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Discussion Starter #1
I will be using my 2013 F150 V6 to flat tow my Samurai. I have done my homework and know about the settings for the transfer case and tranny(neutral,2nd gear). I have decided NOT to remove the driveshaft since I will be driving 65 Max all the way back. I am also taking a tire repair kit,tools and other small items just in case. Do you have any other ideas or suggestions that might help me with my trip?
 

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I would reconsider removal of the driveshaft, its only a few minutes of work, IF it were to slip into gear over a bump or something (not unheard of with Samurai) the damage would be catastrophic. Thats a ways to go, It's VERY cheap insurance.

Are you flat towing it?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes flat towing. I would like to make sure I can tow it behind my RV so I want to tow it on the way back as a test. I will look into it when I arrive there and will make the decision after I make my pre-tow inspection.
 

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I have seen them as toad vehicles quite a bit. I know samurai and sidekicks are common for this.

You can probably get away with not dropping it, but if it were me I wouldn't even think about it. I have more than a couple bucks into the transfer case, would hate to scramble it. I have read in to many places how a bump or jolt can snap it into gear and shred things. I installed the Twisted T shift shafts which are supposed to not allow that to happen but I still am to chicken to try it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I see your point and Thank you for the input. I'm going to go balls out and do it as recommended by Suzuki. If things change I will drop the shaft. Will keep you guys posted and post pics.

I will try to keep it around 60-65mph.
 

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Is that an ecoboost?

I love road trips, it should be fun!
 

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and don't forget to stop for a toilet break and a smoke every 200 miles, and run the sammi for 4-5 mins in gear to circulate the oil in the transfer case (2nd main box, N in transfer)
 

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I have towed my sami 4 down for years behind my class C and no major problems. Dropping the drive shaft can cause headaches when you see a spot you would like to unhook and ride in the desert southwest. As for towing in second well your call but I know a lot of who use third or even fourth with no problems. Good luck and enjoy the desert of AZ and NM.
 

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It doesn't matter what gear the main box is in when towing because the transfer case is in N.
The critical bit is when you stop to give it a lube run. Second is usually selected in the main box because that one drives all the shafts and gears in the the main box and turns the transfer case over at a slow enough rate to sling oil everywhere without throwing it off the gears and leaving it all dry when you start towing again.

If you want to leave it in 3 or 4 when towing, then do so its going to make no difference, but use second when running it during the stops to lube the gearboxes.
 

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I agree, I had the dreaded drop in gear (trans in 4th) on one of my freeway flyer 88 tin but got lucky the engine was a all out 1.3 with a basic blueprint build and my rv never was above 60 mph all survived with no major damage. Now all my samis have split shifters with simple in cab lockouts for towing.
 

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It doesn't matter what gear the main box is in when towing because the transfer case is in N.
The critical bit is when you stop to give it a lube run. Second is usually selected in the main box because that one drives all the shafts and gears in the the main box and turns the transfer case over at a slow enough rate to sling oil everywhere without throwing it off the gears and leaving it all dry when you start towing again.

If you want to leave it in 3 or 4 when towing, then do so its going to make no difference, but use second when running it during the stops to lube the gearboxes.
I'm not sure where your information comes from for your conclusions, but the transmission bearings and gears get lubed when the engine is running and clutch is engaged, even if neutral. The input shaft/gear turns the countershaft, which in turn rotates every gear on the mainshaft, slinging oil around the transmission case, lubing bearings and gears.
I would suspect Suzuki's recommendation to tow with the transmission in gear, is to stop any parasitic drag that would be turning the TC gears, and thus the transmission, from causing transmission damage.
Samurai transmissions get burned up, when people decide to tow with the TC engaged and the transmission in neutral. Gears and bearings on the transmission mainshaft will receive no lube, as the countershaft is not turning, since the engine is not revolving, powering the input shaft/gear.
I once towed my Samurai 1800 miles, without stopping to run it every 200. Speeds varied from dirt roads and 30 mph, to interstates at 75mph.
Unless your TC is low on oil, there is no need to stop and lube anything. The transfer case will be lubed from oil picked up by the shift collars (Suzuki calls them clutches) on the output shaft. There is no need to lube any GEARS, as none are turning while the TC is in neutral. The only parts needing lube, are the bearings on the TC output shaft.
Since the Samurai TC neutral position is not a true neutral, as it engages the front drive, I did disconnect the FRONT driveline, as the TC to front differential u-joint angles are not aligned closely enough, to allow for correct phasing and there is more vibration that would be ideal. Taking off the front driveline leaves me with a vehicle that is far more drivable, than one with only the front axle being powered (rear driveline removed), for short trips that don't need 4x4 capabilities. It also eliminates the front driveline vibrations that occur while being towed with the rear driveline still attached. I suppose the TC could change gears while going down the highway, but I would suspect it most likely happened when being bumped, while stopped, when somebody decide to get into the ice chest they stored in the Samurai. Try and shift a non-synchronized transmission, without using a clutch and rev matching and you'll find it all but impossible (not including high dollar racing transmissions, such as used by NASCAR teams). TC has no syncros, just like old style truck transmissions.
You're all welcome to tow your Sammy any way you like, just do a little research, before you say there is only one way to do it.
Better yet, rebuild a couple of transmissions and transfer cases, to see how they actually work.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I decided to drop the drive shaft. Do I still put the TC in neutral and tranny in 2nd? Or do I do neutral on both?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hey Guys all went well with the tow. Made it home safely, Sammy ran like a top. Now to get it painted.
 

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I'm not sure where your information comes from for your conclusions, but the transmission bearings and gears get lubed when the engine is running and clutch is engaged, even if neutral. The input shaft/gear turns the countershaft, which in turn rotates every gear on the mainshaft, slinging oil around the transmission case, lubing bearings and gears.
if thats the case and every gear on the mainshaft is rotating in neutral, how does neutral work? Gearboxes by design rely on being able to turn the mainshaft gears at different speeds to give you your different ratios. The "usually" only fixed gearing is input shaft to counershaft.
Not all boxes work the same remember. I can show you one in my shop at present that only spins the input shaft, countershaft and 1 gear on the mainshaft cluster in neutral, and the oil pump in that box is driven off the output shaft, so no lube unless its in gear and spinning the output shaft and minimal splash off the countershaft gears in that box either.

In the TC, the drive shafts are back driving into the case spinning the drive chain and the "output" gears, while the input gears driven by the main gearbox aren't spinning (obviously because the engine isn't running) What happens is there is a minimal gap between the selector "clutches" or "cones" or whatever you want to call the slide couplers that couple the various bits together to give drive. The purpose of stopping every 200 miles or so and running the car in gear is to ensure there is enough oil between these faces to stop overheating and possible wear and damage. While its unlikely to happen, I have seen a TC destroyed from flat towing because there wasn't enough lube on the non rotating faces to prevent wear.

Also seen them drop into gear from hitting potholes, but thats usually from worn selector balls interlocks and weak springs. (ask any land rover owner about that problem when they decide to select 4L at 40 mph)
 

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if thats the case and every gear on the mainshaft is rotating in neutral, how does neutral work?
The gears are not engaged to the output portion of the mainshaft, unless the shift collars are locked into their specific selected gear positions Gearboxes by design rely on being able to turn the mainshaft gears at different speeds to give you your different ratios.
Actually, the countershaft provides power to the gears on the mainshaft. They are not engaged at all, spinning freely on needle bearings, until locked to the shaft by shift collars. The "usually" only fixed gearing is input shaft to counershaft.
Not all boxes work the same remember. I can show you one in my shop at present that only spins the input shaft, countershaft and 1 gear on the mainshaft cluster in neutral, and the oil pump in that box is driven off the output shaft, so no lube unless its in gear and spinning the output shaft and minimal splash off the countershaft gears in that box either.
We're discussing the Samurai gearbox. A Caterpillar shuttleshift semi automatic transmission has two counter rotating countershafts, providing shifting to reverse in any gear (its in forward and reverse simultaneously, powering one countershaft, or, the other by engaging hydraulic clutch packs on the selected shaft), without clash, so, many designs are out there in the world.
In the TC, the drive shafts are back driving into the case spinning the drive chain and the "output" gears, while the input gears driven by the main gearbox aren't spinning (obviously because the engine isn't running) What happens is there is a minimal gap between the selector "clutches" or "cones" or whatever you want to call the slide couplers that couple the various bits together to give drive. The purpose of stopping every 200 miles or so and running the car in gear is to ensure there is enough oil between these faces to stop overheating and possible wear and damage. While its unlikely to happen, I have seen a TC destroyed from flat towing because there wasn't enough lube on the non rotating faces to prevent wear.
The Samurai TC (which we are discussing) has no chain. The sliding shift collars are riding in the oil all the time, as well as the output shaft support bearings (provided the oil is at the proper level). Whenever the output shaft is turning, oil is thrown around the case, lubing the needle bearings , which the gears on the output shaft ride on. I would suggest you look at the TC schematic in the Suzuki FSM, how see how the parts are laid out.
Also seen them drop into gear from hitting potholes, but thats usually from worn selector balls interlocks and weak springs. (ask any land rover owner about that problem when they decide to select 4L at 40 mph)
I'm sure slipping out of/into gear is possible, but highly unlikely (once again, we're talking about Samurai, not Land Rover/Jeep, Toyota. . . )
You seem to be familiar with different 4X4 systems, but each has their own quirks, Samurai included. I try to familiarize myself with the components of the vehicles I own and work on. One of the more frustrating is the NV5600 6spd, in my Dodge Cummins, which has a few design flaws built in, as well as being discontinued and lacking replacement parts. but that's another story.
 
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