Suzuki Forums banner

61 - 80 of 88 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
My 2cents, in the spring my radiator failed on my 2.0 2002 base tracker. After replacing the radiator along with the upper/lower hoses and thermostat I filled the system as I always had, engine cap off and top off after you see the thermostat cycle.
Very happy idling in the driveway until I would start to drive it, it wouldn’t go a mile without overheating. No heat from heating system. Repeated to process several times including re-replacing the thermostat, same results. Finally (and with some help from this forum) I raised the front end as high as could to get the radiator top tank higher than the rest of the system. Then with the radiator cap on tight, engine running I started loosening hoses starting at the heater core and working my way forward as I got good coolant flow out of each spot. Finally got good heat and the cooling system has been spot on through the heat of summer and I’m getting better heat than before. As an industrial mechanic for years I’ve probably been into more cooling systems than I could count but never had this kind of problem with purging air from a cooling system before. Anyway something to consider, good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Discussion Starter #62 (Edited)
Thanks.
Anything is worth a shot.
I'll through it up on the ramps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Discussion Starter #63
I haven't used an ir gun but at idle in the garage my scanner shows a temperature of 200 degrees.
Next test drive will include temp at overheat.
Hoses appear fine. I ran endoscope through both but I suppose I'll just replace them as it's been 5 years and I can't really see what's going on with them while under load.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,768 Posts
scanners only picking temp up at ECT sensor, will only tell you temp at that point. Will indicate if its actually overheating tho. My J24's get to a max of 210F idling in traffic on a hot day, run about 200 when moving
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Discussion Starter #65
It's really irritating. But for this overheat issue, the engine run really well for a 165k motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,768 Posts
it is quite possibly an air lock, check your hoses as you were going to do, and got any axle stands? stick the front up as high as you can and fill it and bring it up to operating temp like that if you can. It may help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Discussion Starter #67
I have ramps and stands. I'll use the ramps.
Still don't understand the cold lower hose though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,768 Posts
airlock preventing pump circulating water, and thermostat not opening.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Discussion Starter #69
Still don't get it. Didn't have this issue the last time I flushed and replaced coolant. Didn't do anything special like jacking vehicle up.
But having issues now so I'm open to anything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,768 Posts
remove thermostat, refill and drive
if the bottom hose gets warm then you got a bad thermostat. Thats the first step. Top and bottom hoses will be colder and closer together in temp as flow will be higher with no thermostat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Discussion Starter #71
Yeah, that's the next plan of action.
Start back at the basics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,768 Posts
yep, KISS theory applies here, eliminate one thing at a time, starting with the thermostat
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Yeah, I thought that to, but I had to ask just in case. T-stat is on its own. Temp sensor and cooling fan are in tandem.
But that's another thing.....I could go out and start it while it's cold and the fan will kick on for bit but I don't remember if it's coming on when overheating occurs.
Hallo GMJoe,
Your overheating issue must be one of the longest on the forum I have seen.
Anyway I have the same GV 2.0 litre engine as yours J20A and just like to add my findings into all the correspondence.
It is indeed absolutely normal on the engine that after driving any lengths of time and km, that the top radiator hose is far warmer than the lower radiator hose so much so that it is almost impossible to touch the top pipe for any lengths of time compared to the lower one.
This is the direct result of a “reverse flow” cooling system. Not that the flow of cooling water is reversed in any ie from bottom to top, but simply put this engine has the thermostat at the bottom of the engine situated at the end of the lower radiator hose leading to the thermostat housing.
The operation is simple but very effective: Engine warms up to the point where at 85-88C the thermostat will start to open. As a very small amount of warm water from the engine is always circulating thru the radiator because of the small air bleed valve situated in the thermostat, the amount of cool radiator water, after the thermostat has opened is now entering the thermostat and closes the thermostat within seconds until the desired engine temperature is reached again. Sound perhaps complicated but trust me this is how it works. I have travelled to far and very warm places in Namibia and Botswana and on regular checks have found the bottom radiator hose comfortable to touch and that by 45C ambient temperature. So that is absolutely normal!
Now, just to check if all the air is out of the complete cooling system try to do the following. Top up with water the radiator as usual. Try to obtain a blank radiator cap, with other word one without the spring, one you use for an engine fitted with an extra expansion tank, not like the Suzuki which has an ordinary water reservoir. Once toped up with water make sure you feed the radiator overflow pipe into the water reservoir which has roughly 2-3 cm water in it. Just make sure that the end of the pipe leading into the tank is under water! Now start the engine and watch. As the engine warms up, water will expand and as you have an blank radiator cap fitted the warm water will slowly flow into the reservoir. As warmer the engine gets as more water will flow into the reservoir but at the same time you will see perhaps bubbles coming up indicating that there is indeed air trapped in the cooling system. Run the engine for say 10-15 minutes.
Now do the following. As you saying you can let the engine idle for long time without overheating, increase the engine speed to say 2000rpm. Again keep a watchful eye on the reservoir to see if bubbles appear. Do that again for 10 minutes. By now the engine is nice and warm and so will be to a lesser extend the radiator. In order to check if the viscous radiator fan is working you can do the following procedure but EXTREME CAUTION IS REQUIRED IN PERFORMING THIS!!!
You need to stop the viscous fan from turning while the engine is running. Take a piece of wood or similar and place it in the blades of the fan. Now ask somebody to start the engine with you blocking the blades from turning. Just make sure you hold whatever blocks the fan very tight as you will feel a jolt in the beginning as the fan wants to turn. Remember to hold tight and now increase the revolutions of the engine slightly still holding the fan blades still. You will feel a constant drag as the fan wants to turn freely. No cooling is taking place now and by observing the reservoir you may noticed more bubbles coming out and the water lever will rise. If you let the engine running for 5 minutes in that state the temperature will increase and so will be the resistance from the fan as well. If you now remove whatever stops the fan from turning, just observe if the fan blows out more air thru the radiator and makes a more windy noise.
Should however continuously bubbles appear in the reservoir than as has been suggested you may have a slight blown head gasket or even a cracked head or block. If however you find that there are now bubbles, let the engine cool down and you will notice that the water level will drop in the reservoir as the water will be sucked back into the engine.
As a matter of fact My GV has now done 205.000km and is in 100% working condition but gets more than regular attention with regular syncetic oil and filter changes every 5000km. The GV will still take me to deep places into the bush, like Namibia and Botswana.
Hope you get right
Greetings from Cape Town
Kalahari
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Discussion Starter #74
Ok, part #5 on diagram (water cap) has an air bleed screw for cooling system right next to the temp sensor. Its not called out on the diagram but you can see the boss.
Here's a pic:
95059

It a 12mm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Ok, part #5 on diagram (water cap) has an air bleed screw for cooling system right next to the temp sensor. Its not called out on the diagram but you can see the boss.
Here's a pic:
View attachment 95059
It a 12mm.
Ok, part #5 on diagram (water cap) has an air bleed screw for cooling system right next to the temp sensor. Its not called out on the diagram but you can see the boss.
Here's a pic:
View attachment 95059
It a 12mm.
GMJoe,
You absolutely right in pointing out the screw, part number 09246-04005 on the water outlet, part number 17570-77EA0 as a bleed screw.
However I have omitted this part in my reply for a simple reason: Unfortunately most owners do not check for the correct 50/50 mixture of water and ethylene glycol antifreeze with the result that on an 20 year old car the screw is sitting pretty tight in the housing due to severe corrosion and could just be so tight that by trying to undoing it you can crack the aluminium housing, which I have seen on one rather neglected vehicle.
Perhaps an easier way in that case would be to remove the heater outlet pipe leading into the heater matrix.
I hope that your overheating problem is now coming to an end.
Regards
Kalahari
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Discussion Starter #76
Nope. Still idled at 200 with good heat. Took it for a drive and after 2 miles started overheating. Had my scanner hooked up and temp got to 260. Warm upper hose, cool lower hose.
With the car running should I be able to stop the fan with my finger? Cause I can.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,768 Posts
Nope. Still idled at 200 with good heat. Took it for a drive and after 2 miles started overheating. Had my scanner hooked up and temp got to 260. Warm upper hose, cool lower hose.
With the car running should I be able to stop the fan with my finger? Cause I can.
nope, fan should have chopped your finger off
fix that first, or fit an electric, that will be a significant cause of the issues
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Discussion Starter #78
Yeah, I want to fix all the problems, even if it has nothing to do with my main flow issue. I read something about if the small pipe going to the water pump housing is clogged it will cause the thermostat to not open. I checked and that passage is clear but what if the clog is occurring further up-stream which would be the heater core.
I think that's my next point of action, bypass the heater core and see what happens.
First, a fan clutch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Discussion Starter #79
Have a good Thanksgiving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Have a good Thanksgiving.
GMJoe,
By now I guess you must have accumulated more grey hair over your overheating issue.
What ever it's worth it.....just read my comments regarding the cooling fan again, as you can stop the fan from turning while engine is running but not with your fingers. Again let the engine idling and than take a stick and firmly lock it into the turning fan. It will make a noise but it will stop turning as long as you block the fan.
Further I have a attached an article regarding the fan clutch which could help you in narrowing down your problem. You may have to remove the fan clutch completely to gain access to the bimetal strip situated in the centre of the hab as the bimetal strip in detrimental in the correct operation of the fan clutch. The bimetal strip has to be clean and freed of from any debris as it acts as a heat conductor. To the article:
COOLING FAN CLUTCH
Fluid is enclosed in the cooling fan clutch and at its center front, there is a bimetal whose thermal reaction and the engine speed control the cooling fan speed.
The relation between the temperature detected by the fan clutch and operation of the fan clutch is as follows. While the fan clutch detects a temperature lower than 50C, it remains OFF and the fan revolution speed is constant (400 to 900 r/min. (rpm) : J20 and H25 engines, 600 to 1,300 r/min.(rpm) : G16 engine) regardless of the engine speed. As the temperature reaches 50C to 70C, the fan clutch turns ON gradually and the fan revolution speed increases. A temperature exceeding 70C causes the fan clutch to turn ON and the fan revolution speed to increase in proportion with the engine speed. Once the engine speed exceeds 4,000 r/min.(rpm), however, the fan revolution speed becomes constant (2,350 to 2,650 r/min.(rpm) : J20 and H25 engines, 2,800 to 3,100 r/min.(rpm) : G16 engine.
Regards from a warm Cape Town
Kalahari
 
61 - 80 of 88 Posts
Top