ESP failure issue

9562 Views 19 Replies 7 Participants Last post by 2013GV, 2 mo ago

Dave2CR

Discussion Starter · Jun 10, 2019

I have a 2010 Suzuki Grand Vitara, 4 cylinder, 2.4 litre, auto transmission, all wheel drive, at about 249,000 km. It's been solid as a rock and in really good condition.
This past December my wife started it, with the transmission in 4 wheel high, and it started giving "Service ESP System" and "Service 4 Wheel Drive" error messages.
The Suzuki authorized repair centre diagnosed it as a faulty ESP module and ordered a replacement. Upon installation they said it "lit everything up" and could not proceed further. It was subsequently found that a different part number was needed but that module replacement had the same outcome.
Suzuki Japan seems to have effectively given up and the vehicle is locked in 4 wheel drive and without anti-lock brakes. The former I care about, the latter much less so.
Has anyone else out there had this issue?
I'm looking for a "recycled" part from a 2010 model but without success/luck so far. If anyone has a suggestion about that I'd love to hear it, too.
ARGH!
Thanks in advance.

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Dave2CR

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jun 11, 2019

aquanaut20 said:
Oach! Sounds like a misdiagnose and cannon ball repair...

What diagnostics are listed on the original WO?

What authorized service shop do you have in Ontario?? They all left town 4 yrs ago in BC...

...... Philip

Pardon this slightly long but complete answer.
Issue statement: "ESP and Service 4WD lights on, 4X4 and cruise inop" This is all correct.
Service description statement: "G scan test, Code C1093, needs ESP module"

After the first replacement module failed I asked specifically if (a) there could be a sensor or mechanical brake problem that causes the C1093 error, and (b) could they at least cause the transfer case to drive back into AWD drive, instead of 4W lock mode. The answer was, in so many words, "no". I've worked through other issues with these folks over a few years and they have been quite competent and, I think, honest.
Issues in the last year have been with a seized transfer case motor and an oxygen sensor failure. Both identified and resolved quite rapidly, and with complete success.

The closest Suzuki authorized service centre to me is in Barrie, ON (still 2.5 hours away) at the G.D. Coates Used Car Superstore. More Suzuki autos there, both for service and sale, than I've seen anywhere for a lot of years.

I worked with G.E. Medical Systems, then rebranded to G.E. Healthcare, for 23 years on everything from simple x-ray systems to research MRI units. I've been in very similar situations myself, both as a field service rep and as a service manager. I know the particular corner of Hades that these folks now reside in. No fun at all.
My suspicions, apart from a true ESP module failure?
1. There may be a hardware or firmware incompatibility that has not been identified between ESP module versions and my vehicles' unit.
2. Somewhere there may be a key instruction missing in their troubleshooting/repair process.
3. There may still be some fault that masquerades as a ESP failure.
I've seen every one of those situations happen in my previous line of work. Damn, I'm glad to be retired!

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Dave2CR

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jun 11, 2019

2013GV said:
so what part are you actually after? and what else has the "service agent" killed?

if the authorised service agent has made it worse, then its their issue to fix it. Consumer law should protect you depending on your location in the world.
Don't drive it on sealed roads if its in 4H lock (it should default to 4H or "normal" every day driving mode if theres an issue) as it will damage driveline components.

Did they actually diagnose it properly? sounds like they just decided to replace the module before actually looking for the root cause.

No damage done. They have tried to resolve it twice and then returned the old module to the car and given it to me to drive back home. They actually did manage to get cruise control back working again and that's handy given the 2.5 hour drive to/from the service centre.
They have previously identified and resolved several service issues over the years, and done so as soon as the parts could be obtained, so I have good confidence in them.

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Dave2CR

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jun 11, 2019

Dave2CR said:
Pardon this slightly long but complete answer.
Issue statement: "ESP and Service 4WD lights on, 4X4 and cruise inop" This is all correct.
Service description statement: "G scan test, Code C1093, needs ESP module"

After the first replacement module failed I asked specifically if (a) there could be a sensor or mechanical brake problem that causes the C1093 error, and (b) could they at least cause the transfer case to drive back into AWD drive, instead of 4W lock mode. The answer was, in so many words, "no". I've worked through other issues with these folks over a few years and they have been quite competent and, I think, honest.
Issues in the last year have been with a seized transfer case motor and an oxygen sensor failure. Both identified and resolved quite rapidly, and with complete success.

The closest Suzuki authorized service centre to me is in Barrie, ON (still 2.5 hours away) at the G.D. Coates Used Car Superstore. More Suzuki autos there, both for service and sale, than I've seen anywhere for a lot of years.

I worked with G.E. Medical Systems, then rebranded to G.E. Healthcare, for 23 years on everything from simple x-ray systems to research MRI units. I've been in very similar situations myself, both as a field service rep and as a service manager. I know the particular corner of Hades that these folks now reside in. No fun at all.
My suspicions, apart from a true ESP module failure?
1. There may be a hardware or firmware incompatibility that has not been identified between ESP module versions and my vehicles' unit.
2. Somewhere there may be a key instruction missing in their troubleshooting/repair process.
3. There may still be some fault that masquerades as a ESP failure.
I've seen every one of those situations happen in my previous line of work. Damn, I'm glad to be retired!

I forgot to say that the service tech DID manage to get the cruise control back up again after each attempt at replacing the ESP module. That was a small measure of relief.

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Dave2CR

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jun 11, 2019

aquanaut20 said:
May I suggest you obtain a schematic, borrow/rent a scope and run diagnostics on the inputs to the ESP, making particular attention to the 5vdc reference circuits..

.... Philip

I was looking at investing in a Chilton's online manual. Will see if that has schematics. The 5 volt reference is a great suggestion. I've seen that cause a lot of grief across devices over the years and it is frequently overlooked. Anything around 4.7 or less frequently causes issues.
The ESP module is underneath the doggone vehicle but there may well be another point were I can measure that voltage if I cannot access the module.
Thank you.

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Dave2CR

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jun 2, 2020

I never got 'round to posting the final situation, largely because it took so long to get here. Not sure how final this is, either. So, here goes:
It turns out that the 4WD transfer motor failed after about two months, but the shop that had replaced it took the direction of chasing an ESP fault. I'll keep this part short by saying that, as a technical service person my whole life, I understand how that happened and bear them no ill will.
I went to a second Suzuki authorized shop for a second opinion. They diagnosed the failed transfer motor as being completely seized, obtained a warranty replacement (Suzuki was very cooperative) , and installed it. Turns out the control module had died too, possibly burning out the drivers while trying to make the motor move. That was replaced and it took them a while to get the error codes to go away. End of issue... well, not quite.
The car still throws occasional ESP & 4WD errors BUT everything works fine. Cruise control functions, 4WD shifts to 4H & 4L, and anti-lock (ESP) braking works like a charm.
At this point I don't feel like spending money to service phantom errors but, being a techie at heart, they bug me. As a last resort I think I'll invest a few bucks in an OBD tool and see what it tells me. Ok, maybe a Chiltons manual as well if I think it will help.
This 2010 Grand Vitara now has +250,000 kms on it, has never stranded us and, on the whole, has been inexpensive to keep on the road. We'll drive it 'till it can go no further or becomes too expensive to keep going, but either way I can't complain about it.
If I ever figure out the root cause of the errors I'll post it here.
Thanks all.

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