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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,
if you own the CVT transmission can you please let me know:
1 How reliable is it?
2 Consumption on AVG?
3 Performance and driving experince?

THank you :)
 

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Regarding the Constant Variable transmission in the 2018 Ignis I have... Over the 25,000km so far, no issues whatsoever. When I want extra nifty acceleration, or a better run up a hill, the 'Sport' button is handy. It delivers a lower ratio, and delays the change-up. Consumption, using 98 RON averages 4.5 - 4.8 litres per 100 km. I use the higher octane because of the 12.5:1 compression ratio. Holding up to 5000rpm, performance is on par with all but the most dedicated, egocentric lead-foots around. The electronics that the system has, when the pedal is lifted, will go to optimistic higher ratios, as soon as it senses more vacuum and less torque load. Just something to become accustomed to...along with the moaning up to speed, rather than the snappy rise and fall in revs of a manual clutch and box. When waiting at traffic lights, popping into neutral seems an intelligent option, rather than the incessant creep. Overall, better than I expected, although still fairly low kms. Intending to change the (expensive) fluid fairly soon, mainly to see how it looks! Humbly, I'd suggest the CVT is great for transport, however lacking in connection and character.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Keep us posted! Anyhow in the service manual is not mentioned any change of fluid. Only check of level...is this change really necessary? Normally these are transmission sealed, with no necessity to change the fluid.
 

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I wouldn't recommend a fluid change, CVT's are notoriously picky on correct oils and this is best left to a dealer

remember its a normal automatic box with a torque converter but with a variable speed drive between the converter and the main gearbox. Putting it into neutral at the lights isn't acheiving anything except adding shock loading when you re engage the gear.
 

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Quoting from the Owner's Manual..."You may also shift into Neutral, and depress the brake pedal to hold the vehicle stationary during idling." If neutral is there, it is to be used.
Regarding a fluid change...Lots of metal pieces rubbing each other. Yes a fiddle to change fluid, however would rather do preventative maintenance, than breakdown repairs.
I work in Aviation by the way.
 

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Its your car, bear in mind it's got a 3 year factory warranty, so I wouldn't touch it for another year.

Think of a CVT like a turbo prop, should only be touched by trained professionals. I rebuild automatic transmissions, but I refuse to touch CVT's they are just too much trouble. Some are that touchy that 100 ml over or under full causes issues
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quoting from the Owner's Manual..."You may also shift into Neutral, and depress the brake pedal to hold the vehicle stationary during idling." If neutral is there, it is to be used.
Regarding a fluid change...Lots of metal pieces rubbing each other. Yes a fiddle to change fluid, however would rather do preventative maintenance, than breakdown repairs.
I work in Aviation by the way.
I have read around the fluid change and some people with Nissan CVT (Jatco) complained due to premature failures...all topics opened in 2010/2012. I would rely on the official maintenance Manual and maybe do some research about Suzuki Celerio CVT, if users applied any change....we are speaking about 960kg car with very low torque so certain constraints here can be come optional.

Why you do.not extend to 6 years the warranty and just forget it :)...at the 6th year U can resell about 4/5000 euro and that's all.
 

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Thanks for the 'heads-up'. Could probably wait another 12 months, although my curiosity may get the better of me. Lifetime transmission fluid, just means till the end of warranty I guess.
Had an association with a vehicle a few years back, (Holden) with original lube in the AT and Diff. At just 40,000km, their 'Life' had come to an end! Whining and clunking rear end, and AT slipping.
Wasn't my car, however thought it to be something that could have been avoided, if a change had been done earlier. Certainly, would be wary of using CVT in a car with more weight and power.
From reading I've done, in recent models, Jatco have improved some of their issues concerning longevity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
For sure it is a never ending improvements, any how they had troubles in the past. Today most the forum (German, Italians, and here too) are pointing out that best CVT technologies are honda and Toyota because they develop CVT differently. I believe that the thruth is in the middle and if the transmission is sealed, and you can have 100.000 km or 6 years warranty....it cost less to extend it that replacing the fluid...After 6 years the car will be more than old and you put a 0.85% month devaluation factor, in 6 years will still have around 4/5000 euro of value which is make it very worth to reselling: why stressing now, with the risk to loose any warranty.

P.S. the first replacement for some people in nissan forum is around 60.000 but suzuki doesn't do. Frankly speking I would write directly to Jatco because they cannot lie in giving suggestions

P.S. Stevenage? Airbus?? :D
 

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My 2017 Ignis Hybrid has now done 90.000km and the CVT is still operating as well as it was when I bought it at 40k. I did a partial CVT fluid change at about 50k by using an oil pump to extract as much as possible through the CVT filler tube, then topping with a measured amount of Fuchs Titan ATF CVT. By memory, about 3 ltrs came out. I get around 60 imperial mpg measured from my Ignis with my usual fairly even balance of town and country running.

Now let's pre-empt comments by stating here that the best method of doing a CVT change is to drop the gearbox oil pan, drain all of the oil, replace the filter and then re-fill with the correct quantity of specified oil. That's a pain in the ass process, particularly when there isn't a properly equipped workshop with hoist available. I figure that my method is not far off as good, particularly when repeated at 50k intervals. I first used this system on previously owned Mitsubish Colt CVT and Suzuki Kizashi CVT at 50k intervals and when I sold the Colt at 180k and the Kizashi at 130k the gearboxes were operating like new. Both used JATCOs. I researched the compatible oil question before using it and came away satisfied that the Fuchs oil was up to spec. My results seem to confirm this.

As for the pros and cons of CVT vs geared autos, I'm quite comfortable with the "rubber band" effect which in reality isn't that much of an issue with modern CVTs except at the occasional journo's keyboard. CVTs also make sense to me insofar as efficiency goes, for an internal combustion engine to produce optimal results they need to be operated at whatever revs give the best performance or economy, whichever is the design goal. A stepped gearbox is always moving up and down through the optimal revs, whereas a CVT can be programmed to sit at the optimal revs. I guess that there may possibly be a friction penalty to be paid with CVTs vs geared autos but in balance I think that CVTs are more efficient both in terms of performance and economy. I am aware that a few decades back one of the Formula 1 teams played with a CVT gearbox and anecdotally got a couple of seconds per lap - FIA promptly banned CVT before it ever got to race.

It's interesting too to consider that modern geared autos are getting more and more ratios to try and keep engine revs optimal, which makes them behave more like a CVT than a geared auto so why not just go with the relative simplicity of the CVT in the first place?

Finally, we have recently bought a Kia Seltos which runs a CVT (they call it an IVT but that's just a marketing term, it's a push belt CVT) and I have to say that the Seltos gearbox is the best that I've driven with bar none, no perceptible lag or flare and utterly smooth in it's operation. Drive one if you ever get the chance, it gives you a yardstick by which to judge other gearboxes. And even more finally, I have also ridden an Aprilia Mana 850 motorbike with CVT and that also is a revalation as to how a gearbox should operate. The Mana is a very lowly tuned 850 producing only 53bhp (my Suzuki GSX-R750 produced 150bhp) and the Mana is pretty porky at about 230kg (vs the GSX-R is about 180kg). None the less the Mana's real world performance is impressive and the CVT a delight to use.
 

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Thanks for the 'heads-up'. Could probably wait another 12 months, although my curiosity may get the better of me. Lifetime transmission fluid, just means till the end of warranty I guess.
Had an association with a vehicle a few years back, (Holden) with original lube in the AT and Diff. At just 40,000km, their 'Life' had come to an end! Whining and clunking rear end, and AT slipping.
Wasn't my car, however thought it to be something that could have been avoided, if a change had been done earlier. Certainly, would be wary of using CVT in a car with more weight and power.
From reading I've done, in recent models, Jatco have improved some of their issues concerning longevity.
Latest News; At 25000km (2 years) I drained the CVT fluid, and put in new filters and seals. Oil was very dark, filters were dirty, a reasonable amount of sludge in the pan and around magnets.
The drain plug lets go about 3 litres, with about another litre when pan drops. The pan filter is easy enough, however the small pleated paper 'barrel' filter on LH side, requires wheel off, and guard liner removed to gain access. Used our Australian Penrite CVT fluid, comparable with Suzuki Green2. I know there was approx 1.2 litres left internally, but not concerned. Just put back exactly the amount out.
The vehicle CVT runs same as before, with perhaps smoother take up. The most difficult part, was identifying the CVT unit...'Jatco Suzuki Two stage JF015'. Job sorted.
 

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Latest News; At 25000km (2 years) I drained the CVT fluid, and put in new filters and seals. Oil was very dark, filters were dirty, a reasonable amount of sludge in the pan and around magnets.
The drain plug lets go about 3 litres, with about another litre when pan drops. The pan filter is easy enough, however the small pleated paper 'barrel' filter on LH side, requires wheel off, and guard liner removed to gain access. Used our Australian Penrite CVT fluid, comparable with Suzuki Green2. I know there was approx 1.2 litres left internally, but not concerned. Just put back exactly the amount out.
The vehicle CVT runs same as before, with perhaps smoother take up. The most difficult part, was identifying the CVT unit...'Jatco Suzuki Two stage JF015'. Job sorted.
The Jatco CVT7 gearbox is very complex and oil quality and level is critical.

One common complaint of this and similar gearboxes is uneven motion and jerks during acceleration. Most of these problems arise from the presence of metal particles from the variable pulleys and drive belt. Up to a point the magnets in the gearbox traps some debris as do the two filters. Essentially the presence of particles causes damage to solenoids, valve body and pressure relief valve. Rectification of problems is horrendously expensive - the metal belt, for example is £400. There is much advice around on the frequency of oil changes and the consensus seems to be around 40000Km. I'm not sure what Suzuki recommends in terms of CVT maintenance. The experience of Mike_au supports the fact that there is significant amount of debris in the gearbox after modest mileage.

When changing the oil, it's important to follow the procedure described above. Limited draining from the drain plug and refilling may well do more harm than good since settled deposits will be disturbed and redistributed. Use either Suzuki Green 2 or Nissan NS3. If using an equivalent, carefully check the specification.
 

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I wouldn't recommend a fluid change, CVT's are notoriously picky on correct oils and this is best left to a dealer

remember its a normal automatic box with a torque converter but with a variable speed drive between the converter and the main gearbox. Putting it into neutral at the lights isn't acheiving anything except adding shock loading when you re engage the gear........
...........except that before engaging gear would it not be best (in the traditional manner) to first apply the footbrake to absorb the shunt/shock? Just a thought!
 

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...........except that before engaging gear would it not be best (in the traditional manner) to first apply the footbrake to absorb the shunt/shock? Just a thought!
even with the foot brake on you are still shock loading the CVT internals when you engage gear
 

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Interesting.
Does this mean that by default the 'CVT internals' are being shock loaded every time drive or reverse are selected from the engine being initially fired up, or just by when the engine is already running and drive is selected from the neutral gear position? e.g. from a long wait at traffic lights? Wouldn't there be more wear and tear by allowing 'drive' to be continually engaged and just holding the car on the footbrake for 'x' amount of time before moving off. A similar situation being with traditional toque converters, ie remain engaged or slip into neutral?
 

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Applying the brakes when selecting D won’t reduce shock but from a safety viewpoint, D or R should only be selected with your foot on the brake so that the car doesn’t move unexpectedly. Indeed many autos have a shift lock inhibitor which prevents the stick moving out of P or N until the brake pedal is pressed. The gearbox is shock loaded any time that D or R is selected and it is designed to tolerate this. With the engine at idle speed, the torque converter isn’t locked so the converter offers a degree of cushioning against shock loading. Keeping the car in D when stationary results in less wear and tear than constantly moving in and out of N. However if a traffic delay is likely to be significant then it’s sensible to apply the handbrake and select N. There are a couple of operations with potential for gearbox damage. Firstly revving the engine when stationary and then selecting D. Secondly, stationary balancing the car on an incline using the accelerator for an extended period can result in gearbox overheating.
 
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