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CVT Trans lag

36K views 28 replies 10 participants last post by  madboyreadynow 
#1 ·
I'm finding that the CVT on my kizashi is shifting into high gear way too early. Like 5th gear at 20mph and 6th gear by 30mph. It's causing the car to vibrate and lug like a manual trans would do if you put into too high a gear at a low speed.

Does anyone have this problem and or know if their is a TSB or something to fix this?

Thanks!
 
#2 ·
There are a few owners around that have complained about this, including me.

Suzuki Australia describe it as a "characteristic" of the car and basicly "stiff s**t" we can't do anything about it.

Unfortunately they describe the Kizashi in their advertising as an "exceptional luxury sedan" with a "smooth, powerful" engine. Neither statement gels with the actual experience of driving the Kizashi CVT gently. :mad:(The other big complaint is the fuel consumption which is nowhere near the claimed figure!)

It's frustrating when the rest of the car is so good!

All of the reviews I read before buying my Kizashi made no comment about the vibration problem, but I found this one afterwards which seems to describe the problem!

2010 Suzuki Kizashi XL Sedan | GoAuto - Our Opinion

It seems to me that Suzuki have geared the CVT way too high (top is higher on the CVT than the manual) and, as you said, programmed it to change up to early when driven gently. I can only assume this was to try and get better fuel consumption as it definately detracts from the diving experience!

I hope that Suzuki come out with a reprogram of the CVT to improve the situation!
 
#3 ·
The SX4 CVT does it too. It bucks pretty violently sometimes too. CVT is a good idea but POORLY executed by Suzuki in both the Kizashi or SX4. Unfortunately it IS a characterisitc and there are no updates available to fix it.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Oh ok .... I thought it was you that said this

"CentralNJKizashi
Newbie


Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Gallery: 0
CVT Trans lag

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'm finding that the CVT on my kizashi is shifting into high gear way too early. Like 5th gear at 20mph and 6th gear by 30mph. It's causing the car to vibrate and lug like a manual trans would do if you put into too high a gear at a low speed.
Does anyone have this problem and or know if their is a TSB or something to fix this?

Thanks!"





Well your now learning the feel of this type transmission and they all work about the same from a MINI to a Toyata. They are what they are and you'll not find me buying any car with that type of transmission for my daily driver. It doesn't bother my wife so all is good. Oh the CVT tranamission does not have gears like 1st or 6th or any in between.
 
#8 ·
Sorry. I should have chosen my words more carefully. In referring to gears I was referring to the artificial gear ranges the manual mode of the CVT has preprogrammed. I know it's a rubber band type deal. My point is that it's moving into the higher gearing at too low an rpm. Had a Nissan Altima with the cvt that didn't do this at all. CVT's may all operate the same, but they are not all geared the same.
 
#10 ·
Depending which motor the Altima had has an effect too. The Suzuki 2.4L has zero torque in the low rpm band which is why it lugs like that when the transmission gears itself high at low speeds. If the Altima had a the 3.5L or whatever they are now they have a much better power band.

I know all this still doesn't fix the problem. All it would take is a relfash of the TCM...who knows maybe the issue is being looked into?
 
#9 · (Edited)
Still the Altima feels like it has a sluggish CVT transmision in it, and it does. By far the most hideous CVT type trans is in the Mini Cooper .. They are only hideous when they are not broken. They are great when they are in the Mini service dept because now you have a reason not to drive the thing.
 
#12 ·
Driving an automatic transmission is bad enough then driving any type of CVT or what ever name one pins on it makes it just plain nasty. That said I'm only speaking for myself. My wife loves her Kiza and has nothing bad to say about the trans. If I bought a Kiza for myself the fix would be a manual....
 
#14 ·
We've had our Kizashi for a month now and done 1000km. I am getting used to the CVT and don't mind it now. Using the throttle can balance the acceleration nicely, and I found that moderating the throttle under hard acceleration gave as good a performance as using the paddle shifters or tip-tronic.

Mine pulls the high gearing from only 1200rpm on level ground and while it does sound too low, I think it's more sound and feel rather than actual performance.

I'm getting mid to high nine's around town but did achieve 6.6l/100km on the freeway. The 7.9 figure is supposed to be an average of urban and rural driving and with more open road driving I think it is achievable. I'll find out when I get to take it on its first long trip. I do drive with the climate air on all the time though and of course that will affect economy some.
 
#15 ·
Kizashi 2012 CVT Transmission

I just purchased a 2012 Kizashi and didn’t really notice anything on my test drive. After buying the car and using it in my every day driving to work and home. I find that whenever I drive in automatic the car drives smooth up to 20 MPH but between 20MPH and 35MPH it struggles to pick up speed and the engine get very loud. Almost like if you're driving in manual and you forget to shift while going faster. I have taken it to the dealer and they say it’s fine. A CVT engine should be a smooth gradual transition while moving at faster speeds. It should not even be noticeable that the engine is picking up speed. The engine should be almost quiet and smooth. My car at 20MPH begins to slow and shake a little and it’s really bad when trying to go up hills. It’s obvious something needs to be reprogrammed but Suzuki wants to keep with the line “it’s a CVT engine”. I did not pay $20k for a car to drive like an $8k car. In no way is this normal.
I am going to keep calling and calling until someone admits the issue and does something about it. If you are having the same issues join me in adding the pressure. I’ll take this all the way to Japan if I have to. Here is some helpful contact information.

HEADQUARTERS
American Suzuki Motor Corp. (ASMC)
3251 E. Imperial Highway
Brea, CA 92821
(714) 996-7040
CORPORATE OFFICE
Suzuki Motor Corporation (SMC)
300 Takatsuka-Cho
Minami-Ku, Hamamatsu, Japan 432-8611

LEADERSHIP
• Takashi Iwatsuki, Chairman
• Koichi Kato, Chief Financial Officer
• Hisashi Takayanagi, Director, Legal

Automotive Operations:
• Seiichi Maruyama, President
• Christopher White, Director, Sales and Marketing
• Steve Younan, Director, Marketing and Product Planning
• Lee Raines, Director, Service and Quality
• Jeff Holland, Director Public Relations and Social Media
 
#16 ·
2012 Kizashi CVT Transmission issues

I am new to Suzuki and very concerned that after calling Suzuki Corp and my local dealer that I had to research to find recalls with my new 2012 Kizashi. That troubles me. I made a post of the CVT transmission not running smoothly in automatic. At 20 to 35 MPH the engine stalls and seems to shift down causing the engine to struggle to pick up normal speed. This is a transmission issue. After researching this I was able to find this web site.

http://www.iseecars.com/car-problems/suzuki-problems

Which lead me to National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) 888-327-4236
They listed a Technical Service Bulletin 2011/10/11 NHTSA #: 10042157 Service Bulletin #: SC-57-R-1. If you call Suzuki their recall # CSP-10B20. The recall is POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:CONTROL MODULE (TCM, PCM): SUZUKI: ON CERTAIN MY 2012 VEHICLES (SX4/KIZASHI) EQUIPPED WITH CONTINUOUSLY VARIABLE TRANSMISSION (CVT), A VOLUNTARY EMISSION CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN CONDUCTED FROM MANUFACTURER.
I called the dealer and they insist they have never heard of this issue and for all they know the car is running just fine. Well here is the definition of a CVT Transmission is not my understanding of what I have read and come to learn that it’s supposed to help the car pick up speed and accelerate giving a smooth drive. Not my new car.
To find the dealer and the manufacture was reluctant to openly give me this information because it’s related to the transmission and can become costly to them as a new car to replace the full transmission and in some cases the whole engine. There is a defect some place. Once I called the NHTSA and received the recall number. I called Suzuki and they remembered after me calling 4 times about his issue that they issued a recall update to the CVT transmission. They say it’s related to an SQ update to the TCP/PCM. So this recall is to give an update to the transmissions computer system to help give it that smooth ride. I am going to take it in to get this update and hope it fixes this issue. I am not a happy Suzuki customer to find this serious issue was not openly offered as a resolution to me as a customer by mail, email, phone or any form of communication. Not even after I called them to explain my issue. This is not how your auto manufacture should represent us as customers spending over $20k for their car.
 
#17 ·
Hi Madboy, well done!!
It seems that Suzuki's customer service is the same in the US as in Australia, not that hot (I won't be buying another Suzuki).:mad:
I will be very interested to hear the outcome of your "software update" as will many others.
Like you, I didn't notice anything particularly bad on my test drives, but I was driving rather "enthusiastically" and the problem (at least my problem) is only apparent when driving the car gently.
I am sure it is down to programming of the CVT and could be quite easilly fixed. Once again really interested to hear a report back from you.
 
#18 ·
Suzuki Kizashi 2012 SQ CVT Transmission Reprograming

Suzuki Kizashi 2012 SQ CVT Transmission Reprograming
I took the car to the dealer and they test drove it and said everything is working fine as they always say. I had to ask them to the SQ CVT transmission reprogramming. This is an update to the computer software for the transmission issued by Suzuki. So they went back to find there was an update available. I had to force them to do the update. After the update my car now runs normal with no lag or slowness to the engine as it did before. The car feels like a Porsche now. It’s powerful and very quick and fast and the CVT engine is now smooth. It’s like night and day to how the car was driving. I felt like I was driving an $8k car and now it feels like a $50k sports car, Amazing. I am happy now but still bothered my 2012 does not have standard AUX or Bluetooth.
This is your car and a CVT engine should run much better than a regular automatic engine. It should be smooth all the time. If your car is running slow or feels different trust me get the update. I don’t know what update was done because my sound system sounds amazing also. Before it was horrible and now it’s sounds amazing.
 
#20 ·
Kudos to madboy!

My 2012 SX4 has the same RPM change when I least want it!!! Right at 20 mph like some others have said. Then when I press on the gas to compensate, it rev's too high. What an annoyance! Mine doesn't shake when the engine lugs down but its still just not right. :mad:

I just want smooth acceleration without having to play games with the gas pedal to do it. :p

I can only assume that this SQ CVT update (is that what I ask for?) will work for my SX4. If your dealer found the update then it must be available to other dealers as well?
 
#21 ·
SQ CVT transmission reprogramming did not work

I had my SQ CVT transmission reprogramming done on 02/04/12 and the very next day my car went back to what it was doing before. Struggling to pick up speed after 20 MPH. Throughout the week so far the car works off and on but this is defiantly a bad transmission. I also suspect I also have a bad TCM Transmission Control Modual.
I have spent the day on the phone with two Local Dealers one is Suzuki of McKinney. They are really bad. They do not want to really help at all. The other Clay Cooley Suzuki which was very nice and very helpful. I also spoke with Suzuki USA and a Regional Manager is going to meet me at my local dealer to make sure that everything is done correctly.
The bottom line is that to me if the reprogramming didn’t work then it’s obvious the transmission is bad. The transmission is slipping causing it not only to pick up speed but also as I accelerate the car is shaking a little. This is not normal. For all of those who are told this is normal it’s not.
I test drove two cars on the lot on Saturday the day I had my reprogramming and those car drive just fine. There are bad batches of cars out there that need to be attended to. If we do not add the pressure it will not get done. Your issue will get worse causing more damage and more money to fix. They are hoping the warranty runs out and they are no longer liable. Doesn’t matter if the warranty ran out. If Suzuki was aware of this and never recalled they are still liable. We are consumers and we have rights. The right to Sue.
 
#27 ·
I had my SQ CVT transmission reprogramming done on 02/04/12 and the very next day my car went back to what it was doing before. Struggling to pick up speed after 20 MPH. Throughout the week so far the car works off and on but this is defiantly a bad transmission. I also suspect I also have a bad TCM Transmission Control Modual.
I have spent the day on the phone with two Local Dealers one is Suzuki of McKinney. They are really bad. They do not want to really help at all. The other Clay Cooley Suzuki which was very nice and very helpful. I also spoke with Suzuki USA and a Regional Manager is going to meet me at my local dealer to make sure that everything is done correctly.
The bottom line is that to me if the reprogramming didn’t work then it’s obvious the transmission is bad. The transmission is slipping causing it not only to pick up speed but also as I accelerate the car is shaking a little. This is not normal. For all of those who are told this is normal it’s not.
I test drove two cars on the lot on Saturday the day I had my reprogramming and those car drive just fine. There are bad batches of cars out there that need to be attended to. If we do not add the pressure it will not get done. Your issue will get worse causing more damage and more money to fix. They are hoping the warranty runs out and they are no longer liable. Doesn’t matter if the warranty ran out. If Suzuki was aware of this and never recalled they are still liable. We are consumers and we have rights. The right to Sue.

what is the build date on your car?
i have a 2012 sls awd, cvt is smooth depending on how you drive it. in D it goes into the lowest gear starting at 20mph and the engine drones from being run at such low rpms, thats in residential conditions. the bad batches were from the ones built in early 2010, they would lock up in a high gear and not shift down.
the drone sound is very annoying. manual mode is much better, holds the gears in longer, 6th gear is bad when youre on the highway and have to slow down to around 45-55 and have to speed back up you have to downshift to 5.
it depends on how you drive it, its 'tuned' for fuel economy/cvt preservation.
 
#22 ·
CVT's are getting mixed reviews, mostly negative

Thanks for the update. Very sorry to hear your troubles are not over. Mine is just an annoyance rather than an outright defect. I googled "cvt problems" and found that we are not alone. Many are complaining. Some suggest a buyer beware attitude when test driving.

The problem with the test drive is that it feels strange because it is different than the car you currently drive. You expect that to go away only to find out later that it feels strange because it is screwed up!

Keep at it and let us know what happens.

Ken Stinson
 
#23 · (Edited)
Suzuki Kizashi CVT Transmission woes

Thursday 02/09/11 I took my car into the local dealer in McKinney, TX. Who did not want to help? The regional manager of service for the whole state of Texas met me as I dropped off the car. He proceeded to explain that this is an issue that Suzuki is aware of and if the CVT SQ reprogramming is not done by a particular time it could cause transmission issues that will result in a transmission replacement. First time anyone from Suzuki admitted this to me. I knew this time I finally got Suzuki’s attention. I felt comfortable leaving my car for testing to resolve this CVT transmission issue.
I test drove my car with the regional manager. My car drove just fine but I believe it was because in McKinney most streets are no more than 35 MPH. They got me into a rental and kept my car for a full day of testing. They continued to explain that the car is driving normal. They did replace all transmission fluids and a gasket. Today is now Sunday 02/12/11 and after a weekend of driving I am glad to say that my car is now consistently driving much better. The lag seems to be gone. Overall the car no longer has that annoying lag is once had. It’s a little quicker and smoother after hitting 20 MPH. The engine use to be very loud and sounded like a cheap import car. It now feels like the $20k car I was expecting.
WARNING: One thing I have noticed is my gas is going much sooner. I am not sure if there was a tradeoff of whatever they tweaked to have the car to drive smoother but I noticed on my drive home from the dealer. My home is 15 miles away so my gas should not have gone from half a tank to a quarter tank in such short range. Not to mention I drove on the highway which should have saved more gas. I am going to keep an eye on this gas issue. I certainly know how much gas I was using during the week and how far it would get me. I will fill up tomorrow morning and see if my gas is at the same level by the end of the week.
These CVT engines are not what a true CVT engine should be. I am afraid of the issues this may cause down the road. I am happy that I have logged my complaint with two local dealers, Suzuki USA and Suzuki Japan. If anything happens after my warranty runs out and they refuse to correct the issue I will sue and ask others to join me. I am also going to file a complaint with the NHTSA. Please protect yourself and do the same as I have done. I believe we will find down the road that the 2013 and up will address this lag issue and when it is addressed this means that Suzuki was aware of the previous issues. This again should bring a massive worldwide lawsuit against Suzuki for knowingly selling these cars defrauding the public and doing little to nothing to fix or rectify this problem. We have people worldwide with the same issue. Go drive the 2013’s when they come out, and if the CVT lag no longer exist let the law suits rain down on Suzuki. I will be on the lookout for this correction in future models. Hope your reading these blogs Suzuki!!!! You still have time to correct these issues and save yourself from word wide embarrassment and shame.
 
#24 ·
Can't have our cake and eat it too

Minority posted earlier (#11) with the suspicion that Suzuki set up the programming to acheive good gas mileage numbers. Perhaps they are de tuning these tranmissions to meet goverment spec's. on mileage. What a shame, I'd like my SX4 to have smooth lag free acceleration without the bog at 20mph, without a gas penalty. I don't think that is too much to ask. I paid $20k for mine too, and would be happier if it had a normal planetary based trans that BTW, has been largely trouble free and shifting flawlessly for years in millions of cars.

Does anybody know what was the reasoning for switching to the CVT in the first place? Clearly these things aren't working out very well in Suzuki's and others. These cars used to have regular planetary automatics, what happened?

Kind of reminds me of the early P-51 Mustangs, great airframe matched up with an inferior engine. Once fitted with the Rolls Royce Griffon they were unbeatable.

Ken
 
#25 ·
A CVT "DONE RIGHT" will give the best fuel economy and perfomance. This is because the engine can always be at its most efficient or best power RPM. However! I believe the Kizashi "engine" is detuned at low end to protect the transmission plus the CVT has taller gears in the Diff for better economy. Could the bog you are feeling be the torque convertor locking up. I know on mine it actully feels like a shift in a normal transmission (like too big a gap between gears). These Trans' still have a torque convertor for coming off a dead stop.

I really wish I could have got the AWD with the stick.
 
#26 ·
Nobody is doing it right from what I've read.

It very well may be the torque converter grabbing hold and causing the engine RPM to suddenly drop. The abruptness of the lag or bog is what is annoying. Maybe if it were a much more gradual "grab" it wouldn't be so bad. The shuddering, balking, and almost stalling that others report is downright unacceptable. My SX4 engine RPM drops, but the car doesn't shudder or almost stall.

I like the description in the first post of the thread and what Rolape2 said above. It really does feel like somebody shifting a manual tranmission to a higher gear way before the engine has reached the proper RPM to do so. It's exactly like when a student driver is learning to drive a manual trans and misses 2nd and goes right to third. Then instead of correcting, they just leave it there and wait for the car to recover. That is what it feels like.

When it does it you can blip the pedal and it will "downshift" and accelerate better but then the engine revs too high so you let off and it bogs down again as soon as you do.

I can't decide if it is more comforting or disappionting to know other car brands are struggling too.

What a shame, I really like everything else about my SX4.
 
#28 ·
Madboyreadnow

To MADBOYREADNOW...........
It has been a few months since your last post.
Your info has put me on the fence for a Kizashi.
Possibly others that were considering one.
Could you update us with any new deveopements that has taken place with
your plight ?
 
#29 ·
CVT Transmission Lag

I am sorry I have not updated my posting about the transmission lag. I am happy to say after the update to the cars computer everything has been perfect and amazing. The car now drives the way I wanted it to. Before after 20 MPH the car felt as if someone attached a house to the back of the car. I am not sure why that was happening. I was very unhappy in the performance of my car when I drove it home and noticed things that I couldn’t have noticed on a test drive. Since the software update I am happy to have purchased the car and I believe it’s an amazing car. I went from paying $350 a month in gas in a mid-size SUV to $150 in gas per month. This car is great driving on highways. You would feel as if you’re driving a luxury car it’s so smooth. The reason I bought the car is because on a trip I had it has a rental and loved it.

The only drawl back to this car is the poor audio system. I don’t need the boom and banging sound beaming out the car. I just need something that is clear and decent. I have never heard such a bad audio system. I have driven other cheap mid-size car rentals and the audio is perfectly fine, this is the worst I have ever heard in a base audio system. I did not get the Rockford Fosgate audio system but I now have to spend over $700 just to buy a better sound system because my speakers sound like they are popping and will not give a clear quality sound. Other than the crappy audio system the car is great. Oh the other crazy thing is I got a 2012 and there is NO AUX. Very disappointing.
 
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