Suzuki Forums banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello friends...new here today. Good to be with you.

Here goes, please help if you can.

1996 hardtop tracker 16valve L4. Got a new head gasket installed and worked great for a month. Pulled out of the driveway and the vehicle simply sputtered and died....then no start condition. Key on starts the fuel pump relay to click erratically and various other electrical clicking sounds. Fuel pump cutting on and off instead of standard 3 second run. Relay keeps clicking intermittently but vehicle will not fire. So far new ECM and distributor (used parts not too expensive)no change. Not getting spark from #1 cylinder wire to engine ground. I don't smell gas. won't fire with starting fluid in air intake. This really seems like it would be cut and dry because it just won't go but it has got me baffled. Tested the distributors (both) ala Chiltons manual. Don't quite know where to go next. Fuel pump ground? Fuel pump short? Why no spark? It seems to me like a ground fault but I'm throwing it out to you veterans because the car has more sustems and electronic functions than I am used to. Any help is appreciated.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
24,450 Posts
My first bit of advice would be to dump the Chilton's manual. The factory service manual for your car is free to download over on Acks FAQS. Chiltons has loads of misinformation.
So, your car cranks, but will not start, and will not start on test fuel. Normally, the continual clicking of relays indicates an ECU problem, where the ECU is rebooting over and over again. You advise that you have replaced the ECU - was that in an effort to solve this problem? Have you checked the power to the ECU as well as the ground to it? (what is the voltage reading for your battery? The ECU will not operate properly if the battery is not decently charged). Is your no spark issue for all cylinders, or just #1??
I believe that Chiltons may have the firing order for the plugs incorrectly - your car fires 1-3-4-2, and your rotor rotates counterclockwise.
Is your check engine light on with the key on??
Note that if the ECU does not see spark, it will stop fuel delivery as a precaution. Presumably you have checked all your fuses, and also confirmed that your timing belt hasn't broken (look down oil filler hole while cranking to see cam spin).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Hi There,
Thanks for the current reply. I haven't metered the battery but it's showing over 13 volts after solid charge at many test points. Motor is spinning well from starter motor. Check engine light is on with key on. Have not checked other spark leads, will do today. A new timing belt was installed when the head gasket was replaced so cam and rotor are spinning fine. The replacement ECU was installed in an effort to rectify the no start. I guess it is a good possibility that the ground to the ECU is faulty. Would that be one of the pins? Can I make a direct ground for a test? I will proceed with factory manual download. Chiltons is a very haphazard source for info, I agree. As I said , the car was running flawlessly then it abruptly died....something gave out. Fuses all checked visually but not metered. I would think it has to be something simple.

Thanks, My mom's tracker has to live on!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
24,450 Posts
Another suggestion would also be to get a scanner for the car - it appears that you don't have one. With your scanner plugged in, and cranking the car, it would tell you exactly what the computer sees (and possibly why the car will not start). You may actually have a code in the ECU that is preventing starting, so try to at least borrow a scanner and see if there is a code there. The ECU completely controls spark in your car, so it would be pretty important to scan it for codes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Had errands this morning....back to moms tracker,gonna take advantage of all of your advice here!....I'll let you know what happens, Thanks ps. Gonna go out and find a scanner!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Of Folks....let's see what you all make of this......I went out and got an inexpensive scanner at OReilly....I plugged it in and the old tracker started up and purred like a kitten....Huh? If you pull the scanner out it kills the engine....assessment anyone?
Mom's old tracker wants to boogie and I must be getting closer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
OK ...Tracker starts and runs fine with scanner plugged in.....dies when you unplug it....What is going on? Losing ground in computer? At least I know other things aren't the problem.Any ideas?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,356 Posts
OK ...Tracker starts and runs fine with scanner plugged in.....dies when you unplug it....What is going on? Losing ground in computer? At least I know other things aren't the problem.Any ideas?
Runs fine, as in, driving it on the road?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Hi,
Runs and idles , purring like a kitten.....I don't know if I want to drive it on the hiway with the scanner making it run but it seem like it would drive fine, revs nice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,356 Posts
Hi,
Runs and idles , purring like a kitten.....I don't know if I want to drive it on the hiway with the scanner making it run but it seem like it would drive fine, revs nice.
Okay, well it sounds like it's (scanner) completing a connection to allow proper operation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Yeah...at this point I'm assuming there is a ground fault to the ECM. I have all of the grounds, ground wires and locations identified and will get at it if this funky Wisconsin weather ever decides to actually be nice for more than one day at a time. I suppose it is possible that a sensor is really toast and is drawing voltage and confusing the ECM....more likely a ground though with the sudden interruption of motor operation.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
24,450 Posts
x2. The scanner is completing a ground.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Ok Folks, here's how it sits....

I jumped the ground pins in the scanner port and Tracker runs fine. Built a good jumper out of a stout paperclip and leaving it like that until the weather warms up another twenty degrees. I will track the ground problem going to the computer then. I drove the car on the road and there doesn't seem to be any problems. I will chime in again if anything erratic results or I find where the ground fault is. Thanks for the help everyone. If anyone has any ideas about where the grounding problem might be go ahead and post it. I think I know where all the major grounds are but it is still December temperatures here in WI and it is just too hard to do the diagnostic stuff when your hands won't work!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I made a little more progress diagnosing this issue. All grounds leading to control module are now testing for a good ground. Car has run today intermittently without the ground jumper in place. That really surprised me. It will always run if the jumper is in. While running without the jumper in, the check engine light came on and the car sputtered and died. I am wondering if a malfunctioning sensor, especially the O2 heat sensor is crapping out and causing the control module to shut the car off. I'm getting the 0135 code for the hot O2 sensor and and 0400 EGR code signaling a flow problem. Took the car out and it drives and runs fine, I just need to make it operate according to specs. Any thoughts ?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
24,450 Posts
A dead o2 sensor shouldn't cause the car to die - the car should still run, but run extremely rich. A clogged EGR circuit, however, will cause the car to sputter and die, if its completely blocked up. As you have been fooling around with sensors, jumpers, etc., I would clear the codes in the ECU, so that there are none in memory, and then see what codes come back. With the scanner in place, if your car is not dying, then it is unlikely, however, that any of the above sensors are causing your problem (as completing whatever circuit certainly wouldn't 'clear' EGR passages, etc....;) )
What pins are you jumping on the connectors, to get the car to run??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Hey Bex, Thanks

I just went online and found the pin scheme for a standard scan port and jumped pin 4 and pin 5, both ground and jumped them. The car runs exactly as it should. After more testing I traced all the grounds from the computer plug to both sides of the harness connector and all checked out OK. There's four grounds on the 26 pin connector on one end. Doing another test I pulled the jumper out. At least once the car ran OK but after a few minutes it went back to fail mode. So this time I jumped a straight ground from the frame to the tiny stripped back portion of the BL/OR test point on the harness connector and lo and behold the car runs again as it should. My thinking is now that even though the grounds to the box are good something is creating too much resistance to give the circuit what it wants. This is possibly where a bad sensor comes in. It could be failing in such a way that it doesn't prevent the car from operating but upsets the ground flow by making it fluctuate or add resistance. I suspect the hot O2 sensor. At least for now I can run it around with the jumper in . It just doesn't sit well with me to have a half assed solution in place.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
24,450 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Geez Bex,
I think we might have nailed it. Can't say for sure yet but here's what I did. I read your post, looked at the picture and knew right away that I missed that ground. It was hard to see from a top view. At any rate the two grounds connected there moved easily when I jiggled them. I took them off and they were filthy. A little steel wool, shined em' up and clamped that baby down nice and tight. I removed the jumper from the scanner port and the started and idled as it should. It wasn't doing that before. We probably got it. Now I have to let it run for a while and see.

This makes perfect sense to me. They removed the head to put in the head gasket, put everything back together and kinda halfway tightened the ground bolt. Between that and the gunk on the eyelet ends it was getting ground but not a really good ground. The ECM did not like that. that is why the car puked when I pulled out of the driveway initially...it jostled that BL/OR ground just enough to stop the car. Thank You for your help on this, I owe ya' a drink. I will report back after the car runs and drives for a while. I certainly hope this helps all future frustrated gremlin chasers. Mommas Tracker lives on !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,356 Posts
Might want to put some dielectric grease on your clean connections to prevent future corrosion.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top