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98 sidekick, x-90, wires colors that connect to the main ignition switch ?! (also alternator & bracket + startor replacement with rounded headbolt..)

13K views 163 replies 7 participants last post by  2013GV 
#1 ·
Someone has this info.... On my 98 x-90 the hot is the w/y... b/y to the starter.... bleue for accessories, b/w (i think for igition), there's two smaller black wires and also two black and white (on the same pin)..... also a y/b....

I'm not sure sidekick and x-90 have the same set up.....

Thanks....
 
#2 ·
This is for the ignition switch, but frankly, from your post, I’m not sure what you’re inquiring about????

100336
 
#3 ·
Thanks Bex, I've got 8 wires that are attached to the ignition switch on my 98 x-90... I would need to know what they are for.... I cant find a shema with 8 wires.... I've found it on autozone "
Duralast Ignition Switch LS780" .... theres 2 smaller black wires marked with a "L" and the other with a "E"....
 
#5 ·
Personally, I have no idea how the aftermarket Duralast would be wired in, nor what their wired color code means. Autozone sells these ignition switches - while their website does not give any instructions on how you would wire them in upon purchase, presumably they should be able to tell you. I don’t know if anyone else on this forum has that same aftermarket ignition switch....
In the factory set up, the only other wire that is not showing in the diagram above, is the black/yellow wire which is going to the clutch safety/shift switch set up......
 
#6 ·
Sorry Bex, probably I haven't been clear enough...... my actual ignition switch is factory... the exemple from duralast was just as exemple... (its a replacement part).... I've got 8 wires (that's factory in the 98 x-90).... I've made many hours on the net to trying to find it but still didnt... The fact that I'm not home(so no garage) and still in the snow, make it tougher to work on and trace those wires.....

the 2 black/white wires on the same pin are mostly what i'm looking for..... I'll keep searching....
 
#7 · (Edited)
Out of curiosity, I looked through the wiring information I have found for my X90. The only mention of Black/white wires on the ignition I can find is on pg 447 of Rhinomans 95 Vitara manual. It shows the continuity check for an ignition switch and has blk/w on the continuity list but I can't help with what they're for.

update: found some info at Ack'sFAQ 96 manual. Power distribution ( volume2 section8A-10) shows blk/w wire,
 
#8 ·
Acks FAQS shows the standard black/white wire out of the ignition switch. But I cannot find any ignition switch that is factory that has more than 5 wires coming from it, which would lead me to believe that perhaps John’s ignition switch is not factory....????
 
#14 ·
Rhino’s diagram has me thoroughly confused - y/b wire for sliding roof, seat heater, etc.? I tried to look through his FSMn the stickies, but couldn’t find the page that you’ve noted. But I do see that even Rhino (and every other FSM I can see) has the hot to the ignition switch as white/green. Yours is white/yellow??
Anyway, in the Autozone add for this ignition switch it says: Wells offers extensive application information and technical support via its Tech Line at 1-800-558-9770.
Maybe you should call them and ask?? I’d be really curious as to what those wires are for.....???
 
#15 ·
Thanks for the help Bex,... about the Rhino's diagram, I think its partly for Vitara SE416 and x-90 SZ416... (I said I think :)).... I'll make a call to autozone this week, so we'll get the info... Indeed on mine the hot is white/yellow... the b/y is the one that goes to the starter.... As the weather is warming up, I'll take the time to track wires...

So I fixed those wires this pm. So all ectericity is now ok, the starter run, but the engine dont start... The car didn't run since 2-3 months and it was cold here in cda. I'll add something in the fuel tomorrow . the humidity could have degrade gas..... Before being parked, it never had any problem to start.....
 
#16 ·
Hello John952, weather permitting I'll go take a look at mine tomorrow. I think I can get my endoscope up under there. Mine x-90 is a 96 but my understanding is there all pretty much the same. By the way does yours have one of those Suzuki Security Boxes?
hint: Look for a toggle switch/red led on the lower dash just to the left of the steering wheel.
If you feel a screen shot of my switch will help and I forget remind me.
 
#18 ·
Hello John952, weather permitting I'll go take a look at mine tomorrow. I think I can get my endoscope up under there. Mine x-90 is a 96 but my understanding is there all pretty much the same. By the way does yours have one of those Suzuki Security Boxes?
hint: Look for a toggle switch/red led on the lower dash just to the left of the steering wheel.
If you feel a screen shot of my switch will help and I forget remind me.
Hi Bob... I have a little red light flashing.. I was told those alarm system weren't installed by Suzuky itself.... I just have a simple key but I want to install a lock/unlock keys this summer.... I didn't got it when I bought the car. I'll have to check what kind of box and whre's it is located..... so I see a red light but no toggle switch, I'll take another look to see if there's one that would be hided somewhere.... yes a pic wold be useful.... thanks...
 
#17 ·
I know nothing about the Duralast ignition switches, but I have never heard of the hot wire going into the ignition being anything but white/green, which leads me to believe that that there has been some aftermarket installation here. I don’t know if those extra black wires have anything to do with ‘immobilizing’ the ignition, gas cut off or anything similar, and this may be potentially so. At the moment, you are saying that the engine cranks but doesn’t start. Spraying starter fluid into the intake to see if it will start that way, might be interesting, if, indeed, your gas delivery has been immobilized. But this set up is not factory, so we are all learning on this one. It will be interesting to see what the tech guys say.
 
#21 ·
Well, here’s one hint I can give you to working under the dash. Sometimes it’s helpful to take the driver’s seat out, so you can have more room. I’m sorry that I cannot give you better help on this ignition - that guy wasn’t much ‘tech support’...lol. I’ll try to keep looking to see if I can come up with any further info.
 
#24 ·
Yes it could be a good idea to remove the seat... !! No the guy was rather someone like on selling team rather than a technician ! Don't worry Bex, I know you already give a tons of good infos on this site.... I'll work on it to be able to bring as much infos as possible on the x-90......
 
#22 ·
John, here's a link fordem sent me awhile back to the manual for my security device. Its a post way down low like #16 or #18.
 
#23 ·
Also been try to get my endoscope for android working on the latest version of andriod. It aint happening. Charging up some old devices (another new one doesn't work as well) and will try again. I guess I can dig out my old Milwaukee bore-a-scope but it cant capture images (very old scope).
Will do something like take the steering wheel trim apart when this snow passes if need be.
Seems obvious but I missed it once on a Toyota I was unfamiliar with. Red flashing led means your likely not going to start. Toyota immobilizer are tough ecu had to go out to be reprogrammed. I don't believe suzukis are that tough and can be defeated.
In my case I'm not sure since I got this thing blown and never had it running for more than 30 seconds or so since the transplant.
A number of issues the latest is in the middle of new tank, pump, and trying to deal with fuel sensor.
Do you have the X-90 supplement manual? It has X-90 specific wiring diagrams but with my copy it's is almost impossible to read colors.
Good luck. I'll be back as/if my knowledge widens.
 
#26 ·
Also been try to get my endoscope for android working on the latest version of andriod. It aint happening. Charging up some old devices (another new one doesn't work as well) and will try again. I guess I can dig out my old Milwaukee bore-a-scope but it cant capture images (very old scope).
Will do something like take the steering wheel trim apart when this snow passes if need be.
Seems obvious but I missed it once on a Toyota I was unfamiliar with. Red flashing led means your likely not going to start. Toyota immobilizer are tough ecu had to go out to be reprogrammed. I don't believe suzukis are that tough and can be defeated.
In my case I'm not sure since I got this thing blown and never had it running for more than 30 seconds or so since the transplant.
A number of issues the latest is in the middle of new tank, pump, and trying to deal with fuel sensor.
Do you have the X-90 supplement manual? It has X-90 specific wiring diagrams but with my copy it's is almost impossible to read colors.
Good luck. I'll be back as/if my knowledge widens.
Thanks Bob, all infos are really appreciated... and thanks for the link about the remote/alarm. I didn't got any manual when I bought my x-90...
 
#28 ·
Should be the link Darrell sent me a while back. To the X-90 supplement. Large file
Go down to the second to last post #32 I believe.
 
#29 ·
100375
100376

John, the second picture should put to rest the aftermarket ignition switch theory. Or there's a mighty odd coincidence happening here.
Anyhow that aside, everyone is only trying to help I guess. But it would be nice if folks knew what they were speaking about before the made claims with such bravado and certainty.
you can see from the first photo my dash is kind of torn into which will make it easier to trace those wires.
It will be my next project. ... After I finish up installing a new furnace in my RV. Got to go slow on that. But gotta get it back together before I forget how. ....but before I finish installing the tank and pump and sender...
I'm just as curious as to whats going on with these issues.
Gotta, gotta be an old Suzuki factory tech out there somewhere who remembers these things. Rumor has it they were retrofited by nearly all US dealerships.
Sorry if anyone feel offended but let's get real folks and if your answer is only a guess state it as so. Pleeaze oh Pleeaze.
Wish us luck I think we are pretty much alone on this one. Later, Bob
 
#30 · (Edited)
Thanks to you and Darrell for posting that link. I looked EVERYWHERE a year ago with not much success for X90 specific info. Guessing and experience was my only guide
My X90 has a red light by the dash light adjustment but no switch? And no unit by the radio, as I just replaced it
 
#31 ·
Mine was pasted up there somewhere with double side goo or something. Only found it by following that nest of wires now hanging below the passenger foot well. Do you have one of these above your battery. That's the motion sensor for the device.
Light Hood Motor vehicle Electrical wiring Bumper

this where is wires go through the firewall
100380

They are professionally spliced into the harnesses on the other side
 
#33 ·
Just a wild guess based on nothing but whim. But that looks like a "chipped key" deal. Do you know if your key is chipped?
My mr2 had a flashing light like that. I bought it with a rod through the block, dead battery,and key cut on a generic unchiped blank.
The seller claimed the electronic were prefect. And it just went put, put and died.
Only found the rod sticking me in the face when I was tying down to rental trailer i I dragged 140 miles up there and after handing over 22
BenFranks for an as is bill-o-sale. Only found out my key wasn't chipped when I took it to the friendly Toyota service manager. After an engine swap and no start. Started on prime as Toyota immobilizer cuts off the fuel pump. Nice guy that service he told me to find the fleebay guy. Ez key another nice guy. You send him like 240$ and your ecu. 2 day turn around he pays shipping back with 2 keys. Dealership service department marks it up to about 1100$.
Anyhow, if you're supposed to have a chipped key rather than what I have (96 versus 98?) then there should be some type of decoder/chip reader around or near the business end of the ignition switch. Toyota uses a ring around the tumbler housing just behind the dash bezzel.
Chipped keys usually bulky plastic lumpy things on user end.
I'd also checked elsewhere in other forums here for different later model threads to see if anything like a 99 thru 2000 samari used a chipped key.
I'll let you know if I find anything else about the extra terminals.
 
#34 ·
Come to think of it I might have read somewhere that some models have the toggle switch up under the edge of the dash near that light?
Suzuki could have done this cause it was a tad silly to have the defeat switch right next to flashing alarm led?
I could be dreaming here. Literally.
 
#39 ·
Goodness me. Thats a lot of chopped up wires. Do any go to the red light? I'll try to take a closer look to see if I can find orange wires going where. That light in my opinion has to tie into sometype of security system. But I have plenty of practice at jumping to incorrect conclusions. Also looks like possibility someone "bypassed" or tried to defeat the system.
 
#41 ·
Man I thought I had a mess! I thought of trying to remove the harnesses and/or the "dash skin" cover or what ever its called. It might be worth disconnecting those harnesses and pulling them out? So you can see whats going on? Seems like you're going to have to go deep so clean up and sort those poor splices and such. Are you under time pressure on this one? My situation is kind of different than most and I've got nothing but time. I'm half into this for the puzzle factor. Keeps the old grey mush stirring between the ears. Come to think if works for young grey mush as well....
Anyway, a question: can you read the colors on those seemingly hand drawn schematic diagrams in the supplement? I even aquired a new tablet with supposed latest (FHD) screen technology. Helps a little but still a struggle and I'm not sure the color codes are correct anyhow.
I'll try to get more and better pics of what I have soon.
 
#45 ·
Man I thought I had a mess! I thought of trying to remove the harnesses and/or the "dash skin" cover or what ever its called. It might be worth disconnecting those harnesses and pulling them out? So you can see whats going on? Seems like you're going to have to go deep so clean up and sort those poor splices and such. Are you under time pressure on this one? My situation is kind of different than most and I've got nothing but time. I'm half into this for the puzzle factor. Keeps the old grey mush stirring between the ears. Come to think if works for young grey mush as well....
Anyway, a question: can you read the colors on those seemingly hand drawn schematic diagrams in the supplement? I even aquired a new tablet with supposed latest (FHD) screen technology. Helps a little but still a struggle and I'm not sure the color codes are correct anyhow.
I'll try to get more and better pics of what I have soon.
Yes Bob I was a little limited by time... I just wanted to make a temporary fix but I will remove all those harness this summer and replace all that need to be replaced. I want it to be clean... I like to know the utility of each wire, then it become an easy (easier) fix when you got a problem...... A sidekick 2 door and this one are my projects for this summer... ( In addition to beginning a +100 years hold house total restoration..... a busy summer but I like to work on those suzuki....
 
#42 ·
Oh yeah, I like 3M heat shrink butt splices. You need to use the tool ( preferably a good one like the one that comes in a 3M splice kit) correctly. And NAPA, for one, carries old timey but high tech fabric electrical tape much better than that plastic crap. Great for re-wraping harnesses as well....
 
#51 ·
John, you might want to double check your fuel pressure. Mine was fine when I started troubleshooting. Was have ignition issues . Then ignition issues resolved I began have issues like you're report. Seems like I stirred u sludge in the tank. Fuel pressure was down to about 14p. Tank also had pinholes up top! Waiting on a sender unit and we'll see what happens next.
Might get to the wiring sooner than I thought as my new RV furnace does not fit. Waiting for the seller to respond.
 
#55 ·
John, you might want to double check your fuel pressure. Mine was fine when I started troubleshooting. Was have ignition issues . Then ignition issues resolved I began have issues like you're report. Seems like I stirred u sludge in the tank. Fuel pressure was down to about 14p. Tank also had pinholes up top! Waiting on a sender unit and we'll see what happens next.
Might get to the wiring sooner than I thought as my new RV furnace does not fit. Waiting for the seller to respond.
Indeed, in Canada, we have a lot of problems related to rust issues.... I thought about that possible problem today.... there could be dust/rust or whatever that is partly blocking the fuel pump....

Usually on my holder truck (like my 2002 gmc 1500 sierra), I cut a piece in the bed to have an easy acces to the fuel pump.... and it become easy to clean the fuel tank..... I didnt check (not yet) where I would have to cut this hole in the trunk of my x-90, but it makes everything way easier.....
 
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