to run the 1.3 carb on it, its too small to make max. power on the 1.3 engine, running a freeflow exhaust and a Weber works well.
You should consider running the 16V 1.6 engine instead, the wiring is more complex but it makes the same bottom end power and pulls much harder at higher RPM.
The 1.6 engine isn't much heavier but the bottom end is much stronger with bigger bearings and beefier rods.
Thanks Rhinoman for the info. 1.6 Red line is at 6550? That's almost the same as the 1.3L! That's good news to me.

Where can I get a Weber carb? I'm not so happy with my carb, I would love to replace it.

16V engine requires too much work, and I'm not sure I'll find technicians who have the ability to do it. Plus it requires an ECU, and probably programming as well for the electronic fuel injection; am I wrong? 16V engine is actually cheaper here, but they don't sell the ECU along with it, and I'm not sure where to get one. Most Vitaras in our scrap yards are 8V, I haven't seen any 16V Vitara around here. Plus: I already ordered an 8V Thorley header, and it will not fit a 16V engine.
 

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6550 is the rev limiter on the ECU, how much power there is up there is something else.
When I did my conversion I only had a bare 1.6 engine so I used all 1.3 parts, alternator, mounts etc.. I had to elongate holes and tweak bits and pieces to get it all to fit but it went in there OK. If you don't use aftermarket engine mounts then you need to cut one of the engine mounts of the chassis and move it about 1" (I forget which one).
 

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That's interesting. When I was putting in my second 1.6 8v (about 10 years ago) I picked up the gauge cluster from the same 95 Tracker that the motor came out of. The redline on the tach was at 5700 rpm.
I have since traded off the gaugecluster to someone that needed it, but I am sure of the setting.

Then again, when i built up the Stalker motor (1.3), I was easily taching out at about 6500-6800 going through the mountain passes without hitting any rev limiter, so maybe the gauges are set well below the limit of the ECU (for safety sake)?
 

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I just went out and checked my revcounter, red line is at 6500, thats on a first gen. year 2000 8V G16A engine (we got the first gen. until 2003).
I don't know what the rev limit on a 1.3 is, the EFI models aren't common over here and I haven't had a 1.3 ECU to hack. There is no tacho on my 1986 SJ413K anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Man this conversation is really getting interesting ... tech talk between two experts from different continents!
 

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Man this conversation is really getting interesting ... tech talk between two experts from different continents!
This is one of the reasons I like this type of forum. It is the only way we can really get together in 'near' real time to discuss our hobby/sport. Kind of a graphical party line...

And you are on the other side of the world...:lol:

;)
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
This is one of the reasons I like this type of forum. It is the only way we can really get together in 'near' real time to discuss our hobby/sport. Kind of a graphical party line...

And you are on the other side of the world...:lol:

;)
Yeah, I have yet to become an expert though. I still have time, and I'm hoping I will be.
 

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I wouldn't dscribe myself as an expert either but I've been around Zuks and the Zuk fora for 10yrs.
I don't know were you would get a Weber carb, you may be able to source one from an old Ford and rebuild/rejet it. There is a users manual on the web somewhere with jet sizes and stuff, the most common fitment is a 32/36
 
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