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1996 Suzuki Sidekick JX Sport 4WD Man 1.8L L4 DOHC 16V vin: JS3TD21V6T4105***
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Discussion Starter #1
All this past summer I just went through, w/my '96 Sidekick Sport 1.8, an issue with the car throwing codes P0102 & P0103 accompanied (first) by P0400, for which I did a thorough cleaning of the EGR (which it REALLY needed), and thought problem was resolved. Then within weeks the same P0102 & P0103 codes accompanied by P0122, and found my TP sensor was cracked and I got another one, installed, calibrated, and all was good for a few weeks until a couple days ago. Now I have the same 2 first codes, with P0136, AND the heavy smell of gas when starting and taking off. I just have the feeling that a circuit short is moving through the wiring harnesses, but I don't even know if that's a thing. I did recently have the muffler system replaced and wonder if they did some butchery at the catalytic converter where the 2nd O2 sensor is. Any thoughts?
 

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What does w/pd mean?

Why should a muffler replacement involve any butchery at the catalytic converter - you unbolt the muffler at the flange and bolt a new one on - OR - you can cut the old muffler out and weld the new one in - neither task requires you to touch the catalytic converter or the oxygen sensor.

Short circuits generally don't move - having said that - a short circuit is a term that is widely misunderstood/misused by people who don't understand what it is. To a technical person tasked with solving the problem, there are few things more frustrating than being told that a circuit has a short - a short circuit is a very specific fault and I'd estimate that more than 90% of the time, there is no short circuit at all, the problem is more likely to be a poor connection causing an intermittent open circuit.

P102 & 103 codes are related to the MAF or Mass Air Flow sensor, a P0136 is related to an O2 sensor circuit fault - I've seen occasions when a MAF sensor issue causes the engine to run very rich which might account for the "heavy smell of gas".
 

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1996 Suzuki Sidekick JX Sport 4WD Man 1.8L L4 DOHC 16V vin: JS3TD21V6T4105***
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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks fordem - not trying to frustrate anyone. On the OBD II, there was a "p" and a "d" near the arrow on the right side, which likely meant "page down?" Not sure, but didn't mean to include that in title. When I researched the code P0136 online, possible causes were listed as: malfunctioning O2 sensor; malfunctioning O2 sensor circuit (open, short, or high resistance); leak in exhaust system; corroded O2 sensor; faulty PCM. I've had Midas under there replacing THREE muffler systems over the course of the last year, because they kept messing things up as there were leaks and vibrating problems. Also at the beginning of that debacle they said they would install the O2 sensor I had just gotten new (which was the #1 sensor up by the engine) but they thought it was the 2nd one by the CC, and had removed my driver's seat to install it before realizing it wasn't the #2 sensor, and had to put everything back together....so my suspicion's about their shabby work is why I refer to butchery in that area. And I DON'T understand shorts, which is why I wondered if it's even a thing, I wasn't telling anyone that it IS a short. I just keep chasing a problem it seems, that is down the line from the last problem, and I don't know why. With each of these problems, the MAF codes are there (even thought the MAF is new), but they go away with the fix of the first O2 sensor, or the EGR, or the Idle Control. They are always 2 accompanying codes to a third that seems to be the problem, and when the 3rd code is fixed, they go away as well. Maybe the new MAF sensor is faulty?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
And could "a poor connection causing an intermittent open circuit" be something as simple as a harness not being securely connected?
 

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And could "a poor connection causing an intermittent open circuit" be something as simple as a harness not being securely connected?
That is a VERY frequent cause - many electrical connectors are designed to be "self wiping" - removing & reconnecting each connector can improve the connection.

Regarding the exhaust system issues - Midas sounds like the wrong place to be taking the car - why would anyone be removing the driver's seat to work on an exhaust system?

Try to get your hands on the service manuals that are specific to your vehicle, I know they are not easy to find, but they do show up from time to time on ebay - you'll need to look for the SV418 manuals and/or supplements - in the mean time, go to the second gen section of the forum and look at the very top for Max's information sticky, he has links to the service manual set for the second gen cars, the SQ416/420/625 manual set - the J18 is a short stroke version of the J20 so a lot of the detail is relevant.

Suzuki provides trouble shooting steps for each of the codes and that can be different for the different brands of vehicle so the closer you can get to what you are working on the better positioned you'll be.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Midas removed my seat, they claim, because that's how they get to the second O2 sensor in front of the Cat Conv, which they offered to install for me, but they didn't know it was the 1st O2 sensor up by the engine. Believe me I'm sorry I went to them (Suzuki dealer told me that was my best bet).
 

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The second O2 sensor on that car is literally under the driver's seat, but, it's also under the floor, so unless they were planning on cutting a hole in the floor, there would have been no reason to even touch the driver's seat, apart from sitting in it to drive the car into the shop and put it on the hoist.

This by the way, will probably hold true for 99% of the vehicles ever made - the downstream O2 sensor will almost always be somewhere under the floor and accessible from under the vehicle.
 
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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
:rolleyes: These guys are really hopeless. I didn't know, but I wondered HOW were they getting to something UNDER the car, from inside the car. I just figured there was something I didn't know. I should check to make sure they didn't cut a hole in the floor. BTW, I unplugged every harness to everything I had worked on, EGR, Idle Control, MAF, etc, probed with a wired to make sure was good metal contacts, and reconnected. Unplugged battery for 15 mins., reconnected, and used the car. No more gas smell, no more codes. Seems good for now. But "for now" is the key words here.
 

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:rolleyes: These guys are really hopeless. I didn't know, but I wondered HOW were they getting to something UNDER the car, from inside the car. I just figured there was something I didn't know. I should check to make sure they didn't cut a hole in the floor.
If they did they had better pay for fixing it
 
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Getting back to your original problem, having a P0102 and a P0103 is somewhat confusing. One is for the MAF circuit voltage low, and the p0103 is for the MAF circuit voltage high. The P0136 is for the downstream O2 ‘circuit malfunction’. Each of these seems to point toward a wiring issue.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Getting back to your original problem, having a P0102 and a P0103 is somewhat confusing. One is for the MAF circuit voltage low, and the p0103 is for the MAF circuit voltage high. The P0136 is for the downstream O2 ‘circuit malfunction’. Each of these seems to point toward a wiring issue.
I most definitely have wiring issues. They typically take a circuitous route around my lights and for several years it was a specific pattern of bulb blowouts that I just kept following and replacing bulbs. And now it seems like the wiring issues have found their way inside the engine. I have taken the car to multiple mechanics to ask what they think of this, and no one gets it, or can suggest what it is. One mechanic tried and just cut all my security alarm wires, believing that was the problem, my security alarm. :rolleyes: That didn't solve anything. When a transmission shop went in and replaced my clutch lever, the day I retrieved the car from them all kinds of crazy wiring things happened, the most bizarre was when I turned on the car after parking it, all my lights and dome, radio, wipers, etc came on with the engine starting, and when I freaked and turned the key off and removed it the lights and radio stayed on. Not the wipers though. I restarted the car and everything went off (mind you I didn't touch one single thing to turn anything on or off except my key ignition), and everything went back off and the car performed normally. I took it back to transmission shop to ask if they hooked everything back up correctly and told them what happened. The took a look, said they couldn't find anything unusual, and that it was all hooked up correctly. Ever since then (it seems) I've had CEL codes which started the line of sensors along the throttle body about which I posted above.
 

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This probably won't help so take with grain of salt.
Usually when there are circuit problems, I look for a common issue.
Don't know if there is a common issue here. Other than it seems to be in the wiring.
If this were a Chrysler then it would be the TIPM or totally integrated power module.
Fuse box to you and me. They had lots of issues with the TIPM causing weird things to fail.

Anyway, I would do an inspection of the wiring looms.
Any place it goes where there would be metal rubbing against it
Or anything with heat and/or vibration against the wiring loom
Look for green crusty.
 

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The best I can offer is this:
If you look at chapter 8, it is the electrical diagrams, much of which will be similar to your car. Sadly, while the diagrams show the wiring colors, it doesn’t really show their location as they weave through the dash, engine, etc., or the location of the splices and connectors. Page 8 of the diagrams show the MAF sensor.
And post #3 here gives an idea of how to test the wiring:
Sadly, it would appear that you may have to follow the individual wires to find where the problems with them are, try to reconnect the connectors to see if that helps, etc.
 
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