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2008 Suzuki Grand Escudo, 2.4 lt automatic. 2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0 lt
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Discussion Starter #1
After reading the reply by “D C Friend” to the post “Radio quandary” I thought I should get some thoughts on changing engine oil the easy way as I did on my last change.
Crawling under the car is not so easy nowadays so I thought I would try the suck the oil out through the dip stick tube method.
As a test I got a cheap 12v engine oil extractor pump on line and sucked. It worked well. For this fist attempt I did get under the car again to check how much oil was left in the sump which was 300ml's.
The process was quick and easy, I could pump straight to my disposal container and I think 300ml's is not a excessive amount to leave in the sump if you are changing the oil filter at the same time and not quite so able.
You could change more frequently it concerned.
I am very interested to hear your thoughts on this method, for and against, but my legs that now don't like getting me up from ground level think it's a great way of changing oil.
The benefits would be very motor dependent but in my 2.4lt GV I think is stacks up.
 

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no problems using this method but you will leave some remaining in the sump as you have discovered. There is a downside tho, lack of eyeball under the car spotting potential issues. If its a risk you want to take, then thats fine.

I'm lazy, I get someone else to service it, and also get diff and transfer case levels checked each oil change, and seals on driveshafts for signs of leakage etc. Good mkII eyeball over everything, suspension, lines etc. Spotted a split CV boot last oil change, got it just before it started to spray grease everywhere. looked like a schist cut. Damned kiwi shingle riverbeds.
 

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To my way of thinking 300ml is not an insignificant amount of oil - but - when put into perspective, 300 ml out of a total of 5 liters, is only 6%, so from that point of view, not really a lot.

But - as 2013GV has pointed out - a service should be more than just an oil & filter change.
 

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2008 Suzuki Grand Escudo, 2.4 lt automatic. 2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0 lt
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Discussion Starter #4
Yes, a forced gaze around the undercarriage should not be underestimated and as it happens I do need to have look for a slight vibration which I have been putting off. I should move the wife's out of the garage and check it now but it's all wet at the moment. So another day.
 

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2008 Suzuki Grand Escudo, 2.4 lt automatic. 2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0 lt
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Discussion Starter #5
I just realized what I have said "I should move the wife's out of the garage".
It pays to prove read.
 

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I'm making no comment on that, one wife is bad enough.....
 

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Hmmmm... Interesting how this subject came up. A mechanic mentioned 3 days ago to me about extracting the oil through some other method and I heard the word extraction there somewhere. When I puncture my oil filter I could dribble a few hundred ml in again and further dilute the remaining crap oil before changing the filter. I'll do whatever it takes to remove the dead oil if it means not having to take the smash-plate and recovery points off (or even removing my access plate to the oil drain hole). I accept issues of not viewing other things under the vehicle and constantly checking other fluid levels. The biggest benefit to me is also the issue of the old knee joints being a bit reluctant to straighten up after being under body.
I am picking that most oil changes, that you don't do yourself, use the extraction method. I have been spoilt in that all other vehicles in the last 10 years I have owned all had/have easy access to the oil filter and drain holes.
Been thinking about this a bit more. A few things occur to me - if you have to get under to remove the oil filter then not much point in using the extractor, replacing the plastic tubing with some ss brake line might be preferably, where do you find info as to where the check stick goes to in the sump ?
As mentioned above this system would suit me down to the ground although maybe every 5 changes I would do it properly.
One of the biggest concerns appears to be how much oil is left in the sump. But when you are bleeding your brakes you quite happily discard a quantity of good fluid so same thing - dribble a bit of fresh oil (even a thinner grade or heated oil) into the engine and suck again. If the end of the hose reaches well into the sump (so this info is quite critical) then there would only be a miniscule amount of oil left.
I think I will be giving this a go.
 

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I just looked at the ipb for the 3.2ltr engine. It looks as if the dip stick hole reaches to the bottom of the sump (and it will actually be easy to check this). Tomorrows job. I am trying to remember if the drain plug had a magnet in it.
 

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One of the vehicles I own is a Mitsubishi Pajero iO, for those of you not familiar with it, it's a compact SUV similar in size & capability to the first generation Sidekick/Vitara, the biggest difference is that the "Smart Select 4WD" system allows 2H, 4H (which is AWD), 4HLc & 4LLc (these last two lock the center differential, and like the Sidekick/Vitara, should not be used on a dry surface).

The iO comes from the factory with a light bash plate which has a drain plug opening, but no access to the filter which is vertically mounted on the side of the oil pump at the bottom front of the engine, so the bash plate has to removed to change the filter. Worse, at least in my opinion, is the location of the drain plug, near the front of the oil pan - for me the norm used to be run the front of the vehicle up on ramps to get room to work, but with the iO, the "nose up" attitude traps dirty oil in the pan, a lot less than that 300ml, but I wasn't comfortable with it. I went out and bought a "low profile" drain pan that I could use without lifting the front of the car.

That removal of the bash plate and slide under has allowed me to notice many potential problems early enough to prevent them from becoming problems - like torn steering rack boots.
 

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Hmmmm... Interesting how this subject came up. A mechanic mentioned 3 days ago to me about extracting the oil through some other method and I heard the word extraction there somewhere. When I puncture my oil filter I could dribble a few hundred ml in again and further dilute the remaining crap oil before changing the filter. I'll do whatever it takes to remove the dead oil if it means not having to take the smash-plate and recovery points off (or even removing my access plate to the oil drain hole). I accept issues of not viewing other things under the vehicle and constantly checking other fluid levels. The biggest benefit to me is also the issue of the old knee joints being a bit reluctant to straighten up after being under body.
I am picking that most oil changes, that you don't do yourself, use the extraction method. I have been spoilt in that all other vehicles in the last 10 years I have owned all had/have easy access to the oil filter and drain holes.
Been thinking about this a bit more. A few things occur to me - if you have to get under to remove the oil filter then not much point in using the extractor, replacing the plastic tubing with some ss brake line might be preferably, where do you find info as to where the check stick goes to in the sump ?
As mentioned above this system would suit me down to the ground although maybe every 5 changes I would do it properly.
One of the biggest concerns appears to be how much oil is left in the sump. But when you are bleeding your brakes you quite happily discard a quantity of good fluid so same thing - dribble a bit of fresh oil (even a thinner grade or heated oil) into the engine and suck again. If the end of the hose reaches well into the sump (so this info is quite critical) then there would only be a miniscule amount of oil left.
I think I will be giving this a go.
why didn't you mount your filter up the other way?
 

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Same reason why I decided its current position was easier than the one I was originally going to use. And same reason why I shifted it in the first place. Access to twist easily and physical access to remove it downward without dribbling oil everywhere. By pointing upwards it is a piece of cake to physically remove. The oil comes into the filter from the outer side and exits from the center. There is a one way valve on the way in. A mechanic suggested doing it this way. I am thinking that by puncturing a hole in the top it will allow all contents to flow back down into the sump so there will only be a residual amount left around the edge when I remove it so easy to clean up. Some research revealed that there are actually quite a few vehicles that don't do an initial startup with the oil filter filled (ie they wait until the filter is filled by the pump before you have full flow through it. It appears that the couple of seconds are insignificant until the filter fills. This is even on some very expensive cars). The filter certainly gets hot so there is flow through it. No easy way to check for trapped air pockets in the filter. The one way valve in the filter should stop flow backwards. So far it seems to work. I have even seen some vehicles with vertically mounted filters.
I take the point that changing oil is a good time to have a butchers around the rest of the underneath. Even with the bashplates fitted it is still possible to do a lot of that - it is just a case of making the time to do it. Now I don't go 4WDing all the time but more likely just the odd time. Bashplates, suspension etc is more to do with being prepared the odd time I do go since I don't want hassles that may require me having to walk 20kms to get help just because of a bit of sand.
More regular maintenance, like checking transmission fluid levels etc, I have never done. Only doing this at the recommended times or distances. I am thinking that I don't go 4WDing enough, or seriously enough, to change this. The front bashplate has to come off one more time to straighten it and I won't ever (?????) need to do this again. I have some modifications done to them so I can remove, and run, with one of them missing (except the front one because the recovery points bolt over them). So although the GV had only done about 38k (at the time) I did ALL the fluids. Leaking shaft seals etc all seem easy enough to check with everything in place. Time will tell.
Thoughts about existing setup. I might one day replace the 8AN with 10AN tubes. It will be a simple job. And I might even consider orienting the filter differently as there is possibly room if I get creative. Any changes would be done at the same time as any other required work ie changing the tubing size would coincide with front bashplate off again. Having the V6 under the bonnet has left limited room to do much else.
 

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For anybody following this thread and who has a 3.2ltr engine note that you CANNOT get a 6mm hard plastic tube down the dipstick hole. It meets an obstruction about 3/4 the way down so back to using the sump bung or Stahlbus oil valve.
 

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For anybody following this thread and who has a 3.2ltr engine note that you CANNOT get a 6mm hard plastic tube down the dipstick hole. It meets an obstruction about 3/4 the way down so back to using the sump bung or Stahlbus oil valve.
That will be the swage in the tube where it enters the block more than likely
 

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It makes you wonder just how many vehicle really can have their old oil extracted via the dipstick. All the pumps and drain valves I have seen all mention that the oil has to be hot (but not too hot interestingly otherwise the cheaper pumps can be damaged) to be able to use the pumps/valves. I might see if I can buy some 5mm tubing somewhere. Also currently making some efforts to find a Stahlbus drain valve. I have good access to the drain valve through my hole in the bashplate but have to confess I did not check the angle of hot oil to see whether it will actually exit the hole especially after it reduces to a dribble.
 

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2008 Suzuki Grand Escudo, 2.4 lt automatic. 2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0 lt
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Discussion Starter #15
The pump that I have has a 6mm OD tube and there were no problems inserting into to 2.4lt. If I remember correctly I pumped it cold. Mr Google tells me that the temperature that day was 5C over night rising to 16C at midday so at a guess the oil was probably between 5 and 10 degrees C. Probably closer to 5C on 20th October 2020.
Having 2 pumps you could have one for the auto transmission and avoid any contamination of the AT fluid.
They are cheap enough.
 

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My pump has a 6mm tube and it hits about 2/3 the way in. As 2013GV says probably the swage in the tube. I will try and locate a 5mm tube to see if that is enough. My pump says to heat the engine first but only to about 40C. If at full temp it might damage the pump. Oil flows better with some heat in it but my worry is if I get to a 5mm tube it may take some time to pump out (although I am not usually in a hurry). I pulled out my dipstick and poked a narrow rod down just to see how deep it would go. But the swines had introduced two slight bends to clear other pipes so that didn't work. I was hoping to use a length of brake piping or something to make it more friendly. It could have actually not needed the bends for clearance as there is plenty of room. My main concern is that the dipsticks don't need to actually reach the bottom of the sump to be able to still indicate whether Suzuki considers there is enough oil in there. If I get really desperate I will try and find either a wrecked engine or go to an engine reconditioner to find out just how far down the dipstick goes.
It may be a bit moot now as I have found an almost local source for the Stahlbus sump drain valve which will still allow me to drain the oil without removing the smashplates and recovery points so may or may not chase after some 5mm tubing.
 
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