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Discussion Starter #1
88.5 'Zuki.

Turn signal fuse (10 amp) blows immediately when ignition switch is turned on.

I know all signal bulbs and wiring to them are good because they all work when Flashers are turned on.

I suspect possibly a bad ground or short in the back-up circuit, but don't know how to proceed to isolate and diagnose.

Any help on step-by-step troubleshooting greatly appreciated.

I have a multi-meter, but don't really know how to drive it very well.

Thanks
 

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take a look at Dice's samurai wiring diagrams at Ack's FAQ (Ack's FAQ). Do a search for diagram.

I hope that this helps!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks, and I have that already. It would be awesome, if I only understood how to read it and actually learn anything. I really appreciate your help, but i was looking for something more along the lines of: "Your symptoms are this, so try to do this and see what happens..." Sorry, but I'm am electrical idiot.
 

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If fuses constantly blow then check each turn signal fixture outside for damage, remove bulbs and make sure the sockets are clean and perfectly intact. I'm a big believer in dialectric grease to. If the sockets and bulbs are good then trace back the wires as far as you can to make sure none of them are frayed, melted together or severed. Any wire frayed and touching metal could immediately blow a fuse.

Check under the dash for any obviously frayed wires, make sure the turn signal relay is snug, also maybe replace it with another known good just to make sure it's not an issue.

Does the fuse blow immediately or only if you use the turn signals? If it blows immediately than it might be something else on the turn signal circuit causing the blown fuse. I'm not sure which other circuits are on that fuse right off the top of my head but the manual should show it. Let us know how this goes.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks. Blows immediately whenever I turn on the ignition. The back-up lights are on same circuit. All bulbs light and flash properly when I turn on the flasher switch.
 

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You need to get someone who is comfortable with electrical to help you...

The electrical wiring between the fuse and the relevant switch gear will need to be visually inspected for damage - wiring leading to the reverse light switch and the hazard light/turn signal switch gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You need to get someone who is comfortable with electrical to help you...
Ah, no offense, but that's what I thought I was trying to do.

I really appreciate you guys taking time to try and help, and I'm not really as cluelass as it might sound, but I was hoping someone who had been through this issue could point me in the right direction to save some time.

Possibly some known issues with bad switches or relays, or common ground faults. Or maybe some insight on what exactly I can rule out by the fact that all the lights work with the flasher switch. Does the fact that it pops immediately with the ignition switch give any clues? Would a short ior bad ground in the reverse light system cause these symptoms?

Thanks
 

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There are certain tasks that cannot be done "via the internet" - if I were there, or you were here, I could help you find the problem quite rapidly - and since you say you're an "electrical idiot", which I interpret as you're not that familiar with the troubleshooting of electrical issues, you need to get someone who is, to provide "hands on assistance".

I'm not putting you down here, I know of many competent mechanics whose brains just "blank out" when it comes to electricals - it's as if they can't see the electricity move, so they don't understand it.

The job involves locating the appropriate section of the loom - which is most likely under the dash and visually inspecting it, making sure it isn't physically cut or pinched, that the insulation isn't frayed or chafed where it passes through the firewall on it's way to the reverse light switch on the transmission, making sure the external section (to the reverse light switch) is also not cut or pinched.

Assuming there is no visible damage the next step is to going to be to disconnect the harness and check it for short circuits to ground using a meter, and if you find one, opening up the harness, stripping off the insulating tape and checking it wire by wire. If there is no short in the disconnected harness, then it's going to be in one of the switches, or even in the back of the fuse panel.

Look at my post - I have isolated the circuits & sections of the circuit you need to focus on - between the fuse and the relevant switch gear - between the fuse and the reverse light switch, between the fuse and the hazard & turn signal switches - I can do that because you say the fuse blows immediately you switch the ignition on.

Yes - a short circuit to ground in the reverse light wiring will cause this - but only if it's between the fuse and the switch.

Getting help could mean the difference between spending 30 minutes or 30 hours, and a crap load of frustration.

As for known issues - the reverse light switch itself - IF IT WAS RECENTLY REPLACED - if it's the same switch that's been there all the time, it's probably not the cause, but a number of the commonly available non-genuine replacements have been known to cause problems.

To give you an idea of how "hands on" this process needs to be, I had a short in the wiring on my vehicle (it was there when I bought the vehicle) - I disconnected switches, tested with a meter - I knew there was a short, in a length of wire no more than three feet long, but not where, and after checking all the common places I decided not to spend any more time searching - just run a new wire and be done with it - and whilst snaking the new wire in, alongside the old wire, I found where the old wire was pinched, not at any of the usual places, but where it went past the rubber transmission boot - at some point the boot had been removed & replaced and the metal ring that held it down, trapped the wire, and cut through the insulation.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thank you again, and I really appreciate the giudance.

I'm still trying to get my head around what it means that the lights all work properly when activated via the flasher switch. This flasher switch is on a separate circuit than the turn signal switch. So does this mean that I can eliminate everything related to these signals back from the switch, and just focus on fuse to switch issues or back-up system issues? Is that what you just said ? :)

Oh, and a clarification. From looking at the wiring diagram, I realized I might have misled when saying that the fuse popped when I turned on the ignition (IG). It actually pops on the first key position -ACC. Don't know if this changes any diagnosis...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'm trying to read through your post and dissect the details.
I have a couple questions:

1) You said that the fact that fuse blows immediately when ignition switched on tells you that the short is between fuse and signal, flasher, or reverse switch.
I'm not following why ?

2) You said "a short circuit to ground in the reverse light wiring will cause this - but only if it's between the fuse and the switch."
How do you eliminate a short from switch to reverse light?



To add a little more information to the puzzle:

In what I thought was probably an unrelated issue, the Emergency Brake Light stays constantly lit, but the dash panel illumination lights do not work at all. These problems were non-critical, so I've been ignoring them.

You seem to think there is a good chance the issues on the signal circuit might relate to loose/frayed wires going to the switch, so it sounds prudent to disassemble the dash cluster and give it a good inspection. Sounds like I might be able to solve both issues...

Any time you get tired of my questions just ignore and I'll stop.

You have given me enough info to get a good start on fixing things. Thanks again.
 

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I'm trying to read through your post and dissect the details.
I have a couple questions:

1) You said that the fact that fuse blows immediately when ignition switched on tells you that the short is between fuse and signal, flasher, or reverse switch.
I'm not following why ?
If the short were after the switch the fuse would not blow until the switch was closed. If the short is after the reverse light switch (ie between the switch & the lights) it would not blow unless you switch the ignition on AND put the vehicle in reverse.

The same principle applies to the turn signals.

2) You said "a short circuit to ground in the reverse light wiring will cause this - but only if it's between the fuse and the switch."
How do you eliminate a short from switch to reverse light?
See the explanation above...

To add a little more information to the puzzle:

In what I thought was probably an unrelated issue, the Emergency Brake Light stays constantly lit, but the dash panel illumination lights do not work at all. These problems were non-critical, so I've been ignoring them.

You seem to think there is a good chance the issues on the signal circuit might relate to loose/frayed wires going to the switch, so it sounds prudent to disassemble the dash cluster and give it a good inspection. Sounds like I might be able to solve both issues...

Any time you get tired of my questions just ignore and I'll stop.

You have given me enough info to get a good start on fixing things. Thanks again.
These two new issues are probably unrelated to the fuse blowing as they are completely different circuits. The dash lights are usually the same fuse as the side lights - I say usually because I am not near my manuals to check, and that is how Suzuki wires them - assuming the side/park lights are working, then the dash light problem is likely to be a defective bulbs, a defective dimmer (if fitted) or a bad ground under the dash.

The brake light, again is a different circuit, start by checking to make sure the fluid reservoir is filled - the light is also used as a low fluid warning.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Follow-up - Problem Solved

Well, I got around to inspecting the wiring.

Thanks to the great help and the wiring diagram, I knew where to concentrate my inspection efforts. I pulled the dash covers and everything looked OK, but very dirty. Cleaned it up good, but didn't find any electrical problems.

Traced the harness through the firewall and was looking from there down to the switches in the transmission. It turned out that there was no wiring going down to those switches... The wires coming off the two switches were connected to each other. The connectors matched, so someone had just plugged them together making a loop between the two switches. And, on the harness, there were two connectors just behind the distributor which had been done the same way :)

So, it had the two power wires plugged together, which was causing the short.

Disconnected the connectors and plugged them up to the switches, and everything worked properly.


Thanks again
 

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Funny when one gets a vehicle thats old enough to buy booze one can find things done by the DSPO that defy explanation. Glad its working now.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Follow-up to follow-up:

Filling the brake fluid reservoir solved the "Brake" light always on. Was slightly low, and apparently that warning system is working properly.

Dash Light dimmer switch was defective and causing the issue with instrument lights not working. I disconnected and jumped the connector for constant on, and now all lights work. I have ordered some new LED bulbs to improve things further. Also ordered a replacement dimmer switch, but seems unnecessary.

Thanks again for all the help.
 
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