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Hey ya all! I know this is VERY long, but I wanted to make sure I gave as much detailed info as possible!! Thank you so much for reading, I hope someone can help!

I have purchased a 1986 Suzuki samurai that was in poor condition about 4 months ago. It hadn't been ran for several months, no battery, flat tires, dirty oil, low tranny oil, dirty coolant fluid, etc. I am a stubborn Army wife and like to try to do all my own repairs on anything. Since buying my Sammy, I have it running nicely, new plugs and wires, oil changes, new battery, drained old radiator fluid, filled with new, and some other basic things to get her going. Well since purchasing her, she would overheat periodically. Really only at higher speeds of over 45 or 50 maybe for longer periods. I changed the thermostat and that seemed to take care of it, even though the old one opened up in a pan of hot water (so assuming wasn't really bad). After several months I noticed some very periodic overheating issues again mainly while driving high speeds again with the radio up or lights going, but would go down if I pulled over and turned the radio own, so I figures since I added 2 small amps and subwoofer that the extra amps being pulled from the alternator was just spiking the gauge. So planned on getting the upgraded alternator kit later. So recently I had a few seeping hoses so I replaced them. While replacing I flushed the cooling system with garden hose with the heater valve open to get the heater core in both directions and then the heater by itself, then radiator by itself. The hoses were lined with crud that looked almost like flaky rust, so I tried to get as much removed. After all of that all seemed fine other than a few short spikes when I would crank the radio, so I turned the amps down. Then yesterday I took a ride to go pick up a rear seat which was all interstate 90 miles away. At first all was perfect and then all of a sudden it started rising to the high side of the normal range almost hitting the hot line. So I immediately pulled over, checked under the hood and nothing seemed bad. It did not feel hot, hiss, and still had fluid, so I just topped off the overfill tank a little, let it cool some and got back on the road. Was good for about 10-15 miles and it did it again. So I repeated all of the above and jumped back on the road. At this point it started to rain pretty hard so I had to slow way down. It was running fine. After the rain I sped up and she was running GREAT! Perfect temp, rpms, and cruising nicely at 60-65 for 20-25 miles and then she started overheating again. I pulled over and seen some fluid dripping down. One of the small 5/16" hoses was leaking. So I replaced it and topped off the fluids and took off only to over heat pretty much immediately driving in town. So stopped an it felt a little warmer maybe, but no leaks. The heater running made no difference and almost made it go up, which I assumed maybe was from the fan pulling more amps. No white smoke, oil was clear, coolant wasn't dark or oily, so figured it was the water pump. I did watch it with the cap off, and it was moving but very slow, which I did not realize it was slow until I put a new water pump in and seen it going MUCH faster, but I also had the thermostat out at that point to see if it had gone bad again. After being stuck at autozone 2 hours from home, by myself, downtown changing the pump I started the truck and watched the fluid move swiftly and idled it for several minutes and the temp was fine. I pressed the gas a few times to get any air out, topped it off and replaced the cap and immediately started getting hot. So at this point I assumed my gauge was bad since it never really felt as hot as the gauge indicated and took off for home. I cruised down the interstate with the gauge at the top of the normal riding almost to the first "hot" mark. I had the heater on the floor going and periodically turned it off to see if I felt heat through the firewall, and seemed cool as could be. Nothing smelled, ran fine, so I kept cruising for about 5-10 miles and then all of a sudden the heater air got cold and I smelled antifreeze. I pulled over immediately, and it was steaming out the hood. I was in a very dark off ramp, by myself, pitch black, 3 in the morning so I was too afraid to get out and check under the hood other than stepping out my door and looking under the truck to see fluid pouring out from the overflow area. Called insurance for tow truck and cop came to sit with me and at that point he was curious so popped the hood and it had a little fluid left in the reserve tank, couldn't seen any in the radiator, but squished the hoses and heard fluid movement, but pretty flat. I started it to see if it leaked anywhere instantly and it idled fine, so the cop told me to give it a little gas and when I did, a little puff of white smoke came out of the exhaust twice and then it stopped. So I turned it off, got towed to a hotel, slept a few hours, talked to my brother, dad, and two other mechanically inclined people to see if I needed towed home, or what to do. They all recommended to put fluid in it, run it to check hoses again since I hadn't filled it with fluid that night. Oh and put the thermostat back in, which I had left out. After all that, I found a leak in the top radiator hose. replaced that, filled with fluid, ran it with cap off, heater on, and idled for 15 plus minutes, giving it gas at times, then placed the cap on and continued running it and the temp was perfect. So I packed up, and headed down the road and bam, gauge starts rising. Pulled over and was told to let it cool completely, refill, and leave cap half on and try that. This helped some, and I made it much further with it running right at half and then very slowly climbing, so I pulled over again. I did forget one thing at the hotel before I left: the oil was low and there was a drip out of the manual oil pressure gauge I had installed. The clear line had pulled a little so was loose, had some air in the line so I filled with oil, bled out the air, tightened and was good to go. However I realized that the oil I had put in prior to the overheating early that week was 5w20! Not sure how I grabbed that. Anyways, now that I am racking my brain, I wondered if the thin oil was creating too much friction? The manual said that oil viscosity could cause overheating, so I drained the old (which was filthy and not due for change yet) and put in 80% with 15w 40 and 20% Lucas. refilled coolant and back on the road. Oil pressure went up a little which it had been running a little low, and the temp seemed to hold out longer this time, but still ended up overheating after 10 miles. Again, fluid was coming out of the overfill tank, so I let it cool completely, refilled and left the cap half on and it ran cool at least twice as long. I continued this process until I got home, never letting it get all the way to the hot mark, except briefly once because of location. It still run and sound fine, no white smoke, and seems fine until it over heats. The only other thing I can think of is that shortly before the overheating started the week prior, I had replaced the valve cover with a metro one and the distributor o rings, both of them. I was pretty sure I kept the timing, but it has always idled a little high after warming up at 1300 rpms, but will take my foot and pull back the gas pedal and it lowers it to 950-1000. So timing may have been off prior and/or I messed it up a little. I have disconnected my amps. My high beam indicator light was also flickering at one point. OK, I think that is it! PLease let me know if I should just check the head gasket or if it could be something more simple. I love my Suzuki!
 

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Welcome! :)

Overheating at SPEED is indicative of insufficient heat transfer across the radiator. More times than not, it is due to radiator internal scale / debris build up, excessive use of "Stop Leak" type additives, or debris packed (outer inlet side) radiator fins. In worse case scenarios, this same internal debris build-up can also take place in the engine's coolant passages proper, again hampering heat transfer.

Along those lines and FWIW, acid compound "flushing" is a mixed blessing, being not always successful and occasionally doing more harm than good. Save that thought as a last ditch effort.

Based on your reported issues, I'D replace the radiator and cap. ;)

1986 SUZUKI SAMURAI Radiator

A good cheap starting point, the apparent problem and a top overheating cause (aside from blatant coolant loss / leaks), IMO.

The occasional white smoke has me concerned, but first things first. Additional troubleshooting (if needed) should consist of IR Temp Gun recordings at key coolant system points to best evaluate system operation.

Also, I don't think that the overheating reasoning is attributed to voltage, oil viscosity or coolant leaks (that you seem to have already corrected) in this overall scenario.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Radiator replace question and other??

Thank you so much!!! I will say the radiator looks pretty pitiful! Someone even said that it would be the next part to replace because of the condition. Embarrassingly, I do not know what "fins" are so I will look that up. I guess I could do the temp testing or just go ahead and replace the radiator, because it needs one anyways by the look, or will soon. Is there an upgrade one that you would recommend that is not too expensive? I don't know what I would do without this site!! You all have been such a blessing!!

One more question. When I did the metro valve cover upgrade, from what I had read, I had the right one. It fits perfectly as far as the shape onto the cylinder head (is that what that is called?), but it was a little taller and had two vent holes instead of the one. On my old one the guy I bought it from had the PCV valve unhooked and the hose clamped off and had put a breather filter. So for the new cover I hooked the PCV valve back up after cleaning it and put a breather valve on the other one.

First: Is it right that the new cover is a little taller? Second: did I do the vent holes right?

Thanks again!!! If you all could use any pictures of the engine or parts just to see what its like let me know. The guy had also put an after market cone air intake filter set up.

:)
 

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The valve cover plumbing and height sound proper. The engine requires only one port from which the PCV draws air, and another for replenishment air (the breather). :)

Of the radiators that I linked earlier, the AC Delco is appealing in name brand and price, at only $57 bucks plus shipping. Not for four wheel drive vehicle applications though, if YOU are. You can Google up a 5% off discount code as well. ;) Any of those listed are satisfactory replacements.

I'm only suggesting RockAuto for pricing ideas (but they ARE an outstanding mail order firm) as you can source radiators locally, I'm sure.

By radiator "fins" I am referring to the thin metal (almost foil like) interwoven portions of the radiator, that carry heat away from the tubes filled with coolant.

 

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Oh! And the aftermarket "cone" filter is more of a hindrance than anything, as you are now ingesting hot under-hood air, as opposed to a stock unit that is typically ducted to the cooler FRESH air stream. It's more cool looking than functional, and you get a throaty engine sound when accelerating when using one. :rolleyes:

Cone filters do have the capability to move more air through them, but are only advantageous at levels FAR exceeding what your little engine can muster or use. :D

Additionally, cone filters hamper engine performance in extreme cold climates and if you were an avid off-roader, they offer a direct path for engine water intrusion, such as when stream fording / hitting large puddles. But people use them!
 

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Wow, you are so awesome!! My radiator has several dented in fins, all over! I checked Autozone, Advance, O'Rileys and Napa and have to have the radiator ordered, so I might as well get it from where you are recommending!

So, should I take the air intake back to stock? I have considered that before because the cone just hangs in the corner and I too wondered if it just didn't pull warmer engine air versus cooler air. Is this going to be an expensive and difficult task? I know I am always fussing about "price", but right now I am finishing my Masters and not working and my husband I Army (not the highest paying job). Not complaining for we are happy, love life, and happy to have a job......period, but it does limit how much I can do at once to my Sammy. Unfortunately my transmission went out on my Trailblazer which is my mommy mobile, so have to rely on my Sammy until we find a used tranny. Hence the reason I went on the trip to get the bench seat in the first place, so my boys could ride with me. So now I need to cheaply and quickly fix the Sammy :( I pray that the head gasket or block is not messed up. It only blew that white smoke out those two times right after it first blew most of the antifreeze from the over fill tank all over the engine. After the first two hits on he accelerator there was no more white smoke since then. I do not hear any knocking or pinging.

When I first got the Sammy the radiator fluid was rusty orange and the overfill tank had sludge in the bottom of it and just filthy, filthy, filthy. I had already driven it around some so I probably circulated that nasty stuff. When I drained the fluid the first time and I just opened the plug on the bottom of the radiator, but could not find the other plug in the block (I think that's where they said). When I flushed it recently I just used the water hose. I started by flushing the entire system by hooking the water hose to where the top hose went into the engine area and expelled it from the top radiator where I disconnected it. Then I reversed it. I had the heater open. Then I flushed the heater core both directions, then the radiator by itself both directions. My water does not have crazy pressure, but the water flushed was dirty at first and then clear when done. When I changed the hoses, there was still that build up of some kind of lining in the hose. They did not have an upper hose in stock, and its angles I could not use a straight hose without kinking it, so I tried to clean out the loose debri. So when I change the radiator I will get new hoses.

I cannot thank you enough for all your help!!!
 

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Question about ordering radiator

Not sure if all 86 Samurai's have 4 wheel drive, but mine does have that option, but I never use it and do not plan on 4 wheeling in it. I like just driving my Samurai as I am now getting over 26 mpg and started with 23.5, so am happy about that.

The valve cover plumbing and height sound proper. The engine requires only one port from which the PCV draws air, and another for replenishment air (the breather). :)

Of the radiators that I linked earlier, the AC Delco is appealing in name brand and price, at only $57 bucks plus shipping. Not for four wheel drive vehicle applications though, if YOU are. You can Google up a 5% off discount code as well. ;) Any of those listed are satisfactory replacements.

I'm only suggesting RockAuto for pricing ideas (but they ARE an outstanding mail order firm) as you can source radiators locally, I'm sure.

By radiator "fins" I am referring to the thin metal (almost foil like) interwoven portions of the radiator, that carry heat away from the tubes filled with coolant.

 

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Your cone filter will serve you adequately. IF you had the old one or happen to find a used one for cheap, you could change back to stock. No biggie really, especially in Ga. and for mainly on-pavement transportation use.

Keep us posted on the overheating situation.

Army Wife. Toughest job in the Army.

Max
USN-Ret. ;)
 

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Awesome thank you Mr. Max!! And thank you for your service as well! I love the support military families give each other no matter what the issue!! I will definitely keep you posted. I am getting ready to take the radiator out now and will be ordering the new one!!
Thanks again Max!!
 

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Samurai help in Savanah area

Hey everyone, I am stumped on an overheating issue on my Samurai. If there is anyone in the Savannah, Ga area that specializes in the Samurai please let me know. It is possible that it is in need of a new radiator which whether that is the problem or not, its still in rough shape, but I fear it is something more. Before I order a radiator or spend more $ on things I don't need I really need some insight. I can more details if interested for more specifics or I have posted a detailed synopsis in my previous post. Since that post I did find bare wire from alternator and found out the alternator was bad and replaced it, but still having some issues.
Thanks ya'all!
 

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Still stumped overheating updated

I am an Army wife and try to do all my own repairs, but am stumped and frustrated with this one. I posted a detailed synopsis of my issue a few days ago, but have some added information so I doing shorter version with the added information since then. It has been suggested that I need a new radiator, which I am not discounting, but with the current electrical issues, I wanted to make sure before ordering the radiator. So here is my story:

I purchased a 1986 Suzuki samurai that was in rough shape and have done all my own work and had it running great, but there is an overheating issue that is confusing. It acted like and electrical issue with the temp gauge increasing when I would turn my radio on with the amp or lights. It didn't seem to be actually overheating. Then one day I noticed a few of the old hoses with a little seeping so I changed those and flushed the coolant system because there was a lot of grime and build up. When I done that I didn't notice that I had put in the old thermostat that I had originally replaced shortly after purchase. The next day I went on a 90 mile trip (all interstate) and it started overheating, or the gauge said so. It didn't really feel that hot though, but I pulled over, cooled it down, topped it off a little, and went on my way. It started running fine, but it also started raining and cooled down. Then when it warmed back up it started overheating again. Noticed another hose leaking so I changed it, but still was overheating. It seemed to be building up with pressure. I called a friend and they said to take out the thermostat and see what happens. It still overheated, but I realized I had put the old one in. He suggested probably water pump since there was no white smoke, coolant in oil, oil in coolant. So I changed the water pump which improved the flowing, but still overheated as soon as the cap was on, however I did not put in a thermostat (I now realize that can cause overheating). Running the heater seemed to make it worse too. I ended up stranded on the interstate in the dark by myself and had to call a tow truck and cop. This time it pushed coolant out of the overflow tank. Long story short, I got a hotel, checked the truck the next morning, found another leaking hose (upper, which had a lining of crime that looked like rust), changed it, made it home by driving a few miles at a time being very careful not to let it get hot by leaving the cap half on. Once home I put in the new thermostat, straightened the radiator fins, and it made a huge improvement, but the gauge went up when I turned the lights and fan on, then back down when I turned it off. So I found the wire going to the alternator from the fire wall which is spliced to the battery had bare spots and the wire was corroded. So I took the alternator out too and had it tested and it was bad (the diode), so got a new alternator and replaced bad wire, and it seemed to do the trick, but after a while driving it slowly crept back up. It seems turning the heat on makes it worse. Before it reached too hot, I came home and again it was pushing fluid out of the overfill tank. I still think I have a grounding issue or electrical problem for the wires are in rough shape, but I also think there is a partial block somewhere or most concerning a head gasket leak :( Also, my voltage with lights off and nothing running is a little over 13 and turning on the lights it drops to a little over 12 and if I turn the fan and heater on it drops the amps even more and does not recover. When I had my amps hooked up for my radio it would drop the voltage to 11! So its still unhooked. It also seems I am oozing oil from one of the valve cover bolts closest to the driver and has a build up of black crud running down from there and some into the spark plug well area (not sure actual term). Oil pressure seems to be good. The voltage gauge is an after market and is just wired into the accessory, so not sure if it is correct. I also have and exhaust leak.

If anyone has any ideas I would greatly appreciate it!!!

Thanks,
Ginger
 

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Sadly, this side of the forum is for the Suzuki Sidekick, and not the Samurai - you may want to copy and paste your post into the Samurai link on the left. That being said, it is a good idea to get an IR thermometer (about $10 at Harbor Freight) so you can see exactly what your coolant temp really is - at least on the Sidekicks, the temp gauge on the dash doesn't necessarily indicate engine temp, and works on a wire signal, which, of course, and considering all the hose problems, etc., that you seem to be having, this can be a wiring issue. On the Sidekicks, newer than your car, wiring is becoming an issue, and your temp gauge indicating 'hot' may solely be a wiring/voltage issue. However, you do have issues with pressure, etc. It is important that the radiator cap that you have is the correct pressure for your car. It is also important that coolant can flow through your radiator properly - which you can check with a garden hose. You advise that you had to straighten out your fins - indicating perhaps that the radiator has been banged about a bit, and possibly the coolant pipes inside are damaged or partially blocked. Normally, you can get a radiator core replacement (just the part where the fins and pipes are) rather than having to buy a whole radiator, which might be an option. The heater works off its own little radiator, and in the Sidekick at least, you can easily see the pipes that go through the firewall to bring coolant to the heater - the hoses on them can be removed, and the heater core flushed out (again, just a garden hose on one pipe, which flushes the heater core out through the other.
Frankly, although your gauge may be faulty due to a wiring issue, your increased pressure would indicate that there is some issue with the system. I would make sure the radiator cap is correct (replace it, actually, with a factory spec psi cap), and totally flush out your system to see if there is any 'crud' blocking it. And post on the Samurai link, as well....Good luck! ;)
 

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I've merged your (same / continuing issue) threads into one for continuity and history-to-date information. There is no need for numerous avenues. It only confuses the issue. ;)

Additional ideas from other members are always welcomed and this provides the largest audience and best avenue of correcting problems and at the same time provides a great source for further member search / inquiries in correcting similar issues. For ease of responding / troubleshooting for us all, please choose this (single and preferable) open forum thread or PM, but not both. :)

My thoughts, as relayed in numerous and lengthy PM's to date continues to be...

The radiator (by all reported accounts) still needs changing, IMO. The alternator / voltage issue is (was) a separate problem, although there IS some correlation between alternator LOAD and engine temperature from the standpoint that if you place an electrical load on the alternator (fan, lights, etc) the ENGINE has to work that much harder to provide alternator drive.

On an engine with a compromised cooling system, that increased engine load ADDS to the cooling needs and can place what might be marginal cooling capacity on a good day into an overheat situation.
 

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If there is anyone in the Savannah, Ga area that specializes in the Samurai please let me know
Being an Army dependent in a big Army town, you have access to what most bases provide...an Automotive Hobby Shop. That may be an excellent place for to acquire some troubleshooting expertise from fellow enthusiasts (some of which that are hopefully rather knowledgeable) but more importantly a trained Director / Shop Head willing to help. ;)

And it's FREE (or super cheap)!
 

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Great idea!! I don't know why I never think to use it!! Its always after the fact. Thanks, looks like I will be heading there!

Being an Army dependent in a big Army town, you have access to what most bases provide...an Automotive Hobby Shop. That may be an excellent place for to acquire some troubleshooting expertise from fellow enthusiasts (some of which that are hopefully rather knowledgeable) but more importantly a trained Director / Shop Head willing to help. ;)

And it's FREE (or super cheap)!
 

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Do you have an original clutch fan or an aftermarket electric? The 86 had NO electric fan from the factory.
If an electric fan has been inst. Make sure the thermo switch is activating it. The fan should come on at about 190 deg.

Gotta say, sounds like a head gasket to me.......

The sludge in your cooling system was caused by running water in the cooling system.
You should be running glycol based antifreeze only. The green stufffffff.
 

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I think I am in the right direction and for the most part fixed the main issues, but still have smaller "not so sure maybe" issues. I upgraded all of the wires when I put the alternator in, ran the wires correctly according to diagrams, and found that the block had no ground going to the frame, as well as several wires with bare spots. I got all the new radiator hoses, but not the new radiator yet, but have tediously cleaned it in and out for now until I get the new one. Also since it has an after market cone filter dangling by the front passenger head light it seems to just pull the hot engine air back in. So I would like to put back the factory air filter and intake system. We live on a dirt road, so I am sure that is not good for that cone. In the mean time I ran a hose from the front passenger side of the engine compartment that had the air intake originally (I think) and pointed the opening towards the front so the cool air driving down the road will be sucked up towards the cone filter. I also realized that the electrical wire I had for the amplifier to battery was just a small gauge wire and as I learn all this electrical stuff have been made aware that it needed a larger gauge wire with fuse, which I have done. So now after all of this and adjusting the idle speed and idle up actuator the truck idles much better, and now will idle up briefly a little when lights, radio, or fan is turned on and then goes back down some. That is the idle up actuator doing its job right?

My next battle is tearing into the instrument panel to check the lights, wires, and considering installing an aftermarket temp gauge. I also need a new catalytic converter, exhaust manifold gasket, intake gasket, and most likely a new exhaust manifold too. I am also slowly loosing oil, which still seems to be out of that stupid oil pan that I never could get right. I don't have a torque wrench that low, so have to guess, and it also has a little ooze out of the oil cap. The valve cover seems to even have a very light seep as well, but the rubber gasket I pulled from the junk yard was old, so I probably need to get a new one of those too. It also appears to have a little transmission oil seeping around the drain plug, fill plug, not real sure. It does not drip on the ground but very, very rarely, but can see it on the transmission, yet when I check the fluid level its perfect. I thought originally it was the rear output shaft seal and had ordered one, but have yet to put it in.......just not sure and not sure how hard of a job that would be on my own.

SOrry again for being so long!!! I hope I am doing things right :)

Thanks for checking on me!
Ginger
 

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Clutch fan

Hey, it is the original belt driven fan. I did a compression test and it was 176 almost exact on all 4 cylinders. I have fixed the overheating issue through repairing my radiator, new hoses, and finding that the alternator diode was bad, and the wire to the alternator had several long bare spots. So new alternator, new wires there, also upgraded all the main wires, and found that I had no ground from block to frame, so grounded that and double checked all other grounds. That fixed my temp gauge from spiking up whenever I would turn my lights on or fan on.

I am now working to hook up my 500 watt amplifer which runs just a small 10" sub and would really like to hook up my 300 watt amplifier to 2 6 1/2" front speakers and a set of 6x9 in rear, but am uncertain my 55 amp alternator can handle the load, so am trying the 500 watt amp and sub first, and will go from there. I upgraded the wire from the batter to amp to a 4 gauge with fuse in middle. I have been told to parallel 2 batters to do it or use a deep cycle batter instead of little battery I have or parallel it with what I have, so I need to do more research for all that. THat area is my weakness. All I know is I HAVE to have good sounding music. If I am not listening to it in the house, through my headphones, I am in the truck. I am a drummer, guitarist, and play piano; so good sounding music that I can hear clearly is important to me, but not at the cost of blowing the new alternator, or causing some other issues.

Any ideas or help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks so much!
Ginger

Do you have an original clutch fan or an aftermarket electric? The 86 had NO electric fan from the factory.
If an electric fan has been inst. Make sure the thermo switch is activating it. The fan should come on at about 190 deg.

Gotta say, sounds like a head gasket to me.......

The sludge in your cooling system was caused by running water in the cooling system.
You should be running glycol based antifreeze only. The green stufffffff.
 
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