[techfella]

More problems than I can handle

First let me say I wish I had never bought this damn car. I live in Chicago and have the worst time finding parts or service centers for my 04 Verona. Back in March I posted some O2 sensor questions and thanks to a few great posters I managed to order and replace two of the four with little trouble. But now it seems the problem is back and I also have issues with the "injector harness". The car running running rough at idle and acceleration speeds. I took it to the dealer and got a laundry list of needed repairs to the turn of $1300+. I'm sick to my stomach about all the problems and the extended warranttee I have is only covering the injector harness ($300). I think the dealer is jerking me a bit because they didn't want to deal with the warrantee company until I persisted. Other evidence is the ABS light is on and my code scanner says it's a wheel speed sensor, yet the dealer says nothing came up on the diagnostics. Then why is the ABS light on? Plus the wheels make a hoorible screetching noice at very low speeds. It's not the brakes because I had rebestos pads put on in June.

Anyway, I'm posting the list of repairs in hopes someone sees it and can offer some advice on what I can do myself vs. recommending the dealer do it. Bottom line is I don't have $1000 to pay for the repairs.

Injector wiring harness (thats being fixed under warrentee) $300
Vacume canister ($149)
Intake solenoid ?($51)
O2 sensors ($150 ea.)
Wheel senors (4) I have no idea which one(s) are faulty because the dealer said nothing is coming up on the diag.
:huh:

Also are all the trouble code I got
P1382
P0305
P0306
P0032
P1443

 

[Max]

Dang Tech, you sound pretty bummed out.

How about another dealer in the area? Worth a try for some honest answers and warranty coverage maybe?

You've got a handle on the O2 sensors from before.

On those codes...I assume that you've already broken them all down. If not, let me know which one (one's) are still not ID'd, and I'll try and figure them out.

I don't like the sounds (literally) of the ABS / brake system. That needs priority attention, as I'm sure you feel the same way. Double check the caliper pistons, pads and rotors, even though recently installed w/new pads. Something is foul there.

We're here for ya! Hang in there and take it one problem at a time.

 

[techfella]

O2 sensors

Thanks again for responding. Going to another dealer is the plan when I get the car back next week. I'm letting them fix the injector harness becuase the car is there already and it's covered by the warranttee.

Check this out, the service guy says ALL the O2 sensors are the wrong kind. If you remember I only replaced the two before the cat converter (which I did not tell him) but he insist all are the incorrect parts. I bought the car new so the parts I didn't replace should be OEM. Thats another reason I think their jerkin my chain. However, I am wondering if the Bosch universal O2 sensors I bought were incompatible? Can you point me to a place to buy OEM parts? I'm having a hard time finding things for the car.
Anyway here's the code breakdown from Alldatadyi.com

DTC P0031 Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Bank 1 Heater Low Voltage
DTC P1382 Wheel Speed Sensor Malfunction (dealer said nothing came up on this, but I found it in my test)
DTC P0305 Cylinder 5 Misfire Detected
DTC P0306 Cylinder 6 Misfire Detected
DTC P1443 Evaporative Emission System Purge Control Valve Malfunction (stuck in Open Position) I wonder is this the "intake solenoid" he referred to?

 

[Max]

I bought some axle seals from this dealer...Suzuki Depot / Tom's Truck Parts, out of Calif. 1-800-238-9308.

SUZUKICARPARTS.COM - Order Parts Parts:Largest Inventory of New Suzuki Parts in the USA!

Did that, rather than hassle w/the local dealer / trip.

On the O2's not being the correct ones per the dealer...not sure how he came up w/that. Part # or visual ID? FWIW, I believe those area OEM sensors are the same except for the wiring portion (diff lengths on my V-6 for instance) thus diff part #'s.

 

[techfella]

Parts

Thanks for the parts lead, them seem to have everything I need. As to the O2 sensor thing, the service manager did a visual ID and said they were the wrong ones because I did have to crimp the original plugs on the new ones. But again I only replaced two of the four so he's still right. Anyway, I'm just waiting for them to finish the harness repair, should get the car back next Tues or Wed. I'll keep you posted.

 

[techfella]

Got it back, but not fixed

If this were a horse I could just shoot it and be done with this nightmare. I picked up my car yesterday and it runs as bad as before. They replaced the harness? a PVC valve and a rubber hose. During the inspection and diagnosis part the service manager tells me there is a major problem with the "short block" they run a compression test and it shows 160psi on cylinder #4. What any of this means if greek to me. He said "IF" Suzuki approves it under warrentee I get a new engine. However, the word is they want 10 oil change reciepts showing I did my part in maintaining the car before they would even break the engine down for a further inspection. The dealer I bought the car from went belly up 18-24 months ago no one seems to have the old service records. Occording to Suzuki the dealers don't not transmit that data to them. Besides, on at least three occassions I changed to oil myself (I'm old school). Anyway, I feel like I'm about to be let out in the cold here. I am taking to another dealer next week because I got horrible service at this last one. The service manager was a real a-hole. More on the saga later.

 

[Max]

A compression test uses the starter to turn the engine over and measure how much cylinder pressure can be achieved in several cranking revolutions. Low numbers indicate leaking past either piston rings or valves.

Did they give the figures for the other cylinders? 160 psi isn't a necessarily low figure. It's a matter of the pressure relationship between ALL cylinders. Meaning, if one tests 160 and the REST are 180-200 or something, that one out of spec (low) cylinder has issues or possibly a testing procedure malady. But if ALL of the cylinders are pretty close in pressure across the board, I wouldn't put all my faith in that one test only. A LEAK DOWN test, once again performed to each cylinder, is the most precise, as opposed to a COMPRESSION test.

Yeah, you need a 2nd opinion.

Are you getting any codes now? If running that badly, the ECU should throw a mis-fire code in that cylinder at LEAST!

 

[techfella]

Only results from one cylinder given

A compression test uses the starter to turn the engine over and measure how much cylinder pressure can be achieved in several cranking revolutions. Low numbers indicate leaking past either piston rings or valves.

Did they give the figures for the other cylinders? 160 psi isn't a necessarily low figure. It's a matter of the pressure relationship between ALL cylinders. Meaning, if one tests 160 and the REST are 180-200 or something, that one out of spec (low) cylinder has issues or possibly a testing procedure malady. But if the ALL of the cylinders are pretty close in pressure across the board, I wouldn't put all my faith in that one test only. A LEAK DOWN test, once again performed to each cylinder, is the most precise, as opposed to a COMPRESSION test.

Yeah, you need a 2nd opinion.

Are you getting any codes now? If running that badly, the ECU should throw a mis-fire code in that cylinder at LEAST!

They only wrote the results from cylender 4 on my paperwork. I don't know what the rest read. I did not get any codes when I ran my scanner but the engine light is still on and flashes under excelleration (like from a standing stop to driving speed). I supect they cleared the ECU before I picked it up. I will run a test later today.

Here's something I'm worried about. The service manager said this might be covered under the drive train warrenttee but I cannot produce the 10 oil change reciepts. If they break down the engine and try to say I did not do the proper owner matenance I'm screwed on the cost of the internal inspection. Any thoughts on how this might go?

 

[Max]

I'd still ask for (and like to see) those compression numbers.

**************************************************

On the oil changes...plead your case to some HOPEFULLY sympathetic / understanding ears that YOU performed the maintenace, is all I can suggest. Then cross your fingers.

MAYBE they will agree (up front) to pick up the cost if once into the "open and inspect" phase, they find no signs of a lack of oil change mainenance leading to the problem. (no dirt / debis, sludge, etc, suggesting poor maintenance)

On the other hand...IF the loss of compression is due to VALVES leaking by...oil change frequency is mostly a moot point. Top end problems (as in valve probs) are typically caused from valve lash, engine overheating, over-reving, fuel and ignition timing problems.

 

[techfella]

I should be OK on the oil change part. I changed mine more frequently than the recommended 6000 miles, my rule has always been 3000. I use Pensoil mostly and STP filters. Let's hope that took good care of the engine.

 

[tiogaglide]

Great photo I was looking for hours trying to find out which oxy sensor was bank1sensor1 How did you take the photo? Any ideas on changing the driver side 1 sensor?My hand bary fits back there.The other side would be easyer.It does not have that black box with cable coming out of it,hanging off the end of the head.would you know what that is I was thinking of remoing it to get at sensor.Your photo shows it with a white spot in the middle.The connecter is really in a tight space also.

 

[Max]

black box with cable coming out of it,hanging off the end of the head.would you know what that is I was thinking of remoing it to get at sensor.Your photo shows it with a white spot in the middle.

It's the CMP (timing) Sensor. If you mess w/it, there goes your timing. You'd have to reset it. I'm not sure how it pulls off and re-attaches either.

How did you take the photo?

Spare engine in the shop.

Any ideas on changing the driver side 1 sensor?

I did everything on mine from UNDER the vehicle using that style ratchet and socket I pictured.

The connecter is really in a tight space also.

Tell me about it. One of the guys here reached in from the TOP of the engine to get to his FWIW. It may have been on the other side though.

 

[rsisk]

This comment is to Max. Let me see if I understand looking at the back of the engine,which you have pictured, the left bank sensor 1 is on top and sensor 2 is bottom left. Right bank or side of engine in picture would be same sensor 1 on top sensor 2 bottom. Is that correct? I am in the process of changing one of the sensors and do agree about the connector issue, it is a pain. Your pictures are excellent.... Thanks

 

[Scorch]

Yep! I think you've got it, but to make sure...

The one boxed is Bank 2, Sensor 1. Next to it on the left is Bank 1, Sensor 1. Now, directly below and after the cat converter (but not pictured) are a 2nd set, bank 1 & 2 sensors #2.

Let us know how it goes. Glad I could help.

Max

I first visited this forum three or four years ago but cannot remember my username, so I had to join again. I always liked reading the stuff here. Thanks a million for the picture showing the O2 sensors. My Check Engine light has been on about a year. I live in Houston, and my car failed the emmissions inspection today. The printout says Fault Codes: P0031 HO2S Heater Control Circuit Low Bank 1 Sensor 1

I suppose that means the one in the picture, opposite the boxed sensor? Do you have a part number or can you suggest where I can order a generic (cheap!) sensor? I found this vendor from your post: http://oxygensensors.com/catalog.php...8217#Location0

I hope the Walker 250-24400 for $49.90 will work. Where did your get the sensor socket? Thanks!

It is for an '03 XL-7.

thanks!
Scorch

 

[Scorch]

You've got it right Scorch!

I'd suggest RockAuto...

2003 SUZUKI XL-7 Oxygen Sensor

Welcome back too!

Oh! If you want to go OE parts. You've got a great price discounting DEALER in Texas as well!
OEM Suzuki Parts

Oxygen sensor, xl-7, front 01-06 $151.20
Electrical - Powertrain control - Oxygen sensor

IF you go generic, you'll have to splice into your wiring UNLESS you find a generic w/the plug on it already. I have seen them before. Going with OE's sensors and you'll have a PLUG on the end to connect for sure that's a pain in the ass (that's another story that you already have read about). Splicing generics is no walk in the park either, ESPECIALLY the first one like is shot on your Zuki.

Wow, that was fast! I was just cleaning up the post, I found a similar post by you in the XL-7 forum. Thanks, and where did you get the socket wrench, sir?

Other than this sensor, my XL-7 has been completely trouble free, and I have 123,000 miles on it.

Scorch

 

[Max]

That socket wrench actually came from Wally World, and the socket from Snap-on. Talk about one extreme to the other, vendor wise!

That flex head ratchet is manufactured from several tool companies. That one was a Popular Mechanics brand.

 

[Scorch]

That socket wrench actually came from Wally World, and the socket from Snap-on. Talk about one extreme to the other, vendor wise!

That flex head ratchet is manufactured from several tool companies. That one was a Popular Mechanics brand.

Ok, so the 22mm socket from Snap-on, great, and the BOSCH Part # 15730 {Oxygen Sensor - Universal Type - Upstream Sensor}
4 Wire; Heated; Check / Replace Interval: 100,000 Miles sensor from RockAuto.

You have been a great help, mate.

Scorch

 

[[email protected]]

2001 XL7 O2 Sensors

This is my first interaction to this thread so I hope this goes to Max. If it doesn't pls someone send it to him. Max has done a great job of displaying the little Suzuki V6. His picture of the rear of the engine might just allow me to fix my O2 sensor problem. The pictures are worth a lot to me and I suspect a lot of other Fix-It-Yourself guys who do this to save money and secondly just to know more about the car for future problems. GOOD WORK MAX,,,

 

[Scorch]

Yep, many thanks to Max for going the extra mile. That's what really makes the Internet shine, you can find good info on just about anything these days.

My sensor should be here tomorrow. I will remove the old one and cut the plug off of it and connect it to the new plug.

 

[Scorch]

Mission accomplished. :57:

It wasn't easy but I was able to get at the wiring plug and O2 sensor today. I put together a guide, hope this helps other Suzuki owners. Special thanks to Max!


O2 Sensor replacement guide



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