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1996 Suzuki Baleno sedan SY416 + 2000 Nissan Patrol 3.0 LWB
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Discussion Starter #1
Latelly i been experiencing an increase in break fading on my SY416. I had the break fluid replaced a year ago but after checking it is getting greyish in colour/color.
As my garage is somewhat humid and i not use the car often for long periods ... this seems understandable.
The indicated on the cap of the break fluid reservoir states DOT 3. but i am unable to source nearby... Only DOT 4 or DOT3&4.
and From what i been reading DOT 4 is compatible with DOT 3.
I am planning to do the classic one person purge starting at passenger side back wheel etc etc...
is this ok?
i read somewhere that to do this all seals etc must be replaced...REALLY??!!o_Oo_O:mad::mad:
Thanks for your help
 

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I doubt that your problem is related to the brake fluid, but don't let that stop you from replacing it - no, the seals do not need to be replaced. It might be an idea to use something like a turkey baster to remove as much of the old fluid as you can from the reservoir and then refill it before starting to bleed it.
 
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1996 Suzuki Baleno sedan SY416 + 2000 Nissan Patrol 3.0 LWB
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Discussion Starter #4
Thank you for prompt reply.
I will try to remove as much as possible before starting.
A year ago i also had break pads & discs replaced.. Maybe the pads or disks are crap or contaminated... mmmm...
When i do the fluid change i will examine them in detail and do a thorough clean.
thank you again.
 

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99 Tracker, 5 door, 2L, 4x4
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This is what I use for the single hand fluid change
97773

Also check for rear brake adjustment.. and tight sliders on disk calipers
 

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None of the items you mention are likely to result in an increase in brake fade over time, this makes me wonder what symptom you are experiencing that you are attributing to "brake fade" and under what specific circumstances you are experiencing these symptoms.

Brake fade is a reduction in brake effectiveness as they get hot, and to get the brakes hot enough to experience brake fade on a daily driver, in daily driving conditions in, in my opinion, quite rare. Just as an example, if you were to get the brakes hot enough to actually boil the fluid, brake fade would not be the resulting condition - you'll be going from a hard pedal with little braking effect to a pedal on the floor and no brakes at all - if you have never experienced it, take it from me, it's a very scary situation
 

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1996 Suzuki Baleno sedan SY416 + 2000 Nissan Patrol 3.0 LWB
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Discussion Starter #7
I drive often to our country house in the mountain area... passing extreme country roads built around 100 years or so. a few 10% incline signs on the way...
it is over heating breaks n fluid pls believe me, as you might expect i have experienced several times in the past on those roads. a little distraction is enough to loose it!
 

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99 Tracker, 5 door, 2L, 4x4
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Have you tried using a lower gear ? Engine braking..!
 

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I drive often to our country house in the mountain area... passing extreme country roads built around 100 years or so. a few 10% incline signs on the way...
it is over heating breaks n fluid pls believe me, as you might expect i have experienced several times in the past on those roads. a little distraction is enough to loose it!
You've described what is possibly the only condition under which brake fade would be possible in day-to-day usage, and as Philip has pointed out, driving style is a likely contributor to the problem, constantly riding the brakes to slow the vehicle will cause them to over heat and fade, you need to use compression or engine braking or you'll forever be chasing your tail.
 

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1996 Suzuki Baleno sedan SY416 + 2000 Nissan Patrol 3.0 LWB
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Discussion Starter #10
Sorry for the delay... Done & tested
much better now.
if you care to know what kind of driving.
please check EN222 road in portugal... Voted by AVIS has one of the best roads in the world (section of )... you can find many articles and videos online.
I dont really agree but still up there!
There you go ... and my previous 100 km are quite agressive hills (still on the same road)... so is not my bad driving as some of you point to!
Thank you for your help once again
 

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I don't see how a faulty brake master cylinder can produce symptoms similar to brake fade.

Brake fade is a very specific type of failure with very specific symptoms and a very specific cause - the big challenge is going to be whether or not the average driver will discern the differences in the "panic" of the moment. The average driver in an unmodified car is unlikely to experience brake fade in daily driving circumstances - the most likely circumstances are mountain descents and/or towing, and the cure for it is a change in driving style for the first cause and either a brake upgrade or a reduction in tow weight for the second

Brake fade is best described as a gradual loss of brake efficiency as a result of the brake pad/shoes and/or disks/drums becoming overheated - note that word gradual - it takes time for the heat to build up and if you are paying attention you WILL notice that you need to use more & more pedal pressure to slow the vehicle - this increase in pedal pressure requirement is the only symptom - pedal height will not change, if it does, what you are experiencing is not brake fade, but some other type of brake failure.

To the average driver the distinction between brake fade & brake failure is of little relevance, all he/she knows is that the brakes didn't work and they want the problem resolved - for the person who has to effect the repairs, the difference is important - boiling fluid is not a fade, it is a failure - the symptom will be a pedal that goes all the way to the floor without the vehicle slowing in the slightest, loss of vacuum assist is not a fade, it is a failure - the symptom will be a hard high pedal requiring significant effort to slow the car - you can have a gradual loss of vacuum, so that the increase in required effort is gradual, as it will be with brake fade, but, the pedal height will also gradually increase.

A faulty master cylinder will probably have different symptoms depending on what the fault is - fluid leaking past a seal, piston not moving freely, plugged fluid passages - but every one of those conditions is likely to cause a change in pedal height - and that is what will differentiate it from brake fade.
 
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