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Discussion Starter #1
hi i recently bought an sj413 with 1.6 8 valve engine, shackle reverse up front and 2" shackle lift all round. its running on 31" tires and the problem is the front wheels are rubbing the back of the front arches when on rough ground and any way near full lock. the rear wheels also hit the arches when cornering at any decent speed. I realise the tires are probably to big for the amount of lift but i don't have the money to do a spring lift all round, was thinking of lifting the body an inch or two, would this solve the problem? This samy will in daily use so want to keep it practical but also very able off road. Is the the body a good idea? any advice would be great.
 

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Short answer - yes. Body lifts make the car more "tippy" (just like any lift) so bear that in mind. Also bear in mind that you're going to have to make or buy pucks for a body lift.

It's actually easier (if you ask me) to do a spring over axle conversion. You just need some 50x100x3mm box and a good welder. If it's a Samurai rather than an SJ413, then you just cut a hole through the box section, cut that in half to make the perches, and weld it to the axle. If it's a 413 (non sammy) then one of your perches needs to be wider on one side because the leafs are set closer together (one of the front ones rests slightly on the diff):



*Edit* I stitch drilled that, so it's got rough edges. I used an angle grinder to smooth off the edges then bevel them ready for welding to the axle.



I say this because then you can sell the shackle reverse kit and you should be a few quid better off.

If you can't weld or just don't want to, then a body lift is fairly simple, it's just awkward and the body is *HEAVY*. It's only held on by (if memory serves) 6 or 8 bolts.

Just take a bit of ally bar, drill a hole through it the same size as the bolts you're gonna use, jack the body off the chassis enough to slip them in, and then drop the bolts through. I *think* some of the bolts are captive, you'll have to angry grind those off and drill through so you can use your own bolts instead.
 

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A spring over conversion is going to be way more work than a body lift, especially if it's going to be properly done.

In addition to the welding shown above (which just covers the spring perches), longer shocks or modified shock mounts will be required back & front, some sort of hi-steer to deal with "bump steer" and you really should be looking at some sort of "bam bar" to prevent axle wrap.

In contrast a body lift will simply require the pucks to lift the body, a steering column & gear/transfer case shifter extensions.

Both will require extended brake lines.
 

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I've done both to my zuk, and doing the body lift was harder. The body just didn't want to shift, and I ended up using a scissor jack to get the body and chassis to seperate. The body just didn't want up - it was as if they were glued together as well as bolted - and it wasn't a rust issue either.

I did an SPOA conversion, then removed the body lift. Merc steering arms (full high steer kit) with new steering bar etc. I did it "properly" as you put it and it was definately easier than the body lift. It probably shouldn't have been, in theory you are correct - the body lift -should- have been easier.

But it wasn't. The SPOA conversion was much less effort.

You're right about the brake lines, shocks etc. I guess I forgot the more trivial, but just as important bits. I'd still recommend SPOA over a body lift any day though.
 

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Fordem is correct . A SPOA ,done correctly, is and always will be the "not for the beginner" lift........
I never will recomend a body lift over 1 "
Sliding your axles forward might help...
If I were in your position , I'd be looking at an OME 2" spring lift added to what you have now.... Or a set of 30" tires....
The lift will be the least costly in time and parts cost.
You will still need the extended brake lines. And a shock relocate...Boxcar...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
does a spoa give a lift of 4"? I looked at them before, i don't think i'd have much of a problem up the mounts. i was wondering if i made my own z drag link would that sort the steering and bum steer?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
hi thanks for the advice, just wondering what a bam bar is, never heard of it. still learning alll the terms for all the different parts.
 

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Google is your friend - a bam bar is a bar between the axle and the chassis that limits the rotation of the axle housing.

When torque is applied through a live axle, the axle housing will twist in the opposite direction and will attempt to twist the leaf spring into an 'S' shape - the problem is usually more pronounced with spring over than it is with spring under - due I believe - to the weight of the vehicle - with spring under, the weight is hanging below the axle and resists the twist, with spring over the weight is above the axle and assists the twist.

To make a long story short - spring over, on springs not designed for such use, will rapidly destroy the spring unless some sort of bar is fitted to control the twist - there are different designs, hence my use of the term "some sort".
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks for the info, i'm learning slowly. i think the best option for the moment is to move the front axel froward. it seems to me to have no hidden cost bar a spacer for the drive shaft and will solve the problem of the front wheels rubbing the back of the arches. when i have more money i might look in to a suspension lift. thanks everyone for your help
 

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does a spoa give a lift of 4"? I looked at them before, i don't think i'd have much of a problem up the mounts. i was wondering if i made my own z drag link would that sort the steering and bum steer?
More like 5-6". The width of the axle, the width of the old perch, the width of the new perch and the width of the leaf spring all combine to give you your "lift" figure. A very narrow perch = lower lift, a bigger perch = bigger lift.

Z-bars aren't generally well thought of because they don't stop (or perhaps even cause) bump-steer. I wouldn't know, I never had one, but Mercedes steering arms work a charm for a high-steer kit. Burr the rear hole slightly and it just bolts on. Then shorten the steering bar and you're away. Google mercedes high steer, I'm sure you'll find a writeup.

In the U.S, this is commonly known as a traction bar.

Grizzley Fab Traction Bar For Samurai | iZook
Don't quote me on this, but I *think* traction bars and bam bars are different. Traction bar:



Bam bar:



I'm not certain I'm right about that, but I think bam bars and traction bars are different approaches to the anti-wrap issue. I personally prefer the "bam bar" because it has less of a limiting effect on articulation. In theory... :p

thanks for the info, i'm learning slowly. i think the best option for the moment is to move the front axel froward. it seems to me to have no hidden cost bar a spacer for the drive shaft and will solve the problem of the front wheels rubbing the back of the arches. when i have more money i might look in to a suspension lift. thanks everyone for your help
If you do a suspension lift, whichever way you do it (tougher springs, SPOA, add-a-leafs) they all have pro's and cons. Make sure you source a complete kit before you start work and if you're not sure, get someone who is sure to help you.
 

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Gradar, I am sorry about helping take your post off-course with the talk of bam/traction bars. Neither of these are normally fitted to a front axle and probably never for a shackle reversal.

Not sure how much the shackle reversal has already moved you axle forward, but check the clearance between your drag-link and the axle. This will give you an idea about how much you can move it forward.

Maybe some pictures that would show your existing clearance and drag-link angle might help.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
its alright, i'm finding it all interesting. Is there any cons to moving the axel forward 3/4" to an inch forward. i'm guessing it would affect suspension and ride comfort. Am i right in thinking the only extra thing i need is a spacer for the front half shaft. i am unable to get pics at the moment as i am working away from home, will try take some on the weekend.
 

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Here is some information on the stock front driveshaft that might help in determining whether you need a spacer or not.

Pirate4x4.Com - View Single Post - *FAQ* The Official PBB Suzuki BIBLE-updated AUG 29 2011

All figures include both u-joints and flanges, flange mounting surface to flange mounting surface unless stated otherwise.

-Fully collapsed compressed: 27.25"
-Fully extended, with the slip yoke and drive shaft physically touching but
NO spline engagement: 31.25"
1" of splined engagement: 30"
2" of splined engagement: 29"
3" of splined engagement: 28"
3.75" of splined engagement is maximum engagement (now back at full compression)
 
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