[LilZuk]

Hello, heres a little bit of background. I recently bought a 1993 Suzuki Escudo Nomade LWB, and unbeknownst to me it had some transmission issues. what is does it once ive been driving for a bit and the trannys hot, and am driving in the 30-80kph kind of speed the auto transmission will randomly shift into a different gear every 2 seconds for about 10 minutes before it settles down and drives like normal. I have already changed the transmission oil and filter and the problem is still happening so my mechanic recommended that i just get a new transmission, it'll be cheaper than taking it to a transmission specialist to get it sorted out.

Now heres my question, I am thinking that i could use this opportunity to upgrade, rather than just fix the problem and i am thinking of putting in an engine and transmission from a later model vitara, probably a 2nd gen vitara (1999-2005) into my 1993 escudo.

From the research ive done it looks like the transfer cases from my escudo and a 2nd gen vitara are the same, meaning that i should be able to bolt the 2gen engine and trans straight into my transfer case with no problem. but I dont want to buy a whole engine and transmission just to find it doesnt work.

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on this? \

Thanks

 

[fordem]

There is insufficient information in your post for us to provide any meaningful advice.

Problem #1 - Escudos are essentially an "unknown quantity", they are not the same as export models - so when you say a 1993 Suzuki Escudo Nomade LWB, all I can conclude from that is it's a five door Japanese market vehicle, you need to specify the engine AND transmission.

Problem #2 - second Gens are Grand Vitaras, with a choice of three engines, and multiple transmissions & transfer cases, you have to specify which one you're considering.

Problem #3 - this is actually an extension of #1 & #2 - because the Escudo is an unknown quantity, there is no guarantee that the engine you pull from a Grand Vitara will actually work, not even if it's the "same engine". I need to make this VERY clear - you can take a G16 engine out of a Grand Vitara, drop into your Escudo, it fits, the hoses, exhaust, etc., just might drop into place, and then you find the wiring & electronics are different.

In fact, I can almost put my head on a block that the wiring & electronics won't match - it's a 99% probability the ignition systems are different.

What this means is that to be guaranteed a successful swap, you HAVE to start with a complete working second gen to source the parts you need - engine, transmission, wiring harness & ECU and be aware that if you switch to a different engine & transmission, it's almost guaranteed that the axle gears will be different, so you'll need the axles and possibly the drive shafts also.

If you're lucky enough to find a cheap wreck with power train intact, you have a good chance of making it work, other than that, I suggest you figure out which transmission your Escudo Nomade has and try to get that sorted or replaced.

A 93 LWB Vitara would/should have had a 16v G16 engine with a four speed automatic and separate ECU & TCU modules, I can't tell you what a 93 LWB Escudo Nomade would have had.

If the Nomade has the three speed transmission (no OD disable button on the shift lever), it's probably an internal issue, if it has the four speed, that is electronically shifted, and the problem could be either internal or the controller/wiring. You can try disconnecting the controller and shifting it manually (like a manual transmission with no clutch), if the problem remains it's internal.

There are ways to diagnose transmission control faults - in Drive the controller shifts between the forward gears through the use of solenoids (in the transmission valve body), defective solenoids or wiring will set a code, defective sensors (shaft speed sensors) will set a code, the controller also looks at data from the engine controller (throttle position and I believe coolant temperature), any or all of the above can cause shifting issues

In a nutshell, the odds of a successful engine & transmission swap are stacked against you, getting the transmission sorted may or may not be less challenging.

 

[LilZuk]

Sorry, i had assumed people would know suzuki escudo is basically a vitara with a different badge, cos here in New Zealand we have both, and generally the parts are interchangeable, also the engine is the g16a with the 4speed auto.

And I'm not afraid of having a more difficult swap because I can do all of the work myself.

I just want to to know if anyone has done the same swap,

Or if anyone knows if (any) grand vitara transmission will fit onto a older escudo/vitara transfer case. (That way I don't have to worry about driveshafts/diffs etc..)

Once I know what will work or not work there are plenty of wrecked cars on the internet to choose from.

 

[2013GV]

Sorry, i had assumed people would know suzuki escudo is basically a vitara with a different badge, cos here in New Zealand we have both, and generally the parts are interchangeable, also the engine is the g16a with the 4speed auto.

And I'm not afraid of having a more difficult swap because I can do all of the work myself.

I just want to to know if anyone has done the same swap,

Or if anyone knows if (any) grand vitara transmission will fit onto a older escudo/vitara transfer case. (That way I don't have to worry about driveshafts/diffs etc..)

Once I know what will work or not work there are plenty of wrecked cars on the internet to choose from.

More Difficult swap? Any different auto will mean different tcm, different bcm and different wiring loom. Even getting those modules to talk to the ecm and abs unit ( yes transmission talks to the abs unit as well) will be difficult as the ecm, tcm and bcm are factory matched as to sensor inputs and appropriate outputs

Engine and auto swap, thats modules and wiring looms and a lot of work. Nithings going to be plug and play.

And no, the escudo is not just a re badged vitara, its a jdm import and a lot of things are different between the nz new and the jdm import as I have discovered. Control systems are subtly different. A lot of the mechanical bits interchange, but dr,ve deeper they are certainly different. You can't get an import ecm to work on the nz new model without a fair bit of electronic fudgery. Even the injection control is different,

As to whether a GV trans will fit physically, possibly but electronically, nope. Different beasts Totally.
You need to read the trans model number off your unit and search for the same model.

As Fordem has said, unplug the transmission and drive it manually and see what it does. If its fine, its wiring or solenoids, if its still playing up, its valve body or internal seals.

 

[LilZuk]

hi, i dont really know what you mean by unplug and drive manually, but I have driven it in just L and 2 and it drives fine so the issue is likely in the electronics. Are the solinoids easy to access or will i have to pull the transmission apart to find them? thanks

also could you please explain what you mean by drive manually? because if i can do that that would be a nice solution so i can drive it until its fixed

 

[2013GV]

hi, i dont really know what you mean by unplug and drive manually, but I have driven it in just L and 2 and it drives fine so the issue is likely in the electronics. Are the solinoids easy to access or will i have to pull the transmission apart to find them? thanks

also could you please explain what you mean by drive manually? because if i can do that that would be a nice solution so i can drive it until its fixed

Unplug the cables into the transmission
You need to confirm its working in all gears manually, not just L and 2 which proves nothing if the tcm is still plugged in.

 

[fordem]

Sorry, i had assumed people would know suzuki escudo is basically a vitara with a different badge, cos here in New Zealand we have both, and generally the parts are interchangeable, also the engine is the g16a with the 4speed auto.

I'm aware that a Suzuki Escudo is basically a "Vitara with a different badge", but, where our opinions differ is on the parts being generally interchangeable, sometimes they aren't, and typically the only way an Escudo owner finds that out is directly after he (or she) assumes they are and then finds out the hard way.

Let me ask you a question, does a first gen Escudo use the same front differential as a first gen Vitara? Let me answer it, not always, I've seen first gen Escudos with the pneumatic front freewheel mechanism that the rest of the world had to wait for second gens to get. Another one, does a 91 Escudo use the same front disc calipers as a 91 Vitara? The answer is no, they don't, at least, not the one I almost bought...

Or if anyone knows if (any) grand vitara transmission will fit onto a older escudo/vitara transfer case.

ALL of the second gen Grand Vitara transmissions, with the exception of the V6 manual transmission, should bolt onto a 91~98 Vitara transfer case.

Please note the word Escudo does NOT appear in that statement and I have excluded the 89 & 90 as those have a different case.

(That way I don't have to worry about driveshafts/diffs etc..)

I wouldn't agree with that - have you considered that the length of an engine can be different or the length of a transmission can be different? Move the transfer case and the drive shaft length changes, as for the diffs, that's a matter of what rpm your choice of engine produces it's power/torque at, what's called the power band, change the engine and the power band changes, change the power band, and you might need to change the diff gears.

The take away from this is this, as an Escudo owner, you HAVE to be willing to discover things for yourself, I'm not suggesting you don't ask questions, I'm saying don't expect the answer to be right, don't expect what I know about a Vitara to be the same as your Escudo. Consider what you read to be a starting point, and expect unpleasant surprises.

Are the solinoids easy to access or will i have to pull the transmission apart to find them?

I want to take you back to my first reply - read that first line, it tells you that the shift solenoids are in the transmission valve body.

There are ways to diagnose transmission control faults - in Drive the controller shifts between the forward gears through the use of solenoids (in the transmission valve body), defective solenoids or wiring will set a code, defective sensors (shaft speed sensors) will set a code, the controller also looks at data from the engine controller (throttle position and I believe coolant temperature), any or all of the above can cause shifting issues

What bothers me is you've jumped directly the to shift solenoids and skipped over the "diagnosis", were you planning to change the solenoids to see if that fixes the problem?

Manuals are available for Vitaras that may or may not be helpful in diagnosing an Escudo, they can be found at the link below...

Rhinoman's Suzuki Service Manuals

 

[LilZuk]

Hi, thanks this at least gives me a general idea what im getting into,
as for the manual shifting, as I understand it, ill have to unplug the tcu then just shift between gears with the normal gear select, is this right?
Ive read an earlier thread where you said this earlier,
auto trans diagnostics, further details -...

So if I unplug the tcu I will still have P N R 1st 3rd and 4th? is this correct?

 

[2013GV]

Hi, thanks this at least gives me a general idea what im getting into,
as for the manual shifting, as I understand it, ill have to unplug the tcu then just shift between gears with the normal gear select, is this right?
Ive read an earlier thread where you said this earlier,
auto trans diagnostics, further details -...

So if I unplug the tcu I will still have P N R 1st 3rd and 4th? is this correct?

Depends on model, 4th (OD) will probably not work. You heed to prove that each gear will work when selected manually and warm. So yes, its manual shift the automatic tine.

 

[LilZuk]

Depends on model, 4th (OD) will probably not work. You heed to prove that each gear will work when selected manually and warm. So yes, its manual shift the automatic tine.

alright thanks ill give it a go