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Discussion Starter #1
I'm still struggling through my first rebuild - one problem after another. I finally am at the point now where I am trying to start it up and it won't start - I had my dad in the driver seat while I was in front. It would just keep trying to start but never turn over. Couldn't figure out what was going on until I got into the driver seat and realized it was trying to start as soon as the key was turned into the first position where normally just the radio & other elec devices would come on. I've checked and double check starter and ignition wiring - I think it's right? - but can't catch the issue. What would cause this?
 

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The only thing that will cause it is an electrical problem, either incorrect wiring or defective wiring (a short circuit between the accessory & start circuits - please note that short circuit could be in the ignition switch itself.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I may need to replace the ignition switch, I noticed a couple times when priming the oil pump that nothing at all happened when turning the key. Im going to recheck all my starter wiring then probably replace the ignition.
 

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Do you have a test meter? They are as inexpensive as $5 at the nearest Harbor Freight, and that $5 is going to be less than the cost of the ignition switch which may, or may not, be the cause of your problem.

Why not make a small investment in tools instead of throwing parts at the problem?

Also re-reading your original post - there seems to be a misunderstanding or possible misuse of terminology - you say the car would just keep trying to start but never turn over - what do you define as "trying to start" & "turn over"?

To most of us, turn over is the same as crank, you turn the key to the start position and the starter motor cranks the engine which turns over and hopefully fires and starts - when discussing an engine, to turn over is to crank, which is essentially the same as try to start - although the engine doesn't try to start, you try to start the engine.

The car should not crank/turn over/try to start unless the key is turned to the start position.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Im all about buying new tools, so that sounds great. But when you say test meter, do you mean a multimeter or what? Im not sure how to look for a short with a meter on the ignition.

Sorry for the lack of clarity that post was a bit confusing.

The engine cranks when the key in the accessory position. It never turns over and runs though.
 

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When I say a test meter, I mean what used to be known as a VOM or Volt Ohm Meter, and in today's digital world is now called a DMM or Digital Multi Meter - they can measure AC Volts, DC Volts, Ohms & in some cases Amperes.

You're going to need to find someone to help you understand basic electricity - a short, or to give it it's full name, a short circuit, is when two wires make an electrical connection when they shouldn't, and it's normally found with an ohm meter or a test meter on a resistance scale.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm familiar working with elec, primarily residential though. I have used a multimeter before as well, just not sure how I would test to see if there is a short in the ignition switch?
 

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This shows what is correct for each position.
If the wire colours are not correct let me know what you have as they vary a little depending on where built and which country made for.

 

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There are two significant differences between auto & residential electrics - the first is that residential is AC & auto is DC, and the second is that auto uses a common return.

Think of your residential wiring, you have a live & a neutral, in auto wiring, you have a positive & a negative, and the chassis is used for all the negative circuits, rather than running individual wires.

Do you know how to check for continuity? Checking for a short circuit is the same principle - a short circuit is continuity where there should be none.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'm going to pick up a multimeter and check for a short this week, I've been needing to get one for various projects anyway. I've used one a few times before, but not to check for shorts in a vehicle. I'm a mechanical engineer, not elec, so I did my best to stay away from elec after circuits 1 :D. I'm just a little unsure how I will test the ignition wiring specifically for a short in the ignition. From the wiring diagram above it looks like in the ACC position the Blue wire should be not be hot?

Thanks again for all the help!
 

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You can't tell from that diagram which wires should be "hot" - only which should have continuity with which...

Using the White-with-Yellow (W/Y) as a reference ...

In the OFF position, with the key out, there should be NO continuity.
In the ACC position, only the Blue (Bl) wire should have continuity
In the ON position, the Blue (Bl) & Black-with-Blue (B/Bl) wires should have continuity
In the START position, the Black-with-Blue (B/Bl) & Black-with-Red (B/R) wires should have continuity.

The Black (B) & Black-with-Green (B/G) wires are a separate circuit and should have continuity any time the key is in the switch.

Disconnect the ignition switch from the wiring harness (there's usually a plug/socket arrangement), set the test meter for continuity, connect one lead from the test meter to the White-with-Yellow (W/Y) wire and probe the remaining wires one by one - repeat this with the test meter connected to each wire in turn - do not be surprised if there is continuity between the Blue (BL) wire and the Black-with-Red (B/R) wires, as that is where the short circuit would be, if it is in the switch.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Fordem, you are a great man. I'm hoping to work in some Samuari time this afternoon around all the family time - it's Thanksgiving up here. I will keep you guys posted on what I find. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
So I picked up a multimeter today and got back to work for a bit. When I first began to get the ignition switch out, 2 of the wires had become stuck together, and in pulling them apart, one of them was corroded so badly that it broke the solder from the ignition. I soldered it back on and tested things as you specified above.

However, from the harness to the ignition, none of the wire colors matched the wiring diagram/your description. Luckily, on the car side of the harness they all did match, so I just used that side of the harness to reference what each wire color would be on the ignition side. Everything seemed to check out alright, which has me confused/demoralized. I was sure to check the Blue & Black w/ Red while in ACC for cont. over and over again hoping for a short. I tried to start it again after this, but once again it the starter tried to start the car while in the ACC position. It still can never turn over and run.

I have checked and double checked the starter wiring - it looks to be good (clicky starter kit installed). Things are a little different with the wiring since last it ran because I changed to a Weber 32/36, but I think I have all of that squared away. Any ideas?

Happy Thanksgiving to all!
 

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A defective switch is only one of the possible causes, a short in the wiring itself is another, and now that you have mentioned there is a "clicky-starter" kit installed, that would be a prime suspect for me - any "non standard" wiring immediately becomes a red flag, and since that one is wired to the starter, I would be thinking it's incorrectly installed.

Let's start with a quick check of the harness - disconnect the battery negative and use the test meter to check for continuity between the Blue (BL) wire and the Black-with-Red (B/R) wire at the harness connector.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ok gotcha. I will say that I had the clicky starter kit installed prior to the rebuild, and the car operated fine. Anyway, just disconnected the negative from the battery and checked for continuity between Blue and black-with-red, and did not have continuity. I went through and checked all of them in the harness while I was at it, and only had continuity between the Blue and Black-with-Blue.
 

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Continuity between the Blue & Black-with-Blue suggests there is a short between the ignition & accessory circuits - which should not cause the crank symptom you describe.
 

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If the switch was in the IGN position you would get continuity between the blue and black/blue.

It's quite normal for the wire colors to not match the loom after the ignition switch connector.
 
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