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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Me again:lol: Had a samurai build going ( http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-jimny-sierra-samurai-forum/180185-barbados-build.html ) but it came to a point along the build that with the bits I wanted to install it made more sense to build a first gen vitara than to carry on with the samurai. Plus I always wanted to build a vitara but could never find one with a price worth doing it.

Anyways, after deciding a vitara was the best way to go for my build goal, I parted out the samurai and kept the bits that were transferrable (Toyota axles, gearbox, and Suzuki 1.6L engine).

:(

Picked up this stock 1.6L 8v auto 1990 model afterwards


Slowly started to pull her apart even before making a full plan:lol:... was that excited. All I knew is the stock axles and suspension definitely needed to come off.






Next I needed to determine suspension geometry... Initial plan was to order the bracketry from Trail Tough from they Trail Slayer kit but decided to go 4 link front and rear as this wouldn't be a daily driven vehicle.


After discovering the vitara WMS is actually a tad bit wider than the standard Toyota pickup's 55" WMS I opted to do the IFS hub and rear housing to give me a 58" WMS




 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Also had come 15x12 American Racing alloys but after test fitting I found they'll probably foul on the shocks in the way I plan to mount them




Will be going with a bigger brake kit which is designed for the IFS hub conversion. More on that when the parts get here.

Plasmacut off most of the stock bracketry




Stock engine out


Same engine from samurai build went in initially. Plan was to use the RingR kit to mate this to the Toyota gearbox and easily mount everything easily.


Suspension link geometry in the link calculator with the current engine for upper link clearance





Now after measuring I found the gearbox shifter location is under the dash and not in the factory hole in my body so I had to come with an idea to do a remote shifter. SO came up with the idea to use a shifter from a Suzuki swift and mount that onto the auto transmission shifter plate in the stock location. Mock up went like this but stopped until I get the gearbox in.



Suspension bracketry

 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
High pinion front housing


Housing trussing



Ruff Stuff shock towers


Then things started to get exciting. After doing some web browsing I found a guy on this forum doing a v6 twin turbo using the Suzuki V6 engine... Thought that would be a great idea and thought about it. Since these engines came in Vitaras it shouldn't be that hard to mount one into mine and turbo charge it as well:D
So went around and got hold of couple of them. One that's blown that I can use for mock up, learning and testing theories with and the other to build and install afterwards
Blown & test dummy engine


Had to import a V6 manual gearbox bell housing as we only got auto V6s here.

***FUN FACT*** - The H series manual gearbox bell housings bolts directly onto Toyota G & W series gearboxes. Suzuki & Toyota used the same company "Aisin" to provide them gearboxes and Aisin pretty much supplied each manufacturer with the same gearbox. :p

Like the guy on here that gave me the idea I saw he was doing a 180 degree flip on the intake manifold and two independent throttle bodies. After brainstorming and measuring its actually easier to do this with a twin intercooler setup over using 1 inlet and outlet on a twin turbo setup.


After trying this the manifold fouled the valve covers so I'll need to make a spacer. Next was to find throttle setup that works for what I wanted... Found this setup off another V6 twin intake plenum car. Didn't know but luck was on my side as the throttle was exactly same size as my intake openings:p


Will take some modifying to work but I'll find a way
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
How it should look when done


CNC billet adapter plates



Test fitment-ish.... Still need the manifold spacer to clear the valve covers. Also will need to find a way to make the throttle linkage to fit between the throttles


The stock setup uses a Optical sensor ran off the back of the left bank exhaust camshaft to determine engine & cam position. This uses a small disc that provides a crank signal (360 very small slots on the outer rim) and cam position ( 6 inner slots). This is all fine and dandy for regular use but when pushing the engine above what they were designed to do, these sensors can become an issue for not providing an accurate crankshaft position reading due to timing stretch and or slap. This can cause misfires, and may even cause an engine to blow depending on how close to the limit you are when a misfire occurs.


This can easily be resolved by a lower resolution disc provided by the aftermarket that an aftermarket ecu can use to get a more accurate readout for the crankshaft position but it still isn't the best option.

This changes the OEM 360 crank pulse & 6 cam pulse signals to a more reliable simpler 12 crank pulse & 1 cam pulse for aftermarket ecus to decode and run the engine a bit better than OEM with way less timing scatter.

The most accurate way of doing engine trigger signals is directly off the crank & cam separately. Luckily for me Suzuki tested with direct crank trigger on the H25/27 engines and I found a 24 tooth crank trigger wheel on my H25 timing sprocket. This wheel isn't use in stock form but has a plug in the location where a sensor would've been used when Suzuki was testing. I would easily need to remove the plug and use the appropriate sensor used by Suzuki and this would give me a 24 pulse crank trigger directly off the crankshaft. Next up would be to get a direct trigger off the camshaft. I can reuse the stock optical sensor and use only the cam pulse. With this method I will need to use the aftermarket disc to give 1 cam pulse per engine cycle. This I thought though was still too bulky for just a simple cam pulse. Again thanks to Suzuki testing triggering options for their V6 engines, some H25/27 came with a cam sensor boss on the timing cover to read a trigger off the right bank intake camshaft sprocket. Sadly my engine didn't have this boss and I had to look around for a timing cover that has both the test cam & crank bosses Suzuki used. eBay to the rescue I found one off a scrapping 2008 grand vitara.

The bosses can be seen clearly In this pic. The sensors are the same as those used on the J20 engines, so as a lot of other similar stuff Suzuki used that are interchangeable between them both.

So with the trigger done and determined, now was time to choose an ECU to run the entire thing. After many options available, I've opted to go with an AEM Infinity! Never used one before but based on reviews its one of the best out that money can buy. This can run my V6 in full sequential mode and the hardware I plan to add to it to make it all work reliably. More importantly can decode the stock triggering patterns.:D


Also dragged some old laptops out and will be dedicating the Toshiba to this project. Just will need to swap out to a solid state drive and upgrade the RAM etc. Will post on that when I do it. The smaller ACER was for the megasquirt samurai project & the HP is my personal which is 17.5" which is a little too big.


This is as far as I've gotten and will update as more gets done
 

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Super interesting stuff for me. I will probably never go that deep into things, but I love reading about what is possible and how folks like you make your decisions.

Thanks for sharing and keep us updated.

randy
 

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Are there any updates yet?
:lol:

Man, some guys have all the fun.
A very ambitious build, looking forward to seeing it all come together.

My old HP's the same size with vista.
The new one's an Acer, I went with cloning onto a solid state drive, win10, that sucker sure boots quick.

Please do keep us posted. Loving the details.

:thumbsup:


^_^

Don

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Not much happened since last update but will do one to prevent the thread from getting lost in days or month of threads

The new engine position sensor cover will require all new sensors. The crank sensor has a built on pigtail but the cam sensor needs the mating connector with a pigtail to wire in so went about getting on off a wrecked Suzuki


Had to buy this water outlet fitting from a guy in Australia as it was impossible to find one locally. Its the OEM part on the JB Grand Vitaras. The radiator I have planned to go in will sit quite low and doesn't have a filler/pressure cap location


Then went about mocking up the dummy engine to measure for mounts




The mounts I've chosen should lower the engine another 1-2 inches and I have room to also move it back 2".
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I've decided and committed to dry sumping my engine as the stock sump is kind of in the way of my upper suspension arms and also not sure how much the stock oil system would like the fact I've added two turbochargers in the system. To invest soo much money in an engine build to cheap out on the oiling system wouldn't make sense. So I went about on how to best to do it with as many off the shelf items as I can. The custom bits would be an engine sump and a finding the best way to drive the oil pump off the crankshaft.

Found this drive mandrel which will work great with very minor machine work to fit the stock crankshaft pulley and keep the alternator and power steering pump in the stock location. Have ordered the crankshaft drive gear and will be taking measurements when I get that to get the dry sump pump mounted in the area the stock AC compressor was

Also got two used but rebuildable condition Borg Warner turbochargers


These turbos are journal bearing oil only units off a commercial diesel bus and each should be good for 3-350bhp. Once fitment is over and before final assembly, I'll be sending them to the UK to be professionally rebuilt. Mocked them up where I wanted them to fit onthe engine and this is how it should look:D
 

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Can hardly wait to see the new oil pan.

Looking good!!!


Don

^_^

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Hey KMD - i live in Poland and we have plenty of Vitara I 5d in V6 (2.0 H20 engine) - I have 1997 with 2.5 out of GV with 03-72LE a/t.

Anyway, if you will need some parts which are hard to get for Vitara 1 V6 let me know - I will ship it to you.

Btw Vitara I 5d in 4 cylinder has slightly narrower frame than V6 version. Here is side by side foto of mine and stock 1.6





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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Hey KMD - i live in Poland and we have plenty of Vitara I 5d in V6 (2.0 H20 engine) - I have 1997 with 2.5 out of GV with 03-72LE a/t.

Anyway, if you will need some parts which are hard to get for Vitara 1 V6 let me know - I will ship it to you.

Btw Vitara I 5d in 4 cylinder has slightly narrower frame than V6 version. Here is side by side foto of mine and stock 1.6





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Hey man thanks for the offer. I've pretty much collected most of the stuff I need. Other small bits I can get hold of locally. I have to order a new water inlet pipe for the H25 as mine is rusted, but that's about it. If you can get me a H27A cheap that would be great though:D

I've discovered the frame is narrower on the 4 cyl chassis when I mocked up the dummy engine with stock mounts into mine. To combact this issue, I'll be using the stock engine mount brackets on the block, and BMW E46 aftermarket offset poly mounts. When I measured this should allow me to use most off the shelf parts to mount the engine albeit from different vehicles with the only bits I have to fabricate is new chassis motor mount brackets which I've already drawn out to work with the setup I've explained above. I've designed these to be welded to the chassis rail and allow the engine to be mounted as low as possible. Will post pics when I get around to doing it
 

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H27a ain’t cheap :). They are less popular as they come from xl7. But 180 hp sounds good in Vitara.

Swap from h20a to h27a is more problematic as u need to swap the harness as well. With h25a swap all you need is the engine with 2.5 injectors. Old 2.0 computer (ecu) will work fine


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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
H27a ain’t cheap :). They are less popular as they come from xl7. But 180 hp sounds good in Vitara.

Swap from h20a to h27a is more problematic as u need to swap the harness as well. With h25a swap all you need is the engine with 2.5 injectors. Old 2.0 computer (ecu) will work fine


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I'm using little to none of the stock harness so not an issue. New milspec harness will be built to go along with the new EMS

Got hold of a set of new 16" 2.0 King RR coilovers at a very good price.


So will go ahead and order some King 2.0 hydraulic bumps and cans to match along with offroad Anti-roll bars and limit straps to do it right one time. Have 4 200lb 16" coils to use that I'll use to do the corner weights to spring it properly when I get the shocks installed. Believe it'll end up with 150lb uppers but the calculations will tell for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Slight update.

I've been mostly collecting parts and not really working on her yet but here are the stuff I've acquired.

Got some TMR shock mounts for the rear axle


AKG Poly Engine Mounts... Have a design made and cut out to send off to be made from metal for the new engine mount brackets to be welded to the frame.. Will post when I get them back and have them bent and ready to weld on.


OEM Suzuki Engine position sensors to setup the trigger patterns


New Halo Projector Headlights


Tacoma Brake Caliper Swap Brackets


Turbo Manifold Weld Elbows and flanges


Pro Comp 15x10 Steelies with some BFG KM2s... Considering going to KM3s



Was trying to do triangulated 4 link front and rear but at ride height with the amount of up travel I'm looking for it would be too tall so I had to shift stuff around now to do three link with panhard up front.With the 3 link front I can stuff the front axle pretty high up without having to worry about the link brackets contacting the engine. This meant I can use a manual steering box and use an electric assisted P/S column... So I acquired one.


Much more stuff are on the way.... Will update as they come and as I do more.
 

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I've been mostly collecting parts and not really working on her yet but here are the stuff I've acquired.

I can safely say - the understatement of the day here!!!

You bring "collecting" to an all new level!!
:trophy:


What is the steering out of?

I used one from a Toyota for power steering on my backhoe.


Don

^_^

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Wow!, its been almost 2 years since last updateo_O. Between work, life and COVID, I didn’t make any significant progress but the project still exists.. Will try to pool up what was done since last post and bring it up to date soon, but quick update,intercooler has been bought and mocked up and fits perfectly, suspension design had been finalized and all the bracketry is ready to go on,ALL NEW full vehicle motorsports electronics package has been purchased and engine position has been finalized and is now welded into place…..also ditched the two cable throttle bodies for two Drive-By-Wire units to take advantage of the new electronics🙃. Detailed update to come as soon as I can.
101672
 

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nice, but you better hurry up, looks like you have though competition here in the forum...


as for the electric PS, an ignis unit would be very small considering your huge tires IMHO.

Would look for a unit from a bigger/heavier car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
nice, but you better hurry up, looks like you have though competition here in the forum...


as for the electric PS, an ignis unit would be very small considering your huge tires IMHO.

Would look for a unit from a bigger/heavier car.
Trinidad is a neighbor country to where I am. His is a similar "ground up" concept but our builds are way different. He seems to be using the stock engine structure and around maybe 10psi, where I am swapping and building an engine to run 20+ psi of boost and aiming for around 4-500hp (fingers crossed I don't blow it up too much times getting the combo right that I run out of spare engines :D). Sadly for me no one else seems to have done a Suzuki V6 engine build to the extent I'm doing that I can find online atleast other than Monster Tajima's Pikes Peak race cars, so I had to figure out what fits and works for my goals and what can't fit or work will need to be custom made which takes up time and costs extra $$$$$. Takes longer yes but I think putting ones knowledge and skill to the test is the fun of a build, atleast for me it is. He is also using stock suspension and drivetrain architecture, whereas I'm completely redesigning the entire suspension from scratch and with everything after the engine being swapped out for the beefier toyota stuff. The stock vitara front drivetrain is a definite no no for me. With lockers and aggressive tires with what we do here, kills the differential and front axles immediately with stock engines so sending 5 times more horsepower than stock to them would be a waste of time and money. I'll also be doing a full mil-spec rewire of the entire vehicle and not just the engine.;) His build looks like its built low like you would with a mud drag racing build but here in Barbados at that height, I would high center on obstacles often so a bit more height and suspension is needed to do the sort of off-roading we do here. My build has no deadline nor am I rushing to get it finished honestly. Its just a project to occupy my free time and see what my brain and hands can come up with. Its a "Whenever its done, its done" sort of projects. Hopefully with covid gone and the world back to some sort of normality though, and whenever my build is done, it would be nice to take it down to Trinidad to do some wheeling down there as they have WAYYY more landmass to explore than in my country that's for sure:cool: .

In regards to the PS, I have both the Ignis and a Corsa C unit which I can choose from. I've seen many builds using 35s on smaller units with no issues so hopefully mine will be ok. If not ill bite the bullet and upgrade to the biggest DCE Motorsports unit available.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Will do an update going based on the images I have and what was last posted here. May miss a few bits but will edit later if I need to.

So after finding out the hard way that the V6 chassis width etc is different to the 4 cylinders I found myself in a situation where the engine didn’t wanna fit with enough room left up front for a sufficient cooling package. Intercooler and radiator with fan and shroud needed at least 12” of its own real estate based on the measurements I got from the suppliers. This mean the engine had to go back even more than I originally thought which would cause firewall to bell housing clearance issues. So to combat this means I had to lower the engine more in addition to pushing it back into the engine bay. Lowering the engine meant engine to differential clearance will become an issue as well so it took lots of fiddling with suspension design, diff placement etc but getting the engine where it needs to be is most important. After this was finalized I took my cardboard engine mounts design onto CAD and got the design done out and bent in steel
101687


Ordered the intercooler, which essentially is two intercoolers welded together and was originally designed for a twin turbo Nissan, but fits perfectly in between the headlights and body structure of a Vitara and has enough cooling area to handle my initial 4-500hp goal. Well almost fits perfectly as I had to do some cutting to the back of the grille and removable cross beam area above the grille to get it to fit forward enough to leave enough room for the radiator package to clear the engine. But once everything is fitted, no one can see where the cutting was done. The intercooler two outlets will need to be modified slightly to point in the area of my throttle bodies for my application.
101688

101689


Originally was going to use a 22x13 dual pass radiator kit with a dual pass oil cooler mounted on top of the radiator. So with those dimensions I mocked up everything out of card board boxes to ensure it would all work like how I had in mind.
101690


but after some further thought I ended up ditching the oil cooler idea and try maximizing the space for all radiator which ended up being a 22x16x3” unit which Ron Davis has as an off the shelf piece with fan and shroud kit included. For keeping the oil cool I would run a 3 Gallon Oil tank for the dry sump, hopefully this massive quantity of oil and the use off a cooler water sprayer kit will keep everything cool. If not I’ll have to revisit cooling when that time comes. Above you can also see how limited space is between the engine and what would be the radiator without a fan or shroud. Engine must go back more.

and since we are on the dry sump topic
101691


Aviaid 3 stage oil pump was purchased in case it was needed when fitting the engine for clearance purposes. This will be going in the area where the AC compressor once lived and will drive off of a modified J18 crank pulley and mandrel. I wanted at least 4 or maybe 5 stages to have a minimum or 3 scavenge stages but the engine mount bracket got into the way of anything longer than a 3 stage so I opted to use one for now. If I do end up needing more scavenging I’ll custom make a engine mount bracket in the future for a bigger pump, but for now this should work. I have to take the pulley to a machine guy to get the work done as when I was scheduled to do it, the Ronies virus took over the world and everything went to a halt.

101692

24 tooth crank drive gear will be used after calculating optimum oil pump speed based on my engine rpm range.

Now with advanced technology being more available and prices dropping to being more affordable, I had no reason to not jump onto the bandwagon and get all up to date electronics for my build. So after months of research of what’s available and what I need to do what I would like to do, I ended up choosing ECUMaster as my new brand of electronics as they are one of the very few companies who offer products to provide a full vehicle electronics package at a price no one else can match, and capabilities to be on par with some of the more costly competitors. So I dropped the ball and purchased an EMU Black (ECU), ADU5 (digital dash), PDM16AS (power distribution module. No more fuses or relays. It’s all done solid state electronically in this box with logic), EGT to CAN module (8 EGT inputs for individual cylinder monitoring and trimming), Battery isolator (electronically controlled kill switch with diagnostics), EDL-1(SD card data logger with Bluetooth), 12 button CAN keypad and USB-CAN module ( to communicate with all the above with only one cable to the laptop).
101693

A general pic of some of what’s listed above to give an idea as I don’t have a pic with all my bits together

So after going with an ecu which can control 1 DBW throttle and the two cable driven throttles seem like it was more effort than it was worth to get them to work together off on throttle pedal cable, getting a DBW throttle to fit was next on my agenda which allows all the fun strategies (Turbo Antilag for example 😁) it made more sense for me to do a DBW throttle now and be done. I was going to use a BMW DBW actuator and adapted it to my existing cable throttle but again was still more effort than it was worth so I ditched the cable throttle and went with a 60mm Bosch DBW unit. Being there were a few used ones I can grab locally, this I did and spent the money instead on figuring out the best way to adapt it to my intake manifold.
101694

here it is with a weld flange I purchased.
plan now was to flip the intake manifold back to it’s original orientation and fabricate a Y-pipe (or W pipe) to merge the two plenums to one so they’ll both feed from same throttle body like it’s done stock.

101695

since I’m on electronics, also ordered a steering wheel button kit. Since I’ll no longer be using the combo switch for indicators and headlights etc, this kit mounts to a racing steering wheel so you can retain having access to these functions without having to take your hands off the steering wheel.

here is a pic of how one looks installed
101696
 
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