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Discussion Starter #1
i have already asked this in another posting about hp problems i was having, but i figured new issue/new thread. I have a 94 samurai with a stock 1.3L 8 valve SOHC engine. I have read that this is a non-interference engine. my timing belt broke the other night on my way home. I spent the better part of yesterday trying to track down a belt and other parts i need for the engine. after ordering the belt i got under the hood and lined the crank and cam sprockets up to wait for the new belt. when i turned he cam, i heard a faint grinding sound and felt a good deal of resistance. is the information i found bad, and the valves are messed up? or is there something else that could be causing this?
 

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The Suzuki 8V, SOHC engine IS NON interference.

When turning the cam you WILL feel resistance, you're opening the valves and doing so against the valve springs which are trying to keep them closed, you may even find that the cam turns on it's own (does not stay where you put it), because of those springs.
 

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I wouldn't comment on a grinding sound without hearing it - your idea of grinding might be my idea of a rubbing sound.

There's not much in the head to "grind" - the cam runs in three "holes" in the head - I say holes because there are no bearing journals, the cam runs directly in the aluminum head, and the lobes rub against the surface of the rockers - you have no oil pressure at this point so there is no lubrication (not that you need much).

Change the belt & tensioner, get the timing right and I'm sure you'll be just fine.
 

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fordem's right. There are some timing belt manufacturers out there that post false information on vehicles being interferance so that you are spooked into changing the belt every 60K miles. If you thought that your engine would be destroyed from a broken timing belt you would be more likely to change it frequently. The misinformation has found its way into the comunity and there are quite a few people out there now who think their engine is interferance when it is not. Not just samurais, I've had two other vehicles where the information from that timiing belt manufacturer listed it incorrectly.
 

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The Suzuki 8V, SOHC engine IS NON interference.

When turning the cam you WILL feel resistance, you're opening the valves and doing so against the valve springs which are trying to keep them closed, you may even find that the cam turns on it's own (does not stay where you put it), because of those springs.
Well thats good to know that if the belt breaks you wont bend valves. Just changed my belt for prevenetive mait. Vehicle has 98,600 miles on it history Unknown I still feel a little more secure because a belt can ruin your whole day.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well thats good to know that if the belt breaks you wont bend valves. Just changed my belt for prevenetive mait. Vehicle has 98,600 miles on it history Unknown I still feel a little more secure because a belt can ruin your whole day.
absolutely, a busted belt can ruin your day. especially if it was the third day in a row you've had your vehicle in the shop trying to get it running right. though all of the issues i've had with my samurai have been small, they have been spaced out just enough to be a royal pain in my butt.
 

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With an older vehicle, you almost need a backup vehicle so you can take your time getting it in good running shape. Taking it to a shop gets pretty pricey. I put a new belt so that I could be confident with my vehicle, mine is an 83 thats 23 years old who knows if its ever been changed. Check all your brakes, are your hoses old cracking? I am guilty of blowing up an engine because of a heater hose blowing and not seeing my gauge until it was too late. With an old car you got to get familiar with every thing possible, otherwise just hope your lucky. You can catch many things befor they strand you. Have Fun!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
breaks are all in great shape. the front pads will get me well through the spring and possibly through the summer before i have to think about replacing them. all of the hoses are in great shape. the only issue i've had with the cooling system was when i changed the thermostat, i didn't tighten the housing enough hand had a very small leak there. there is a fair amount of body rust that i'd like to start working on this summer. hopefully, within a couple summers, i'll have her all the way back to her original glory.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
well, i got the timing belt on... no luck. she won't run. i can smell gas when i turn it over. and I've got spark. i need some ideas on what to look at.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Pull cover and check timing marks
checked them twice yesterday in hopes that was all i had done wrong. if memory serves, there are actually two marks on the cam sprocket. but only one mark above it to line up to. my haynes manual only references one, but doesn't say which one. i'll try using both marks tonight when i get home, but i'm quite certain it is already set to the same mark it was when the engine ran.
 

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Thats only thing I could think of. It was running when it broke . so unless youve done something it should run. Im going to assume that the guys that said the motor is non interfeirance are correct and that valves could not possibly be bent. Did you understand timing the motor (timing marks) and I always go another step though unessesary I turn the motor 2 times then recheck my marks just to recheck myself
 

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Discussion Starter #14
i did that extra test as well. marks lined up at the end of the second revolution of the crank. if the valves are messed up, then at least one or two of the cylinders should fail a compression test. i'll check that after double checking the timing.
 

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I like your approach - you think things through and then choose a course of action - my guess is you have the cam 180* out of time (set to the wrong mark).
 

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Discussion Starter #16
i would have thought that issue with the cam as well, but oddly enough, the two marks are not 180* off from each other.

thank you for the compliment. I'm an engineer gone chemist, so i've had a lot of practice with systematically solving issues.
 

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I just changed mine a few weeks ago. mine wasent broke so I slipped one off and the other right on. did not notice other marks both crank and cam were pointed up not down. If you allready rechecked it I dont see where the problem could be but you got this dought on a second set of marks? If yours was broken then how do you know what mark it was running on? You said you think its the same mark. If you installed it way off you can tell the motor has a diff sound when its cranked because no compression.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
i know it's the same mark because last week when i had a lot of hp issues i hooked up a timing light and the mark on the crank pulley was resting way off from where it should be and i reset the belt hoping that would fix the issue. that didn't work because the cam timing was fine, it ended up being the distributor that was causing that problem. the cap, rotor, wires, and plugs are all brand new now, and i checked to make sure the wires are in the correct sequence. i checked the timing on the distributor again, and it's right where it needs to be. when i turn the crank by hand, i can feel compression four times in the two revolutions (like i should be feeling), but i'm going to check the compression tonight to make sure it's high enough. another thought i have is that it was parked outside while i couldn't work on it and the past few days have been bitterly cold. maybe the fuel line is frozen and all i need is a two dollar bottle of drygas.
 

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i know it's the same mark because last week when i had a lot of hp issues i hooked up a timing light and the mark on the crank pulley was resting way off from where it should be and i reset the belt hoping that would fix the issue. that didn't work because the cam timing was fine, it ended up being the distributor that was causing that problem. the cap, rotor, wires, and plugs are all brand new now, and i checked to make sure the wires are in the correct sequence. i checked the timing on the distributor again, and it's right where it needs to be. when i turn the crank by hand, i can feel compression four times in the two revolutions (like i should be feeling), but i'm going to check the compression tonight to make sure it's high enough. another thought i have is that it was parked outside while i couldn't work on it and the past few days have been bitterly cold. maybe the fuel line is frozen and all i need is a two dollar bottle of drygas.
If you can 'smell fuel' then could you possibly have a broke fuel line? Try a can of ether, just a touch and see if it tries to start, if it TRIES to start then you have a fuel issue. Just make sure to get the 90%+ can of ether, the 70% wont even burn.
 
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