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Hi everyone I'm only new to the site and new to suzukis...I have had my sierra classic (1994) for 1 year now and it has developed a very noisy knock/rattle near the rear of the engine...I have spoken to local mechanics and have since had the gearbox reco'd and the clutch replaced....Now it appears the noise is louder and only when in gear and during acceleration.....any help would be appreciated thankyou....:confused:
 

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I posted about a knock I had in ours to a thread ( http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-jimny-sierra-samurai-forum/28536-engine-knock.html ) started by muddysj. Mine sounded like it was coming from the rear of the engine too, although before I started listening carefully, I replaced the water pump, timing belt, and fixed a broken bracket for the alternator.

I put in a can of STP and the knock is gone unless the revs get pretty high. So I think squid's suggestion that it was piston slap was probably correct.

Phil
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks

Thanks for the tip ...... Is the STP a higher grade of oil,,,I haven't seen it around here but will look on the w/end and get back to you......
 

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It's an oil additive that increases the viscosity (thickness) of the oil. Been around for many decades. I actually used another brand (Bardahl) that was on the shelf above the STP and is functionally the same thing ... honey-like consistancy. The Bardahl brand mentioned "stops smoking from valve seals" which I suspected was a problem with ours. The smoking mostly stopped, the knocking mostly stopped, and it was all of a $3 "fix".

The container said to use 1/2 for a 4 cylinder engine. I did and although less, the knock was still there. I dumped in the rest of the bottle and after some engine run time, the noise almost disappeared and it no longer smokes the entire time we have it running... still smokes at startup.

Of course, nothing is actually "fixed", only they symptoms are masked. Someday I may get enough time and ambition to do a quick in-frame overhaul of the 1.3L.

Phil
 

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Discussion Starter #5
thanks again

thanks again for the tips will search out prodicts this w/end and trial them..appreciate all the help ...let you know the results in a few days on this post:)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
oil additive

managed to d an oil additive like the one you spoke of and put it in on the w/end..seems to have quietened down the engine but the existing noise now seems clearer and louder.. this is confusing to me and it looks as though more examination is in order..the noise is only when in gear and under load from the engine......thanks for all the help, will continue to try new ideas.....:huh:
 

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managed to d an oil additive like the one you spoke of and put it in on the w/end..seems to have quietened down the engine but the existing noise now seems clearer and louder.. this is confusing to me and it looks as though more examination is in order..the noise is only when in gear and under load from the engine......thanks for all the help, will continue to try new ideas.....:huh:
No offense to the suggest from Phil. (Sorry if I do step on a toe here but just like to share my personal experience)

I've also tried using STP and other brands of oil additives when I bought a used Jimny SJ410 back in 2007. Didn't have any knock/rattle on my engine but the white smokes was bad enough to give anyone a bad day. Same old story, tried out a cheap treatment. After a couple of months using such additives (STP and Cyclo Smoke Treatment) my engine internals were clogged up with what looks like a heavy sludge, guess what, problem still remains. Spent a small fortune to overhaul and replacing various parts. (Not to mention a long lecture from the mechanic telling me never to use that stuff again....guess he didn't want to make too much money from fixing my car again)

After that I did some look up on the net and found some interesting articles. You could have a look at

FTC Sues Speedway Motorsports and Oil-Chem Subsidiary
STP Corporation, and its Parent Corporation, First Brands Corporation, Pay $888,000 Civil Penalty to Settle FTC Charges...

Well, guess I've learnt my lesson. About your knock/rattle issue, perhaps you might want to get a closer look to make sure nothing is loose, cracked or worst around the rear of the engine. If you could be a little more descriptive, perhaps we could try and look into this further.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
more info

interesting ponts you make....the rattle i speak of comes in only when the car is in gear and under acceleration.. when idling there is no noise.. as i am in the car when this happens i can only hear from the inside but it does seem to come from around the gearstick area...have had the clutch replaced and the gearbox reco'd....it sounds very metallic moreso than anything else but it is also similar to a diesel engine rattle that is so common....could be timing ??????? there is no oil leaks or loose parts that i can identify externally.......still left confused???????????:huh:
 

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Hi Muller, This gonna be tough if you're driving and trying to figure out where the sound is coming from. Especially in the under carriage, not to mention the Zuk being relatively small its gonna be hard figuring out if the sound is really coming from the front, mid or rear section. Anyway, lets try to narrow things down a little shall we?

Try checking all the Cross Joints on the both Front and Rear Prop Shafts? It could be slightly worn and causing the rattle when the vehicle is moving. Change it before it gets worst or someday you'll be driving and it suddenyl feels like the whole Jeep is gonna fall apart (Knocking, Rattling and Vibrating)...Learnt my lesson the hard way...again.

Alternatively before going back to the mechanic, do a quick self test. Try accelerating and switch to neutral while letting the Zuk roll. (Turn off the radio, air-con, windows closed ,keep your co-pilot quiet and take your foot off the gas pedal...hehehe, Need maximum silence when you do this). Best do this going down hill to maintain speed in neutral.

a) Listen carefully, If the Konck/Rattle still persists, it's likely the cross joint, something lose or broken component mountings in the engine bay or undercarriage. It's gonna be hard to identify this unless you get a close look, getting under the vehicle or even to the point of taking certain components apart. By the way, just to be sure, make sure your battery is secured tightly too....you never know.

b) If the knock/rattle is gone while just rolling on neutral, then could be problem in the Transfer box or Gearbox. Suggest you find another mechanic that specialize in Suzuki Sierras, Jeeps, or at least off road vehicles.

c) Stop the Zuk, open the engine hood. (park somewhere safe for this please, not in the middle of the road on a downhill slope...haha). Step on the gas and rev it up between 2500~3000 rpm and keep it there for a couple of seconds, does the knocking and rattle persist? If it does, then have a mechanic check your engine.

Unless you engine is in REALLY bad shape, I doubt the Piston, valve or other moving parts inside the engine would be making that kind of knock/rattle. If it is indeed in bad shape, my suggestion would be to do a overhaul rather than using any oil additives. (Pay Now or Pay Much More Later...)

Last but not least, is your Zuk is running on the original Sierra engine or has it been replaced with something more powerful/up to date? Make sure you're using the right octane petrol....dumb question, but just checking anyway.

Well, hopefully this helps to narrow things down so you can get to the right mechanic for the job. Good luck.
 

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Forgot to ask, when was the last time you or the previous owner changed the transmission, transfer and differential oil?

Have you also check the Exhaust Pipes/Heat Shield/Clamps? One of those could be lose.
 

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No offense to the suggest from Phil. (Sorry if I do step on a toe here but just like to share my personal experience)
No offense taken. I think I mentioned that I haven't used anything like STP for maybe 40 years... but having found and fixed numerous little external things that could/should have been making noise, I'd found myself with no more possibilities other than something internal. Another poster mentioned piston slap. The goo cut the noise by 90%, reinforcing that theory. I can still get the noise by using a higher RPM, but for our low speed driving the Zuki is now VERY quiet... prob'ly more so because of the other rattles I'd found and fixed.

Also in the past few months I've been paying attention to other Samurais and Trackers on the road and exhaust smoke seems to be more the rule than not. Ours used to leave a visible plume behind us but that's pretty much stopped too, except for initial startup.

I won't fret about sludging the engine. This may seem like an odd combination but the oil I added the thickener to is synthetic, which should prevent sludge. When I eventually change it I'll go to a thicker weight and try skipping any additives.

So for muller, DANG! But at least it was a cheap try.

Phil
 

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Hi Phils, Well, I guess we learn something new everyday. Where I come from, we 'd never use Synthetic Oils in the Stock Zuk Engines. Other than costs, it's too thin and wouldn't really serve its purpose well on the old engine block. Normally, we'd use mineral based 15~20W50 or in the best scenario, 10W40. I must admit I've never considered nor experienced mixing the additive to synthetic, so for this I guess its a trial and error thing. But thanks for your follow-up comments, it's nice to be able to exchange ideas rather "flaming each other ????" (hope i got the term right)
 

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Hi Phils, Well, I guess we learn something new everyday. Where I come from, we 'd never use Synthetic Oils in the Stock Zuk Engines. Other than costs, it's too thin and wouldn't really serve its purpose well on the old engine block. Normally, we'd use mineral based 15~20W50 or in the best scenario, 10W40. I must admit I've never considered nor experienced mixing the additive to synthetic, so for this I guess its a trial and error thing. But thanks for your follow-up comments, it's nice to be able to exchange ideas rather "flaming each other ????" (hope i got the term right)
I first started using synthetics in 1977, have used them exclusively since about 1980, and could write a short book on the benefits I've experienced. I've got cars and trucks and a little tractor and a bunch of gas powered tools and EVERYTHING gets syn. So I keep a stock of different oils on hand and changed out the Zuki as soon as I bought it with what I had 'extra' of.... I think it might have been 15W-30 or 40 but can't really remember (could've been 10-30 even, I save the 5W20 for one particular car). I have one pickup that uses 20-50 syn racing oil (pulls a heavy trailer) and may put that in the Sam next time around (or buy straight 40 or 50 wt).

So there was no "plan" to add goo to the oil (it was actually rather difficult for me to add ANYTHING to my valued synthetics). But doing it DID narrow the problem down to engine internals. Since I bought the Sammy knowing there was an engine noise (that the seller couldn't get it to make when I was buying) and there was dino oil in it, I doubt it made any difference not using dino at the oil change.

Of course, it'll probably be a long time until it gets changed (as long as the knock stays gone). You'd have to have read way back in my posts to know that this Sam will never see the street again. I've removed doors, roof, targa bar, windshield, license plates, sway bar, and anything else not necessary. We just use it to cruise our mile of trails through the woods (wanted a John Deer Gator but those things are over $10K!). I DID leave the roll bar on... this is a Suzuki Samurai, after all ;)

BTW I just yesterday got a rear seat for $50 delivered to my office. The guy I bought the car from had it offered to him, and he in turn offered it to me and I've heard they are hard to find (but I hadn't tried). Is that an ok deal? It's in need of a little work.

I've attached a photo of one of the tougher parts of a trail we took last weekend... took my little tractor to pull it out. Normally we get no rain so this doesn't happen often.

Phil
 

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Hi Phils, its hard to compare prices with me being in Indonesia and you at CA (California I assume?) Over here in Indonesia, spare parts both new/used are still easily available. Haven't got the updated price but I'd say 50 bucks and having it delivered to your place is a good deal.

I got mine free from a buddy who just ripped the rear seat off his Jimny to fit in his new audio system.
 

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Hi Muller do you know if they changed the Spigot Bearing when they done the Clutch and G/Box thats the bearing that the front shaft of the gearboxs locates into normal in the back of the crankshaft or sometimes in the flywheel when they fale they make some horrible noises you'll have to get the gearbox and clutch removed again but thats all it might be I,m a Diesel Mechanic from the Gold Coast and thats quite common for the trucks to get a noise in them only under load hopefully this helps
 

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Discussion Starter #17
thanks frothe tip but yes they did change the spigot bearing .Still exploring in hope of finding this elusive noise, hopefully it will all come clear soon.....
 
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