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crabbing

interested i purchasing but emailed Suzuki to see what their response was. "Technical Dept say not aware of particular issue you describe". They go on to say "it is not unusual for such forums to contain inaccurate and unsubstantiated information".
Very helpful, one would think that Suzuki UK would be interested in what Suzuki owners say, perhaps a email to Suzuki CEO would get a more helpful response
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Suzuki are aware of the issue - my dealer, for one, has been in contact with Suzuki technical after examining the car, and I'm aware of others who have asked their dealer to pursue the issue. I wouldn't expect any manufacturer to own up to an issue - it's not something they generally do. I suspect that Suzuki are deciding on a way forward before responding to the dealers technical query. I'll report back when my dealer has had a response.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
The dealer has now had a response from Suzuki. Suzuki have asked them to replace the two outer CV joints which the dealer has now ordered. Personally I think that they are completely on the wrong track - the issue isn't "knock on lock" which is symptomatic of worn or damaged CV's. The issue only occurs when the tyres are very cold and it's unlikely that several owners would by suffering from CV joint issues. Additionally the symptoms are not those displayed by worn or damaged CV's. I'm debating whether to let the dealer get on with it and waste Suzuki's money and my time or whether to get Suzuki to give me the reasons for reaching their conclusion.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Dealers don't work for free and are not your friend in the end (even if family related).
Not quite sure I understand the point that's been made. I obviously understand that the dealer is recompensed by Suzuki for approved warranty work and my relationship with the dealer is purely on a business basis.

Since my last post - I've spoken to Suzuki technical who are anxious that the CV joints are replaced as a first step. There's something behind this which they're not divulging. I'll therefore go ahead and take things from there. Unfortunately if the weather remains as warm as it's been over the last couple of days - it's going to be difficult substantiating that the issue has / hasn't been resolved.
 

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Not quite sure I understand the point that's been made.
The dealers love "wasting" "the factory's" money, especially when warranty work is mentioned. They will milk the car company for all it's worth and it goes into the pockets of the dealership owner (and wages for their employees).
 

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The dealers love "wasting" "the factory's" money, especially when warranty work is mentioned. They will milk the car company for all it's worth and it goes into the pockets of the dealership owner (and wages for their employees).
not with Suzuki, I only just break even on warranty work, they specify parts and labour charges and time they will pay for any warranty work, if i do it under the time allowed I make money, most times i'm over by about 5-10%
 

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Discussion Starter #28
It's going off topic a little ........however, warranty labour rate is significantly less than the dealers normal rate and parts are free issue with just a small admin charge paid to the dealer. Diagnostic work is a particular bone of contention. There is also a level of authorisation required from the manufacturer before the work can proceed. Warranty work is part of the franchise arrangements and in reality - dealers would prefer to focus on normal retail work.
 

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My wifes car is due in on Wednesday, she was planning on mentioning the issues she (and others) have been experiencing but was going to play a little dumb rather than mention the conversation on this forum. Do you think she would be better placed mentioning the concerns raised by other drivers on here as it would seem like Suzuki are aware of certain issues.

She has already had some work on her suspension last year as Suzuki acknowledge a fault. This has deteriorated again and the car sounds like its going to collapse when it goes over a speed bump even at a snails pace.

She has totally lost confidence in this car
 

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The suspension change was an acknowledged upgrade, supposedly introduced following Autocar's criticisms of the ride.

Whenever I tried to discuss things citing from the Qashqai forum with my Nissan dealer he effectively said "What do they know?" and ignored it...
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Dealers and manufacturers will claim to disregard reports in forums etc on the basis that the information is poorly formed opinion, conjecture etc etc. They will also claim that issues haven't been raised by other owners even though this is patently not the case. It's all in the interest of playing down issues.

Where manufacturers / dealers wont play ball on genuine grievances, there are other avenues such as involving the Motor Ombudsman or County Court action. There have also been instances of Class Action being taken.

It will be interesting to hear the dealers response to the front wheel crabbing issue.
 

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I agree with you that the dealers and manufacturers disregard forums
This is why we need to be more factual and less anecdotal
We need to include dates, names, part numbers, etc., because these add credibility to our valid issues
 

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Discussion Starter #33
My wifes car is due in on Wednesday, she was planning on mentioning the issues she (and others) have been experiencing but was going to play a little dumb rather than mention the conversation on this forum. Do you think she would be better placed mentioning the concerns raised by other drivers on here as it would seem like Suzuki are aware of certain issues.

She has already had some work on her suspension last year as Suzuki acknowledge a fault. This has deteriorated again and the car sounds like its going to collapse when it goes over a speed bump even at a snails pace.

She has totally lost confidence in this car
Any feedback re tyre scrubbing following your visit to the dealer?
 

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I've heard nothing since our car went in for the issue to be looked at. The dealer completed the complimentary safety check while it was in. They said the tyre judder is a known issue but Suzuki have not got a fix for this as yet. The dealer said they will be in touch if/when they know more. Not heard a peep since :rolleyes:

The warmer weather definitely seems to have helped. Also, I checked the tyre pressures and they were all set for a fully loaded car. If anything, they were a little high, but that is assuming the air line was calibrated correctly. I reduced the pressures to the lower level as there is normally only 2 adults and 1 child in the car and haven't really heard or felt the judder since. Can't really be sure if it's the temperature or tyre pressure that's improved things unfortunately
 

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Discussion Starter #35
My Ignis goes in on Thursday to replace CV joints and other changes which haven't as yet been disclosed! Hope the temperature will be sufficiently low to check for improvement.

Lower tyre pressures should be helpful in reducing crabbing but the biggest factor is probably the unseasonably high temperature of late!

Stating the obvious perhaps .........when I took delivery of the car - the tyres were inflated for full load and I subsequently adjusted the pressures for normal load. I kept getting warnings from the TPMS about low tyre pressure until I realised that the TPMS alarm setting also needed changing to correspond to full or normal load.
 

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I'm surprised the difference between full load and normal load makes any difference.

The figures are:

Normal load - 36f/32r

Full load - 36f/38r

So the front tyre pressures are the same...
 

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Can't really be sure if it's the temperature or tyre pressure that's improved things unfortunately
I notice when I over-inflate tyres, the rolling resistance is reduced and for front, the steering becomes lighter and when I'm out in soft sand or mud (bogged) in my real 4WD, I have had to reduce pressures to 10 to get out of the situation.

IDK what tyres the Ignis has, nor the recommended pressures, but perhaps Suzuki reccomended the high pressure to counter-act a known problem????
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I'm surprised the difference between full load and normal load makes any difference.

The figures are:

Normal load - 36f/32r

Full load - 36f/38r

So the front tyre pressures are the same...
Quite correct. The front tyre pressures are the same for fully laden and normal so shouldn't influence crabbing.
 

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thats what I thought, but the temperature and/or lower tyre pressures (i reduced the front very slightly as they were a bit over inflated) has definitely helped.

I get the feeling Suzuki have made the turning circle so good, that any forward or backward movement, at any speed higher than crawling pace, overcomes the tyres and forces them to do a very low speed understeer.

I had a call yesterday to book my car in for it's 2 month check so will ask about it again.
 

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Discussion Starter #40 (Edited)
The Suzuki dealer had the car in on Thursday following their discussion with Suzuki technical department. They changed the CV joints both sides -I can't imagine why! The temperature has dropped over the last couple of days and the tyre crabbing is as bad ever. I'll await Suzuki's response via the dealer.

I buy all the arguments around the good turning circle, tyre pressures etc but at the end of the day, the fact that all is well when the tyres have warmed up, points to a tyre design issue. Other car manufacturers have faced the same issue and Mercedes, for example, solved the problem by replacing the tyres under warranty with all season tyres.

The tyres on my Ignis will require replacing in the not too distant future so I've been looking at what I might fit. The first thing that is apparent is that the tyres fitted are a real oddball size and fit very few other cars (I'm referring to Ignis models fitted with alloy wheels and 16 inch tyres - not the base model with steel wheels and 15 inch tyres). In the premium brand range - the size is only available from Bridgestone (original fitment) and Yokahama. Both brands are ridiculously expensive at over £100 each fitted. There's more choice in mid-range and budget brands but only Falken make an all-season tyre in this size and this is the tyre I'll be fitting when new tyres are needed.

It's very interesting that Bridgestone Ecopia 150 175/60/16 (original equipment on the Ignis) appear on the internet at a very low £30 or so unfitted. For example: https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres/bridgestone/ecopia-ep150/175-60-r16-82h-629472
These are what is known as demo tyres - such tyres have been previously fitted to rims but often have not covered any miles. Given the oddball size - the source of these tyres is most intriguing and begs the question of an Ignis relationship.

Just as a mater of interest, many owners in Japan etc have fitted larger wheels and tyres to their Ignis - the common upgrade being to fit 6J wheels and 205 / 45 / 17 tyres. Some of these wheels look very smart on the Ignis but, no doubt, ride quality and fuel efficiency will be compromised.
 
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