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Discussion Starter #1
Hi
I recently downsized from 18inch factory alloys to 17inch aftermarket steel rims.
My wheel aligner, different to the tyre and rim supplier is suggesting that over time there may be an issue with balance and tyre wear because the steel rims don't seat on the wheel hub like the factory alloys.
It's now only the wheel nuts and studs carrying the weight and pounding of driving down the road not the hub.
Has any one had issues with this?
Thanks for the help.
 

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You should be using hub centric rims, not stud centric on these vehicles.
You will experience different wear as the rims will "move" slightly on the studs. Regular torqing of the wheel nuts and use of centering nuts that fit the rim properly will help, along with regular tyre rotation and balancing will minimise the wear issue. Check the studs for any signs of wear, stress cracking or distortion when you rotate the tyres every 5,000 kms.
Your wheel aligner is correct as he will have seen this regularly and will understand why it happens.
The tyre supplier and rim supplier only want to sell you products, if the products they sell mean you have to buy more sooner, then thats a win for them.
 

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Hub centric - stud/lug centric is an old debate that rivals religious debates - the deciding factor is the rim design and the OEM alloys on my third gen are lug/stud centric - remove a lug nut and examine it, if it has a tapered surface it is lug centric, if it is a shanked nut with a flat seating surface and a washer, it is hub centric. The wheel nuts and studs clamp the rim to the hub, and it is the friction between the two that support the weight of the vehicle, the difference between the two is simply how the wheel is centered. With a lug centric rim, the tapered nuts center the wheel, by seating in the matching tapered surface of the rim, with a hub centric rim, the lug nut holes are oversized and have no taper, hub centric rims are centered by the spigot of the hub seating in the center hole, and then clamped with the flat seated nut. The hub spigot is too small to support the weight of the vehicle.

Every vehicle you on the road with steel wheels is using lug centric rims - if there was a problem with the lugs being unable to support the weight of the vehicle and withstand the pounding - you would be seeing a lot of vehicles with broken studs and missing wheels. Go find an eighteen wheeler and see how those wheels are retained - tapered lug nuts, albeit larger than those on a car, as required to exert a larger clamping force.
 

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There's another point I want to mention...

My third gen was supplied with four 17" alloys, as I mentioned previously, lug centric wheels as the road wheels, however, the spare is a "full sized" 16" style wheel, "full sized" in that it is a conventional tire and not a temporary or space-saver spare, also known a dummy or donut spare - being a steel rim, this is also lug centric.

What was your vehicle supplied with - five alloys, or four alloys and a steel rim for the spare? If it came with a steel rim spare, does that steel rim mount any differently to the steel rims you have just fitted?
 

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You should be using hub centric rims, not stud centric on these vehicles.
Suzuki supplies their vehicles with lug centric rims. In over three decades of owning & driving Suzuki, I have yet to see one that left the factory with hub centric rims.
 

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Suzuki supplies their vehicles with lug centric rims. In over three decades of owning & driving Suzuki, I have yet to see one that left the factory with hub centric rims.
then why do my hubs on the factory 18" alloys weld themselves to the boss in the centre of the axle hub making them a bittch to remove when I get a flat? They may be hub and stud centric but theres no way they are just stud centric.
 

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Like I said, look at the nuts, look at the lug nut seats on the rims.



The taper on the lug centric nuts screws into the tapered seat on the rim & centers it, hence the term lug centric; with hub centric rims; the lug holes are large to allow the hub/hub ring to center the rim, and the nut and the washer then clamp the flat surface of the rim to the hub.

If your factory rims have tapered seats, and I'm certain they do, they they are lug centric rims.
 

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Like I said, look at the nuts, look at the lug nut seats on the rims.



The taper on the lug centric nuts screws into the tapered seat on the rim & centers it, hence the term lug centric; with hub centric rims; the lug holes are large to allow the hub/hub ring to center the rim, and the nut and the washer then clamp the flat surface of the rim to the hub.

If your factory rims have tapered seats, and I'm certain they do, they they are lug centric rims.
my factory 18" rims on the 2015 have hub centric nuts. Interesting the 2013 is on 16" rims and are lug centric
 

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What sort of lug seat do the 18" factory rims have?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
What sort of lug seat do the 18" factory rims have?
Thanks for the input guys.
My 2008 GV Prestige came with 5 x 18 inch alloy wheels.
The factory wheel nuts have a tapered seat.
The alloy rims have a tapered seat.
But ...
Clearly the alloys were hard up against the hub, you can see the clean area and the rusty area where the wheel didn't "rub?".
While starting this reply the rep from the wheel manufacturer called me back and basically said:
Factory rims are usually hub centric to make it easier to get the wheels on the hub.
After market and some factory steel wheels are lug/stud centric. A large "hub hole" allows fitment to bigger range of cars.
Studs and nuts hold the wheel to the hub, the pressure and friction between the hub and rim supports the vehicle.
Hub centric rings are usually some form of plastic and only allow easier fitment of the wheel to the hub, they won't take any load.
Stud centric wheels need some care to be placed onto the hub and all the nuts need to be brought up to the rim firmly before torquing them. This way the wheel is centred, all the nuts holding the wheel where it needs to be.
Issues are when tyre fitters use a rattle gun and tighten up one nut at a time.
Steel wheels are like spring washers, the recommendation is to re torque the nuts after a 100 k's after each initial fitment.
==============

I don't mind telling you this issue was losing me some sleep.
I have had a run of people not supplying the service or goods I have paid for and the wheel thing was going to be another pain in the ... you know where.

I would have preferred the manufacturers response in a reply to my email, but I did keep notes of the conversation to be filed.

I did figure out a fix, machined metal rings to suit hub and rim and shrunk (ie heated and dropped over hub) on to make sure they stay.

I am comfortable enough now to leave them the way they are.

Thanks for you input on this.

PS: off the top of your collective heads anyone know the factory torque spec for wheel nuts?
 

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100nm. Been into rattle guns and long torque arms for most of my life but recently decided to do it properly and bought a torque wrench. Found the right value - its either 98 or 100nm. I have the exact value taped to the torque wrench. If you can't find it anywhere I'll dig it out. My RAV4 is 102/103nm. So I now loosen them and retighten them to 100nm after any work. I have 18" alloys and they are lug centric as was the spare which incidentally was NOT the same as the other 4 wheels. It is now though. And the bugger does not fit under the Suzuki cover (slightly oversize tyres) so that has been swapped for a white colour vinyl cover. I still take them off with the rattle gun and do a preliminary tighten but finish with the torque wrench. It is interesting that when using the torque wrench it seems as if the wheels aren't tight enough and you have to resist the temptation to give them a bit extra. I confirmed from several sources that 98/100nm was the correct value so I am picking that everybody who goes to a tyre shop has grossly over tightened lug nuts.
I also managed to pick up a set of 4 X 18" alloys in extremely good nick for a good price but regret doing so now as I think I should have gone for a set of 17" or even 16" steels to allow for more sidewall deflation. I got stuck (but only just in pea gravel but a mate with me who has 16" steels just managed to get through). My original rims now look slightly bead blasted in spots.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
100nm. enough and you have to resist the temptation to give them a bit extra. I confirmed from several sources that 98/100nm was the correct value so I am picking that everybody who goes to a tyre shop has grossly over tightened lug nuts.
I also managed to pick up a set of 4 X 18" alloys in extremely good nick for a good price but regret doing so now as I think I should have gone for a set of 17" or even 16" steels to allow for more sidewall deflation. I got stuck (but only just in pea gravel but a mate with me who has 16" steels just managed to get through). My original rims now look slightly bead blasted in spots.
Thanks I will dig up my torque wrench.
 

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What sort of lug seat do the 18" factory rims have?
mine have flat seats in the rims, not tapered. Wonder if it was something they fitted for the NZ market "limited edition" ones. Mine has silver bonnet inserts, not black by the screen too. The 2013 is on alloys but tapered seats in the rims.
 
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