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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Here is my problem...

Stripped down a 91 Samurai with 93 geo tracker engine for paintiing.

Bascially stripped to dash, steering column, pedals and sticks. Put the seat in to drive to paint shop and did same on return trip (about 1 1/2 miles each way). I have had this sami for 9 months and has never failed to start.

They did take off the hood to paint the car and there was a lot of dust when I opened hood after I DROVE this car back to my garage to put back together. I must say I did NOTHING under the hood to prepare this for painting or when putting back together.

After it was completely back together I went to start and it cranked but wouldn't fire. Had someone who knows about engine check some things and the rotor is turning but I am not getting a spark. AGAIN I drove this back from the paint shop (about 1 1/2 miles away) and parked it for 24 hours while I reassembled as the outside parts.

The guy who looked at it says it's probably the ignition module ($300+) or the pickup coil ($150)... neither of which I can have tested (so I need to buy with no chance of return on either).

Two questions.

1) The car is a 91 Samurai with 93 Tracker engine.... the Ignition module looks like it belongs to the 91 Samurai... is that possible and does that mean that the distributor also belongs to the 91 or could it (and should it) belong to the 93 Tracker. How do I tell?

2) Since it started a few times for the painter to move it around his shop... and it started fine for me to drive it home and into my own garage... is it possible that some paint dust warmed up enough somewhere around the distributor (on the way home) to foul something up that I am not seeing (I really would rather spend $300+ on some wheel rims if I don't have to replace a Ignition module).

I hate working under the hood of a car and you'll need to fully explain yourself with any answer as I am not experienced under the hood either.
 

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Most electrical problems are a wire coming loose or a bad ground. Check for 12 volts with a meter at the coil with the ignition on. Unplug and replug all connectors between coil and distributor. Check carefully for all grounds. I just had one of the ignition modules go bad, after towing with the transmission accidentally in reverse. Nothing else was hurt. I bought a whole used distributor and coil for under $70 from EBAY. It looked terrible with salt crust and wouldn't work till I cleaned it good to get a good ground. There is a procedure for testing the igniton module involving an analog voltmeter (who still own one)

I have a question, also related. When I was working on mine, I removed the capacitor (condenser) lead from the coil and can't remember which side it went to. Mine is an 86. The diagrams I have looked at don't show it. Condensers are normally located on the point side but electronic units usually have them built in. This could be a radio interference filter, which would be located on the 12 volt side of the coil. Could someone take a look and see which side it is on (brown or black lead?)

Good Luck
 

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I have a question, also related. When I was working on mine, I removed the capacitor (condenser) lead from the coil and can't remember which side it went to. Mine is an 86. The diagrams I have looked at don't show it. Condensers are normally located on the point side but electronic units usually have them built in. This could be a radio interference filter, which would be located on the 12 volt side of the coil. Could someone take a look and see which side it is on (brown or black lead?)
Night has befallen so I can't go look now but tomorrow I'll go take a picture for you. Mine is an 88 Samurai which should be identical to your 86.

If you don't hear from me in a couple days, remind me.... I'm very ADD :p
 

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Here is my problem...

Stripped down a 91 Samurai with 93 geo tracker engine for paintiing.

Bascially stripped to dash, steering column, pedals and sticks. Put the seat in to drive to paint shop and did same on return trip (about 1 1/2 miles each way). I have had this sami for 9 months and has never failed to start.
This is a COMPLETE and total hunch/guess but have you checked to see if its getting gas? If you painted the entire car its possible that the paint has affected the fuel filter. If you look up under the rear passenger tire you will see the fuel filter there, totally out in the open. If its an old filter and has been plugged up to begin with its possible that the paint affected it and its working and not working based on bouncing around and moving dirt inside.

When you did drive it did the car seem to run ok?
 

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if im not mistaken the coil and ignition stuff on a 91 is different than that of an older sami, due to fuel injection.

good luck man.

i am currently having my own electrical gremlins with coil and igniter module. but i think junk yard parts are the best way to go....at least cheaper.
 

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if im not mistaken the coil and ignition stuff on a 91 is different than that of an older sami, due to fuel injection.

good luck man.

i am currently having my own electrical gremlins with coil and igniter module. but i think junk yard parts are the best way to go....at least cheaper.
Possibly but 86toad said he has an 86 and not a 91. The 86 should be the same as my 88.

OTOH, I'm not totally sure they are that different. Could be different between the tracker engine since I never really saw those but I know that the FI samurai motors were throttle body and literally appeared to have the FI just thrown right in where the carb would (and probably still could) go. I can't confirm or deny this, however :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
follow up with painter

I called the painter today to make sure he didn't try to remove anything around the dash board.... that would cause problems with the ECM.

This car was painted completely inside and out. He did suggest I check the neuytral safety switch and see if it didn't get unplugged when they were pulling the tape off the pedals after painting.

Two things here... (1) it started fine to drive this home. and (2) I assume the neutral safety switch would stop the starter from turning... not the engine from firing (he seemed to think otherwise).

I am at work right now so I can't check this. But I also realized that I put a "Clickety Starter" fix on my suzuki that delivers power from my battery right to the starter recently (before I started working on the body work).

QUESTION: does the nuetral safety switch stop the starter or the firing of the coil? or both? Could the Clickety Starter thing be allowing the engine to crank and nuetral safety switch stopping the firing of the engine?

This doesn't sound right... but I am hopeful. I am assuming my paint guy knows a little more than me.
 

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QUESTION: does the nuetral safety switch stop the starter or the firing of the coil? or both? Could the Clickety Starter thing be allowing the engine to crank and nuetral safety switch stopping the firing of the engine?
I went out to see what mine did and found out the hard way that there is no such thing on an 88 (or at least on MY 88).... I turned the key while in gear and foot off the clutch and I moved :rolleyes:
 

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Night has befallen so I can't go look now but tomorrow I'll go take a picture for you. Mine is an 88 Samurai which should be identical to your 86.

If you don't hear from me in a couple days, remind me.... I'm very ADD :p
Does this help you out? Looks like the brown wire is on the top or right side (or left, I guess, depending on how you look at it)
 

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Possibly but 86toad said he has an 86 and not a 91. The 86 should be the same as my 88.
but if you refer to kylekoehler (original poster) sami, is a 91, and the ignition/coil configuration (for lack of better term) are different. i do know this because my 90 is different from the carb'd sami.

and i am pretty certain - 90% sure that both the 8 & 16 valve trackkick engines use a different coil/ignition system than the FI sami. i have been junk yard digging for ignition parts and they dont all match up.

mule
 

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did you disconnect and refit any earth connectors or screws/bolts? i suspect it is just something small that you might have just over looked. check the eart points with an ohm meter/end of wire terminal to earth point away from where it is attached to. good luck rember most things that stop cars as small little [email protected]&*s.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
checked things again last night...

Checked things again last night (before pulling off parts for testing).

Not getting a spark OUTof the ignition coil.

I am getting something going INTOthe ignition coil... but not sure if the two wires going in are giving me the right thing. Both look constant but I think the meter I am using is not picking up the pulse on the one.

My coil is NOTthe cone topped can like show in the post above.

I am sending my Ignition Module, ECM and Ignition Coil in for testing at Hawke Strictly Suzuki. I am hoping he finds something. Seems like a good guy over the phone.

Being that this Samurai had a 91 1.3 liter and now has 93 tracker engine there are a lot of wires that are not connected to things. Most I have looked over in the last 9 months and recognize as ones that shouldn't be connected to anything.

The suggestion about fuel filters and neutral switch were good but are a non-issue since there is no spark coming out of the coil.

Only thing I am not testing is the pickup coil inside the distributor. I am assuming (and possibly wrong) that since the ignition coil is not sending out a spark... I should go back to something before the distributor. Does that sound right???
 

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sounds like the problem that i have (seeing that it isnt resolved yet). and it wasnt the coil....well let me restate, according to the wiring diagram below the coil is a "igniter" . and the igniter is bad. well auto zone knows nothing of said igniter






if you cant read captions - red is coil. light blue is igniter located below/underneath coil.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Autozone has that part listed as Part Number JA1111 which it calls the Control Module-Ignition. It is $279.99 and comes with a life time warranty.

NAPA has same part and when I called they gave me a price of $449!!!! I don't know if that included a lifetime warranty but I hope for that they come out and put me around in my car if it fails to start!!!!!

I have sent the Ignition Control Module (Ignitor as you call it)... the Ignition Coil (in red) and the ECM board from under the dash out to Hawk Strictly Suzuki for testing.

Anyone ever deal with them before. They seem to know what they are talking about.

Only other thing I have not checked was the Pickup Coil inside the distributor. But since I wasn't getting spark out of Ignition Coil... I assumed that problem was BEFORE the distributor.

Thanks for the picture and hope the JA1111 helps fix your problem. At this point I am resigned to the fact that this fix is going to cost me $$$$$ if it's the ECM ($300) OR the Ignition Module ($279) or the Coil ($108) or the Pickup Coil ($179).
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for the update

Your link made me feel better... it looks like you have a mess there.

It urks me too that I can buy a set of Eagle Alloy wheels for my car for $329 but Napa want $449 for the little ignition module that sits behind the coil. That makes gas for $4/gallons sound like a deal.

NAPA and Autozone listen up... Screwing your customers doesn't make me want to buy small $19.95 items at your stores.

I am putting my trust in Hawk Strictly Suzuki right now. I just sent them (according to NAPA prices) about $1000.00 worth of electronic components off my Suzuki.

If I get this car working I will post some pictures of one cherry samurai. Right now it's just a pig with lipstick one until it is running again.
 

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I have the feeling that the ignition module in the distributor will test bad. I have found that they rarely fail, unless the key is left on without the engine running. If that happens they appear to have a 33% chance of failure depending on the position of the reluctor. I have had 2 failures, both times with the key left accidentally on for a period of time. I am taking one apart right now to hope to find the cause of the failure, but am not optomistic about possible repair.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
sounds like you might be on to something....

The failure of the ignition module sounds very interesting.

Mainly because I think I might have done that when putting the car back together.

You are the second person to suggest that (about the ignition being left on).

I sent off everything but that to be tested (crud!). I sent the ECM. The ignition control module (behind the coil) and the actual coil.

Now I am anxious to hear what they say. Autozone has the internal ignition module for $179 and at this point if that is it I will be thankful I am not forking out a lot more than that.

Thanks for your input.
 
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