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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All

My baby is a GV 3G diesel 2010. 170k kms (suposedly)

I've replaced EGR, PCV, injectors & turbo and regular oil & air filter changes. EGR was solidly blocked, manifolds (turbo and intake) were heavily coated in sooted. Manifolds got cleaned with degreaser (innox). went well for quite a while.
Now fuel consumption is down under 12km / Ltr. No codes BUT oil consumption is 1ltr per 550km (tank).

The issue is oil consumption. The PCV hose is misting soooo much oil that I reckon that the PCV has busted the membrane AGAIN.

I intend to do another oil change and want to use the Penrite Engine flush (twice) with a 10 minute engine run with the flush then leave my baby in the garage and wait a week or so before a second 10minute engine run then oil change (1 1/2 hrs work to get to oil filter).
A good mate I trust reckons that there must be a blockage in the oil seperator for so much oil mist to be coming out and the PCV membrane to destroy so quickly. His suggestiojn is NOT to do an engine fllush as the film on engine parts need to stay on, for engine to not rattle and wear out quicker and keep the build up on the rings sealing. Then add oil conditioner and THICKER C3 rated oil to reduce engine blow back.

Will the engine flush get to any blockcages?
Will the engine flush negativly impact any of the seals?
After oil change should I install catch can with return to sump?
.......... and if so which catch can style
a) External vented no buffle
b) buffled only
c) baffled with metal kitchen scrubbing filter
d) Stainless condensor filter
e) Cotton filter
Anthing else I need to think about?
 

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I only use engine flush before a tear down and rebuild, depending on what you use you can strip any sealing carbon out of the ring grooves and off the piston land above the top compression ring and cause immediate increase in oil consumption and lots of new rattles.

Then there's any sludge it loosens. This can block tensioner oil feeds, vvt actuators or solenoid and in bad cases oil feed lines to cams etc.

Use an engine flush at your own risk.
 

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I'd suggest you get advice from a local diesel specialist who can do a compression test and determine if a rebuild is required. VW TDI owners have used a filter called a Mann Provent to separate oil but it seems to me that the stock Renault separator should be at least as effective.

100342
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
..do a compression test and determine if a rebuild is required....
When we installed the new injectors and turbo, we did a compression test and valve clearances check to see if it was worn out and both were within specs.

Thanks for you feedback re Engine Flush. The packet on the Penrite says 'good for ...sludge removal at oil change etc etc' And recommends "Use Penrite Engine Flush with every oil change" Insert Sarcasm' I wonder why'???
 

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When we installed the new injectors and turbo, we did a compression test and valve clearances check to see if it was worn out and both were within specs.

Thanks for you feedback re Engine Flush. The packet on the Penrite says 'good for ...sludge removal at oil change etc etc' And recommends "Use Penrite Engine Flush with every oil change" Insert Sarcasm' I wonder why'???
its ok if you use it right from the start when everything is clean, its what happens when you dislodge years of sludge thats the issue. Think heart attack or stroke causes and you will get my drift.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Cheers Kiwi
.
Now to get my head around the PCV. I replaced mine around 25k km ago the new membarne has already split. I can breath a gentle breath in and out which was not what I could when I first got the new replacement one.
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Does the PCV prevent sucking in the oil mist till the engine is warm and prerssure has built up for the PCV to open??
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What I'm wondering if the PCV (postive crankcase valve) operates upon pressure fluctuations/pulses, thus that is why it needs a spring, then what is purpose of the PCV. So what happens when the spring open/close function is broken and stays open.
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Are there none membrane based PCVs that I could replace mine with. The PCV on my Hyundai is metal and gromet with a spring but small. Coudl i replace the suzuki one with two connected PCVs from my Hyundai??
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Also will a baffled catch can smooth out the fluctuations and allow for a straight connection into the air intake between the filter and turbo replacing the PCV??
 

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Discussion Starter #7
any one know where the "Flesh air hose" connects to (red circle)

100347
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
any one know where the "Flesh air hose" connects to (red circle)

View attachment 100347
Does it go to the Oil Pan?? The answer is yes.
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That leads me to ask the question of where does the 'fresh air come from/through (filter) into the oil pan so i can check if it is blocked. I pushed air through the crankcase vent hoses and they flow air possible less flow than I would have expected.
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And would a single/any blocked oil jets cause pulsing from the blow back at the air intake above the air filter when cold?
.
100352
 

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What I'm wondering if the PCV (positive crankcase valve) operates upon pressure fluctuations/pulses, thus that is why it needs a spring, then what is purpose of the PCV. So what happens when the spring open/close function is broken and stays open.
I really don't know exactly what's inside that unit but I suspect it's much the same as any other diesel oil separator, a labyrinth and optionally a coalescing filter, the latter of which I think you're calling a membrane. Gasses are "spun" around the filter media so that the droplets fly outward and run down the inside of the housing. The spring is likely to allow gasses to bypass the filter if it's blocked or the blowby is too high, avoiding dangerously-high crankcase pressure. The Provent unit I mentioned above does all this and drains coalesced oil back into the crankcase. The stock VW TDI separator is only a small labyrinth and as a result a lot of oil mist enters the turbo. Mixed with soot from the EGR causes the intake and intercooler blockage you're familiar with.

Just noting that Suzuki does not call any of this system a "PCV" in the service manual so it's best to avoid using that term as it implies a similar function to that of a petrol engine, which it is not, as it does not have to deal with changing intake vacuum. It should not be restricting ventilation at any time. Gasses will flow whenever crankcase pressure is higher than pressure at the turbo intake, which should be all the time. If the coalescing filter can't handle that most of the time you might have excessive ring blowby.
And would a single/any blocked oil jets cause pulsing from the blow back at the air intake above the air filter when cold?
Not sure exactly what you mean but I'd say "no". The blowback will always have a pulsing effect because it's a 4 cylinder engine. Here's what's inside the Mann Provent.

100356
 

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Discussion Starter #10
OK on a different but related site Renault Megane owners forum.
"
My solution:
Remove the oil seperator pot on the front of the engine. When I did, oil ran out of it. It did this because the pipe that runs from the bottom of it, back to the sump, was absolutely blocked solid. I cleaned the whole thing, and made sure the pipe that runs into the sump was clear. It's not very big, and easily becomes clogged. When it does this, oil fills the tank, which is then drawn out of the top of the oil seperator, through the PCV valve, and into the inlet system.
All cleaned and sorted, I kept my eye on things.
It seemed ok, so decided to take the car to France. Watching like a hawk, it became apparent she was still burning oil, and at a higher rate than it should (about 500ml/250 miles). I kept it topped up, and brought her home. Incidentally, the run down to Bordeaux, returned 48.1 mpg ! and I was "making progress" occasionally ..."


Looks like time to take out anc clean the oil seperator
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I really don't know exactly what's inside that unit but I suspect it's much the same as any other diesel oil separator, a labyrinth and optionally a coalescing filter,.....
cheers for the detail

What would concern me is the " "micro glass...filter" " and if the glass seperates and gets into the system and knowing what happens with "sand (glass) paper".

looks like I need to clean the originally installed seperator.

Anyone know the part number for the Suzuki oil separator as searching for F9Q oil seprator brings up a different one.

What the oil pump side of the engine looks like out of the car, (not mine) I have to work with engine in the car.
100404
 

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That cross section image is one sized for commercial trucks, the one I had bought for my VW (17 years ago) was much smaller, see photo. The filter media did not look like it would fall apart and Mann (Germany) is very reputable. But, I think though you should stick with the stock part if it's serviceable.

100412
 

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Due to a high oil consumption I have studied precisely the gas recirculation circuit.

At first I thought about installing a catch can as you did, but I think it is not the complete solution.

The problem is in the oil separator of the Renault engine, it is the part where the dipstick is also inserted to measure the oil level. (piece number 4)

100503


When that separator or decanter is saturated, it malfunctions, not being able to separate the oil from the gas. It produces an increase in crankcase pressure and thus a higher oil consumption and higher consumption of oil gas recirculation. The PCV valve is also saturated and starts to leak oil. As you have said all these gases go to the turbo, intercooler and the engine burns more oil than normal so that surely the EGR does not do well.

I have not yet disassembled it because in my engine it is difficult to access I am thinking of taking the car to a workshop to do it there,. But I am interested in cleaning it to see if it improves the oil consumption. I have read renault megane forums and many have this problem, the oil separator is somewhat mediocre in its performance.. The piece is attached with 2 screws at its base to the engine, with removing them comes out. I am not sure how to clean the part, if hot water and some degreaser. Maybe this will help you too.


cheers for the detail

What would concern me is the " "micro glass...filter" " and if the glass seperates and gets into the system and knowing what happens with "sand (glass) paper".

looks like I need to clean the originally installed seperator.

Anyone know the part number for the Suzuki oil separator as searching for F9Q oil seprator brings up a different one.

What the oil pump side of the engine looks like out of the car, (not mine) I have to work with engine in the car.
View attachment 100404
Try this one:
1681067JG0 from Grand Vitara parts

I'm not sure if the engine code suits you, check it out.
Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Due to a high oil consumption I have studied precisely the gas recirculation circuit.
........
I have not yet disassembled it because in my engine it is difficult to access .....
Cheers

Yes in the Suzuki GV to get to the seperator is an aboluste .B%&%&**.... but it seems like it is worth doing.
An oil change requires dissassembly for someone with thick arms like mine, 1) Battery base plate 2) intercooler pipe, 3) loosen wire loom 4) alternator connection and a special articulated driver (see my oil change post) gives me room to get to filter (Grrrrrr ^*(&)(&)
So I started the disassembly and continued to the EGR and yes it had already started to get blocked. 1) take out radiator top hose, 3) unclip much of the loom 4) as part of the EGR remove the manifolds now there is "SOME" room. I'm still to see if I can access the pipes and clips without needing to loosen/remove the turbo electric water pump. (Grrrrrr^*)&&()). I'll see if un connectint the pump[ wire might just do it. I'll keep you all updated.

100538
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
No need to remove Turbo Electric Water Pump (above photo wrongly indicates turbo water pump) but unscrew lower electric pump brackets (Near oil Pan on shazzy) provides enough room. Even if a squeeze. Wire loom also gets in the way, but easier to release and put back.
PS dropping screws is a b&()_ch

I took out oil seperation unit and on inspection it was not blocked. But the unit seems not functional for older engines. The unit is not servicable and consists only of chambers. On inspection it was explained that the unit uses negative pressure to manage air flow into chambers. It was suggested that there would be back pressure valves some where in the system but the manual indicates that the return hose and fresh air connector bolt plus the ventilation hose etc etc are not valves. Is this true?
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100735
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Mate suggested that I pump up the oil to 10/15w-50 not 5w-30 since it is at least 170k km old but most probably more and then do a long road trip of at least 2000 km to reseal the cylinders, after innoxing the piston heads insitu. (when replacing injectors camera showed substantial carbonisation on piston face).
 

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I think in normal operation there are no "valves" in the sense of a PCV for petrol. Blow-by gasses flow through the labyrinth from just crankcase pressure and into the intake after the air filter, mixing with cooled EGR gasses. There may be a blow-off valve somewhere in case things get blocked and pressure builds up - the Provent has this in case the filter gets blocked.

It can't hurt to try a thicker oil, at least one with a "40" at the end.
 
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