Suzuki Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Anyone running a front welded locker?
Am I correct in thinking I can unlock one hub and it would be fine to run on the street?
How long did it last before destroying things.
Why did you get rid of it?
(I tried to do check the archives/history but didn't find anything)
I've been thinking about going this direction. I'm also running a Trac-Lock limited slip in the rear (D44 from an old 3a(?)) and figure this is a good and cheap upgrade to work with it.
As an even odder question anyone running a front locker with a plow?

TIA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
yep, if you're front hubs are Unlocked then the locked diff and axles wont be turning as long as you're not in 4wd. This way you can drive around on the street without having to worry about adverse reactions on pavement.

I plan on putting an auto locker up front in mine, just haven't gone around to it yet. I do know that steering with be more limited though so keep that in mind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
sorry, I didn't give enough info.
I was talking about running in 4wd, but with one hub locked so I can make turns. (think in lightly covered snow roads, running down places that you don't want both wheels spinning so you don't slide down a hill sideways.)
The only time I will want both front wheels engaged is when I'm in trouble. ;)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,508 Posts
I would not recommend it - I can tell you what I would expect.

In 2WD the vehicle will probably pull to one side - the one with the hub locked, and in 4WD, it'll probably pull the other way - research torque steer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
When running in 2wd street/around town neither hub would be locked. Why would there be an affect with no hub locked? Even with one hub locked in 2wd, why would there be torque steer? And yea, I understand about torque steer. I've had many front wheel drive cars and for about 6 months I had to drive the sammy around with the rear shaft out with just front wheel drive. (didn't have $ for the rear shaft)
With no power going to the front axle/locked wheel there would be no torque steer... right?
Plus, I'm not overly worried about torque steer. It's not my main ride... would not locked the hub for highway use... etc.
But, thank you for the warning/heads up.
I was mainly talking about what would wear quickly, what would grind to a stop, what would break, etc. Also how long do welded gears last? Yea, I know when welded, the spider gears just move back and forth a little but I figure they bash against the side gears only so many times has to have a limited life span. Plus when no hub is locked they shouldn't bash anyway... or do I not understand?
Years ago I did weld a back set for a friend but after a few months he swapped rears so I'm not sure how long they would have lasted anyway.
Again, TIA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
in 2wd with one hub locked it would actually be drag steer wich is pretty similar. You have one wheel freewheeling while the other wheel is driving the axel, differential and driveshaft.

If you plan on welding it, why would you run with only one wheel engaged? seems pretty pointless. You weld them so that they are locked together and you have equal power distribution. You would do better to have a open diff than half of a locked axel. The axels on the samurai are really light weight and easy to snap even when you are sharing the load across both axel halves. Putting the whole load on one birf is asking for failure.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,862 Posts
Running a welded axle is the last resort for a low budget trail rig. But only do it to the rear if you are going to do it at all. You are better off going to a lockright up frontand here is why.

Unlless you are only going to run straight lines (mud racing, etc) welding the front diff will hurt your offroad capability. When the hubs are locked in, and then you try a tight turn, the vehicle will try to continue straight ahead no matter how hard you have the wheels turned. Both tires will try to pull forward at the same rate (speed). This is one of the reasons you 'hear' folks with air lockers actually turn them off when going into tight turns on the trail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Baratacus-
I guess I would weld them for when I needed a full locker. If I had a full welded locker I bet I would have more of a need for one. ;)

Billjohn-
I thought guys who run air lockers turn them off in order to make turns, 'cause it's hard to turn the wheel otherwise. I guess I'm wrong? I'm not sure how I would still go straight if both front wheels are pointed to the left. But then if for that situation, I am only running one hub locked, why would it go straight?
In past winters I have locked the hubs at the first snow and unlocked them at the last snow fall. I just shifted in and out of 4wd as needed. I've done the same with a F250 I had... never noticed any difference other than getting about 1 or 2mpg less.
I may have a Lockrite for a Sam rear axle that maybe I can swap someone for a front one... Then again I was thinking about going from 33" rubbers to 35". Maybe this would be a good time to swap to another housing. Not sure how long the sammy front can handle 35" rubber.
w/o starting another thread, anyone know how a D44 compares to a Toy axle?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,862 Posts
I guess that was the part I didn't get... With only one wheel locked up front, you down to 3wd (assuming you put the lockrite in back). You can't always be assured that the locked side is always going to be lucky enough to always have the traction. (and 35's will snapit like a twig in anything but loose sand, snow or gravel)
Yes, we turn off the air locker to turn more easily.
The reason a welded (or activated air ocker) doesn't turn as easy is the number of rotations the tires make in a turn. The inside tire does not make as many revolutions as the outside tire. If they are locked together (same revolutions) then they will both go forward at the same rate of speed. Think of it like a tank. The inside track (or tire on the zook) has to almost stop while the other side continues around the circle.

{edit}
Forgot to add that while the front tires are pulling forward, the rear tires are pushing forward with equal pressure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
i guess what is gasjr4wd is trying to ask and what i am also looking for is:

if there was a front lock installed, while driving on-road with 2wd and with 1 front hub locked(to steer normally), will it damage anything?

and whenever we will go off-roading, we will engage 4wd and lock the 2 front hubs.(no problems here)

will this work safely?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,862 Posts
Why lock one hub while in 2wd?
2wd disconnects the tcase end and unlocking both hubs disconnects the axle shafts. No movement means no noise and no vibration. If you reconnect either end of that system (tcase or either side of the welded axle) then you are spinning the whole thing needlessly. If your driveshaft is perfectly balanced and the driveshaft angles are perfect then it won't really matter, but if they aren't then you will have to deal with that vibration and noise. Your call.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
locking 1 hub in 2wd is just to be able to steer correctly.(permanent lock) because even i 2wd the wheels are turning with the front diff, but disconnected from the gear box.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,862 Posts
locking 1 hub in 2wd is just to be able to steer correctly.(permanent lock) because even i 2wd the wheels are turning with the front diff, but disconnected from the gear box.
I understand locking a single hub while in 4wd to allow steering.

My question is, Why lock anything up front while in 2wd? I don't see a purpose. Locking a hub needlessly spins the diff - and if the gears are welded then the driveshaft will also spin. More wear, more vibration, more noise...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
i forgot to mention that while driving on an ice/snow road especially uphill, 2wd will not be enough and 4wd with front lock will not steer (will probably end up in a ditch). so locking 1 hub and getting 3 wheel traction is the only answer that i can come up with.

also i was considering having auto-lockers( ez or lock-rite) but they will eventually almost always lock when ur in 4wd.(and end up in the ditch also :p)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,508 Posts
i guess what is gasjr4wd is trying to ask and what i am also looking for is:

if there was a front lock installed, while driving on-road with 2wd and with 1 front hub locked(to steer normally), will it damage anything?
Actually gasjr4wd has already indicated that on the street and in 2WD he would not have either hub locked.

I would not expect it to damage anything - however - on the street or in the dirt, 2WD or 4WD, with only one front hub locked, you're going to have a "torque steer" type issue - in 2WD, it will pull in the direction of the locked hub, in 4WD, it will pull in the direction of the unlocked hub under power and in the opposite direction when you lift off the gas - you'll be constantly fighting the steering just trying to drive in a straight line.

and whenever we will go off-roading, we will engage 4wd and lock the 2 front hubs.(no problems here)
Whilst you're travelling in a straight line, you'll be fine, when you get into a turn, you'll find it extremely reluctant to go in the direction of your choice.

will this work safely?
In my opinion - NO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
10x, that was a clear summary :D, it seems that whatever tricks that are attempted on permanent or auto-locks are not quite efficient, it seems the only perfect solution is the expensive ARB air lockers.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,862 Posts
Maybe not perfect, but heck, you can air up your tires after a trail ride with the OBA system you have to install to support the ARB's. I love mine...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
or you can put in an LSD and have the power go to the wheel that has traction. As was mentioned earlier, even if you are running 3wd, how do you know that the locked wheel is going to be the one that has purchase... it may be spinning while your unlocked wheel is sitting on something solid but isn't going to go anywhere since your hub on that wheel isn't engaged.

LSD won't give you a 100 percent engagement like a locker but you don't want or need that for snow and ice. It will also be much better than open diff because it will elimnate wheel spin, and it won't hinder your steering like a locker. LSD's are the way to go for Ice and Snow.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,508 Posts
An LSD in front with 4WD engaged WILL require either power steering or a well developed torso in the dry, and I'd be VERY interested to see how you make out getting it to turn in ice/snow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
You don't run 4wd on a traction surface with a locker or an LSD. Good way to snap a birf or burn out your clutch packs.

when you need to engage your hubs, its usually with the understanding that the surface is a low traction surface and you need 4wd. On even ground with questionable traction, like snow, ice, soft sand, a LSD up front is better than a locker.

With off camber driving where you're lifting tires, a locker is going to be better than an LSD since they will go full lock. The LSD will never be able to engage 100%.

keep in mind this is the suzuki samurai LSD, it's not beefy and its also rebuildable, so you should be able to add and remove clutch packs to adjust the engagement to suit your needs.

Only place I see that still sells them though is Hawk. Calmini used to, but they discontinued them a couple years ago.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top