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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have started a little project to retrofit almost all my light bulbs inside: it kinda started, because I was trying to solve interference on my reverse camera and I saw a long comment on YouTube suggesting to replace the light bulb by LED. Well that didn't work, so long story short: I'm going try to solve it, by putting a relay and getting a clean 12v instead of taking it from the reverse light.

Headlights

Because the headlights need provide good lighting, and also need to pass the MOT ( APK in Dutch ) I decided to go for a semi street legal set from Philips which you can get on Amazon.de and it basically street legal in Germany. So I don't think it would get me any issues in The Netherlands, as they don't really care what for kind of bulbs you have in your car. As long the light image is correct, then they will pass the MOT.

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These LED bulbs from Philips are working great and I can highly recommend them! Just keep in mind, that even though they are street legal in Germany. Perhaps your country is more stricter, so you might wanna uninstall them before your MOT. Actually for all the bulbs I will mention, because the end of the day its a bit of a gray area in legal terms.

Taillights

Next up are the taillights: I though changing the taillights to LED would be quite difficult, because none of the Chinese bulbs on AliExpress are really suitable. They are either way to bright as taillights, or the difference between your taillights and braking isn't very visible which could cause accidents. Because drivers behind you wouldn't be able to see, that you are braking!


Instead of trying to invent the wheel again, and ordering a bunch red LED lights from AliExpress, which wouldn't do the job right. So I decided to use the information YouTuber Sergiu Gabor provided and ordered a set of Osram LEDriving, which are made in Italy. I honestly don't know if its a good thing, because the bulbs have some glue residue on them, something I never saw from Chinese factories making cheap bulbs.

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On the first picture you can see the incandescent light and on the second the LED: on the last two pictures, you can see the LED taillight in the twilight. Its obvious that its a bit brighter than the original incandescent light.

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Sergiu Gabor measured that its twice as bright, as can been seen on the chart above, but more importantly he also measured the light difference between taillight and the brake lights. Only Osram and Philips do good here, so avoid all the Chinese bulbs: because you don't need to blind drivers behind you.

Dome light

The cheapest LED light I ever ordered and actually works good, is the one for the dome light which I found on AliExpress for only € 0,63 and when I bought two of these it was even shipped for free. It's quite easy to replace this light by LED and it's legal as well.

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You might have to get used to the white light of the LED, but I did a Lux measurement of both the old incandescent light and the new LED, and it has increased the light output from 3 to 6 lux. So the dome light is twice as bright with LED, which is an nice improvement for such a small light.

To be continued....

I have done the reverse light as well already, but that's a cheap LED and not worth mentioning: because I'm going replace it by one, tested and recommended by Sergiu Gabor. Also I plan to change the indicator lights, starting with the ones next to the headlight. And also I plan to change the license plate lights to LED, all of which I ordered from AliExpress and I still haven't received them.
 

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Right! 'Oostenrijker' already sounded very very dutch to me ;)
by putting a relay and getting a clean 12v instead of taking it from the reverse light
you could first try it by feeding it from a spare battery (if you have one) or just run a two wire directly from the battery to it.

otherwise, nice job
 

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by the way ... there is a quite common solution in electronics to take out interference:
Adding a capacitor (not sure of the value you'd need here)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Right! 'Oostenrijker' already sounded very very dutch to me ;)

you could first try it by feeding it from a spare battery (if you have one) or just run a two wire directly from the battery to it.

otherwise, nice job
I have both nationalities, Dutch and Austrian :cool: I ordered small 12v batteries for testing purpose, and have been using the DC to DC step down converter in order to test these light bulbs at 12v before putting them in the car.

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With an old 19v notebook adapter, I just put my DC to DC step down converter on it and convert the 19v to 12v. It's quite fun to test these LEDs like this: some are way brighter with the plastic lid covering it, in case of the dome light.

Yes the reverse camera issue has been a bit a pain in the ass, but I'm going use a small 12v battery which should be sufficient to power it for a short time. And test if it works fine like that.

On AliExpress I also saw bigger 12v battery packs, which could easily been hidden below the floor of the trunk. But eventually these batteries would have to be recharged, so that wouldn't be convenient. And it can be a fire hazard...
 

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Bear in mind if the dome circuit is bcm controlled and dims the internal lamp, be very careful fitting leds as they can kill the dimming circuit in the bcm leaving you with a dead bcm, and a rather expensive problem to fix

LED headlight retrofit are never a good idea as the reflector is nit designed for the point light source that an led has. While pattern may be correct, scatter won't be and its very easy to blind oncoming drivers. Fit at your own risk. Here the car will be ordered off the road until factory lamps are refitted.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Bear in mind if the dome circuit is bcm controlled and dims the internal lamp, be very careful fitting leds as they can kill the dimming circuit in the bcm leaving you with a dead bcm, and a rather expensive problem to fix

LED headlight retrofit are never a good idea as the reflector is nit designed for the point light source that an led has. While pattern may be correct, scatter won't be and its very easy to blind oncoming drivers. Fit at your own risk. Here the car will be ordered off the road until factory lamps are refitted.
That's why I fitted Philips H4-LED, which is street legal in Germany: a country of strict rules. They have tested it thoroughly, and are approved to use inside reflector headlights. I wouldn't use any Chinese bulb inside the headlight, because they haven't been developed and tested like the Philips one.

Dome light of Suzuki Celerio is very simple: actually most of the Suzuki Celerio is quite old fashioned, no such thing as a dimming domelight with my Celerio.

But in the Netherlands police doesn't even care: so even though while it's officially not allowed, no cares if you do it anyway. As long as they don't blind others.

So I wouldn't fit any taillights which are to bright for example, or turn signals that way to bright or cause hyperflash. That's why I have used Sergui Gabor YouTube video's, to choose the LED's.


Based on Sergiu Gabor YouTube video about LED indicator bulbs, I was able to find a set that does work good. He still didn't recommend them, because they run hot. But it's a risk I'm willing to take, with indicator lights. As they are used for a short amount of time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I had my first drive today, with the new LED taillights and they work great.

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Benefit of retrofitting both the headlights and taillights, is that your car will become slightly more fuel efficient. Incandescent bulbs use 5watt, and these Osram LEDriving only use 1.7watt totally.

Difference between taillights and brake lights, is very visible. This is something most Chinese bulbs don't get right.
 

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fuel efficient. 5watt down to 1.7watt
It's fits the subreddit "technically the truth"

I tend to share that train of thoughts (there are multiple lights, it adds up) but you'll never gonna notice a difference at the gas station.

Nice job, Great to see how much you enjoy it. That's what it's all about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It's fits the subreddit "technically the truth"

I tend to share that train of thoughts (there are multiple lights, it adds up) but you'll never gonna notice a difference at the gas station.

Nice job, Great to see how much you enjoy it. That's what it's all about.
According to the Dutch AA ( ANWB ) or ADAC normal halogen headlights, use up to 0,6% en 1,4% amount of extra fuel while driving. Whereas LED headlights use between 0,6% and 0,14% extra fuel.

The Philips H4-LED which I fitted, use 18watt. While the halogen headlights use 55watt, and have shorter life span.

But the only lights which you can retrofit and befit from a energy/fuel consumption: are headlights, taillights/brake lights, license plate lights, reverse light, daytime running lights, fog light.

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Indicators would hyperflash if you retrofit LED bulbs, without built-in load resistor: that's why this LED bulb is rated 21w. These don't look like they win a fashion show of aftermarket LED bulbs, but they are suppose to be good.

So these I ordered for LED indicator bulbs: I going try it out in the front unit, because it easier to access. And I first wanna make sure, that they aren't to bright and see if they can last.

I ordered LED bulbs for the license plate lights, reverse light. And the one for the reverse light, could also be fitted as a rear fog light. Just not sure if that would be a good idea.
 

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So, you're fitting led lamps with inbuilt resistance to stop hyper flashing, so adding the same load as what was already there. No fuel savings there.

However if you buy an led compatible flasher, you can then use the lower wattage lamps and the flasher us solid state and lighter than the original, Viola, fuel savings......
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
So, you're fitting led lamps with inbuilt resistance to stop hyper flashing, so adding the same load as what was already there. No fuel savings there.

However if you buy an led compatible flasher, you can then use the lower wattage lamps and the flasher us solid state and lighter than the original, Viola, fuel savings......
That's not really an option: you can't fit these LED Compatible Flashers, because the socket doesn't allow it. Unlike a H4 bulb, which has it connection to the outside.

So with H4 bulbs you could do this, but not with these small P21 bulbs. Unless you mess up with the wiring, which I don't find a good idea. But yes no energy saving at all by replacing the indicators by LED.

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I also ordered these: LED indicators replacement units, for the side indicators. Just not sure if I'm going place them, because I might have a second thought about these.

For the LED indicator bulbs: I'm doing it, because I might like the LED light more. Because the light colour looks more modern.

And I wanna just try it out, even if I might decide to remove them later. The headlight and taillights definitely going stay though, as I'm very satisfied about those.
 

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LED compatible flasher units are available in the generic pin configurations, being 3, 4 and 5 pin.
3 pin being most common as I just bought one for my motorbike because I fitted led flashers to that because the vibration keeps killing the incandescents. Cost me about $15 retail
And what's better, it also works on incandescent up to 150W and as low as 0.1 W

Same unit in my 2015 gv.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
LED compatible flasher units are available in the generic pin configurations, being 3, 4 and 5 pin.
3 pin being most common as I just bought one for my motorbike because I fitted led flashers to that because the vibration keeps killing the incandescents. Cost me about $15 retail
And what's better, it also works on incandescent up to 150W and as low as 0.1 W

Same unit in my 2015 gv.
I think you might miss understand me: in order to fit any of these LED Compatible Flashers, I searched them yesterday. They come in two kinds, one is a fuse where you can turn the setting.

So in order to fit these with the indicators, I would have to tap into the wires. Meaning damage them and that's something non reversible. That's why I looked for LED indicator bulbs, that have resistors built-in.

The good thing with Suzuki is: they don't use CANBUS, so fitting retrofitting LED lights is quite straightforward. Many German cars would give an error in the dashboard, once you fit any LED bulb into a socket meant for incandescent bulbs.
 

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I think you might miss understand me: in order to fit any of these LED Compatible Flashers, I searched them yesterday. They come in two kinds, one is a fuse where you can turn the setting.

So in order to fit these with the indicators, I would have to tap into the wires. Meaning damage them and that's something non reversible. That's why I looked for LED indicator bulbs, that have resistors built-in.

The good thing with Suzuki is: they don't use CANBUS, so fitting retrofitting LED lights is quite straightforward. Many German cars would give an error in the dashboard, once you fit any LED bulb into a socket meant for incandescent bulbs.
Remove flasher relay, plug in one of these.

Then fit led lamps in place of existing incandescent lamps

Unless yours are bcm controlled then it shouldn't matter and they probably won't hyperflash
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Remove flasher relay, plug in one of these.

Then fit led lamps in place of existing incandescent lamps

Unless yours are bcm controlled then it shouldn't matter and they probably won't hyperflash
Okay but where would this so called Relay located? In the fuse box? If it would be that easy, than it would be worth trying out.

But indicator lights are used for just a very small amount of time, so it wouldn't have a big impact on the fuel consumption. Just I think these built-in resistors are the cause, that these LED bulbs get so hot.

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I found these as well: adjustable LED flasher relay. But it's very interesting indeed, that way you could fit the ones from Osram as well for example.
 

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Depends on the model, most flasher relays are up by the internal fuse box
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Depends on the model, most flasher relays are up by the internal fuse box
The flasher relay you shared: how does it work? Most LED bulbs use between 1watt and 5watt, so that one you shared: is suitable for most LED flash lights?

Because if that's the case: I'm going research some more about it. There is a lot of data available in Sergiu Gabor testing, so if a flasher relay would take care of the hyperflashing. And canbus isn't a issue anyway with Suzuki car's, than another bulb which has decent light output would be suitable as well.
 

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And canbus isn't a issue anyway with Suzuki car's
I'm not all together sure of that. Maybe a bit broad stated.
In my SX4 S-Cross the DRL turns on automatically and so far no relay to be found/heard. The diagrams I found on the net (though not exactly matching my VIN) points them always connected to the EDR.
So not guaranteed CAN bus connected, but it kept me from forking off the DRL cable towards the DRL bulbs in the extra headlights.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'm not all together sure of that. Maybe a bit broad stated.
In my SX4 S-Cross the DRL turns on automatically and so far no relay to be found/heard. The diagrams I found on the net (though not exactly matching my VIN) points them always connected to the EDR.
So not guaranteed CAN bus connected, but it kept me from forking off the DRL cable towards the DRL bulbs in the extra headlights.
Ah okay: I got a Suzuki Celerio 2015 model, but it's the same as the last ones they sold in 2020 before Suzuki decided to discontinue it. I also have DRL, but they are already LED. So no need to retrofit them.

I simply don't wanna tap into any wire, because it's risky. So the LED flasher relay would be a good solution, if my car indeed has it. But for now I'm going stick with the bulbs I ordered.

Because I'm not willing to pay € 20 for a pair of Chinese LED indicator bulbs: many are between € 15 and € 20 for a pair and I would need two pairs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)

LED J indicator bulbs from Sergui Gabor test: they are way to bright, at 1 meter I measured 277lux. So will be taking them out very soon again.

I think my measurement was wrong: because I did it again, but this time at 1.5 metre. The same distance Sergiu Gabor did.

It's 130Lux that's a little bit more than the 109Lux, that the incandescent bulb in Sergiu Gabor test got. But my incandescent bulb only measured 50lux, when I measured it last week at 1.5m.

I'm not sure why my incandescent bulbs only measured 50lux, whereas Sergiu Gabor measured 109lux. Could it be mine where quite dim in the first place?

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I received the Nao T10 LED bulbs as well: actually these looks quite promising, and are just € 3,50 a pair. Might install them perhaps tomorrow, or another time.

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And the MaxGTRS reverse bulbs are also really promising, I tried them shortly at home. It lit up the living room quite much.

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This kind of bulb, uses a magnifying glass to focus the light. I guess they would also be a good fit for rear fog light.

I have taken the indicator bulbs out again: it's not my purpose to blond others, but simply retrofit bulbs. That has been successful for many bulbs now, expect the indicator bulbs....

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I placed the NAO T10 bulbs this morning in my license plate light: I'm satisfied about these, just not sure how long they going last. But it will help saving a little fuel, as these bulbs only use 0.5w of electricity.

Replacing these T10 bulbs was a little difficult: there is really not much space, so forgot about using a cloth in order to avoid fingerprints on the bulb. Because it would be impossible to get them fitted: but these from NAO fit well, and don't break the bank.
 
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