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3.7 gears anywhere?

272 Views 20 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  turboguzzi
I am doing a TDI swap on my 95 sidekick 4x4. To get my rpm's at the right range I need 3.7 to 4.1 gears at the lowest. Does anyone know where to source these? New gears are fine or used if needed

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You've just run into one of the two reasons I'm not in favour of diesel swaps into Suzukis.

The only way you're getting gears in that range is either having them custom made or swapping axles from another vehicle for which they were available.
In europe vitaras were sold also with 1.9 XUD9 turbo diesel, not hard to find them

plan A - find a way to smuggle the car into USA or a tourist to come over with one and run it with your current plates.... :) will surely be cheaper/simpler than any swap

plan B - get 1.9 TD diffs from a euro car.
In europe vitaras were sold also with 1.9 XUD9 turbo diesel, not hard to find them

plan A - find a way to smuggle the car into USA or a tourist to come over with one and run it with your current plates.... :) will surely be cheaper/simpler than any swap

plan B - get 1.9 TD diffs from a euro car.
I live in the US

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and I wrote that tongue in cheek, see smiley at the end...
Plan C - fit big tires
Plan C - fit big tires
Agreed. I have 31" tires with my 1.6L and I almost never go above 3000 rpms. No need, top speed in 5th is about 3000 rpm (don't want to go faster than about 65 mph anyway). I don't even use 1st gear other than when I am stopped, 2nd has plenty of low speed grunt.
Your signature doesn't say what diesel have you fitted...
What his signature does say is 3" Body lift, 3" susp lift, 3" Engine/Trans Lift and I'm curious about that.

I get the 3" body lift - the body is lifted three inches above the frame by inserting blocks into the body mounts, I get the 3" suspension lift, the suspension is extended, by the use of coils or spacers, but what is a 3" Engine/Trans Lift? Is the engine & transmission lifted three inches above the frame?

What are the advantages of that? I can think of several disadvantages, or maybe challenges that would need to be overcome, but I don't see the advantage.

We need the details, what engine, what transmission, and if you've changed the axles, what axles & gears.
and I wrote that tongue in cheek, see smiley at the end...


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In europe vitaras were sold also with 1.9 XUD9 turbo diesel, not hard to find them

plan A - find a way to smuggle the car into USA or a tourist to come over with one and run it with your current plates.... :) will surely be cheaper/simpler than any swap

plan B - get 1.9 TD diffs from a euro car.
Where would I find the info on what gears the XUD9 sidekick has & if in the range I need where do I find them? I tried Google & all it does is show me US stuff

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but what is a 3" Engine/Trans Lift? Is the engine & transmission lifted three inches above the frame?

What are the advantages of that? I can think of several disadvantages, or maybe challenges that would need to be overcome, but I don't see the advantage.

We need the details, what engine, what transmission, and if you've changed the axles, what axles & gears.
Well I bought the vehicle with the lifts already done. Yes there are 3" blocks on the engine and transmission mounts. One advantage is the shifters don't need extentions. It obviously gives greater driveshaft angles to the diffs but I have not noticed any vibrations from this. Engine/trans and axles are all stock. I am not sure if any of the gearing has been changed but the speedo does read correct with the 31" tires.
Where would I find the info on what gears the XUD9 sidekick has & if in the range I need where do I find them? I tried Google & all it does is show me US stuff
Well, this info is from a spanish forum,

seems like the 1st series diesels used the same ratio as the 3spd auto... 4.30, so these gears you should be able to find also in the USA

the later grand vitara HDI diesels had even longer 3.909 ratio, cant confirm that these will drop into your diffs, but likely yes...

Suzuki Vitara
Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8v. carburación. 5.125:1 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8v. inyección. 5.125:1 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Vitara 1.6 16v. inyección. 4.875:1 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Vitara 1.8 inyección. (*) 5.125:1 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Vitara 2.0 V6 24v 4.625:1 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Vitara 2.0 12v 4.875:1 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Vitara 1.9 D 68 cv 5.125:1 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Vitara 1.9 TD 75 cv 4.875:1 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Vitara 1.9 TDi 90 cv 4.30:1 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Vitara 2.0 TDi 87 cv Mazda 4.30:1 -
Suzuki Vitara 1.9 HDI 90 cv 4.30:1 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Vitara 2.0 HDI 87 cv 4.30:1 1.816 / 1.00


Suzuki Grand Vitara
Suzuki Grand Vitara 1.6 i 96 cv 5.125:1 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Grand Vitara 2.0 i 128 cv 4.875:1 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Grand Vitara 2.5 i V6 144 cv 4.30:1 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki G Vitara 2.0 TD Mazda 87cv 4.30:1 1.861 / 1.00
Suzuki G Vitara 2.0 TD 8v 110cv 4.30:1 1.861 / 1.00
Suzuki G Vitara 2.0 HDI 16v 109cv 3.909:1 1.653 / 1.00
Suzuki G Vitara XL-7 2.0 HDI 109cv 3.909:1 1.653 / 1.00

Suzuki G Vitara XL-7 V6 2.7 173cv 4.30:1 1.816 / 1.00
Suzuki Grand Vitara 2006
Suzuki Grand Vitara 1.6 106 cv 4,625:1 (NO trae reductora)
Suzuki Grand Vitara 2.0 i 140 cv 4,100:1 y Automático: 5,125:1 1,970:1
Suzuki Grand Vitara 1.9 TD 129 cv 4,300:1 1,970:1
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Well I bought the vehicle with the lifts already done. Yes there are 3" blocks on the engine and transmission mounts. One advantage is the shifters don't need extentions. It obviously gives greater driveshaft angles to the diffs but I have not noticed any vibrations from this. Engine/trans and axles are all stock. I am not sure if any of the gearing has been changed but the speedo does read correct with the 31" tires.
Have you ever driven a stock Vitara?

OE tire size is a 205/75R15, which works out to roughly a 27 inch tire, a 31 inch tire is in the vicinity of 13% larger, with that much tire and "Engine/trans & axles all stock", quite frankly, what you're telling us, performance wise, is highly unlikely.

You say you bought the vehicle with the lifts already done, you say the Engine/trans and axles are all stock, and then you go on to say you're not sure if any of the gearing has been changed - well, if the trans and axles are all stock, that means the gearing has not been changed, and we're back to that 13% increase - do you really know what's been done to the vehicle?
Have you ever driven a stock Vitara?

OE tire size is a 205/75R15, which works out to roughly a 27 inch tire, a 31 inch tire is in the vicinity of 13% larger, with that much tire and "Engine/trans & axles all stock", quite frankly, what you're telling us, performance wise, is highly unlikely.

You say you bought the vehicle with the lifts already done, you say the Engine/trans and axles are all stock, and then you go on to say you're not sure if any of the gearing has been changed - well, if the trans and axles are all stock, that means the gearing has not been changed, and we're back to that 13% increase - do you really know what's been done to the vehicle?
First off this thread is not about me, I agreed with some ones comment that going to larger tires would be simpler than swapping gears to 3.7's with their TDI swap.

No never driven a stock Vitara and would not want to own one.

Yeah I am not totally sure what has been done to the gearing if anything, unless the transfer case has had a gear change. The axles are stock (unless you know of gears other than the stock ones that could go in). I don't really care at this point since it drives beautifully the way it is. Now if I lived in a mountainous community it would probably be woefully underpowered and geared.
Transfer case gear changes, on a Vitara, don't affect the high range, at least, assuming it's the gears you're changing rather than the entire case.

Switching to a larger tire IS one way of achieving higher gearing, but it takes quite a bit of work to clear 31's
After researching all this & doing calculations on rpm's & all I decided it would be great for the 3.909 in the diesel GV & XL-7 but considering it would be less than 300 rpm's at 75 mph than the the 5 speed GV 4.3 gears that I am planning on robbing the entire front diff so I can install lockers it just does not seem worth all the hassle so just going with 4.3 gears. That will put me at 2888 rpm's @ 67 mph (my normal cruising speed where I live) and 3228 rpm's @ 75 mph (about as fast as the oversized loads I escort go). The AHU version of the TDI starts to run out of breath about 3500 rpm's which would put me at just over 81 mph & I doubt I will be doing more than that in a lifted rig with as narrow a wheel base as a sidekick.

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I'm not certain that I follow that, but, the mention of "robbing the entire front diff" of a GV "so I can install lockers" does bring up a red flag - presumably the GV being considered is a second gen, as those are the only ones that will easily interchange with a first gen.

There are, as far as I am aware, NO lockers that fit the front differential of a second gen - locking the front of a second gen is usually achieved by swapping in the front differential from a first gen. There's also the issue of the relative fragility of the aluminum front axle housing, they are fairly easy to break with the stock gasoline engine, especially if you're running larger tires, with a diesel I can only imagine the carnage.
I'm not certain that I follow that, but, the mention of "robbing the entire front diff" of a GV "so I can install lockers" does bring up a red flag - presumably the GV being considered is a second gen, as those are the only ones that will easily interchange with a first gen.

There are, as far as I am aware, NO lockers that fit the front differential of a second gen - locking the front of a second gen is usually achieved by swapping in the front differential from a first gen. There's also the issue of the relative fragility of the aluminum front axle housing, they are fairly easy to break with the stock gasoline engine, especially if you're running larger tires, with a diesel I can only imagine the carnage.
From what the tech from Zukkiworld said I can use the entire front diff from a 5 speed GV (which is steel) & will bolt right in. To make the 4wd work I will have to buy a $100 part because they actuate differently. The lockers will of course have to be aftermarket

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From what the tech from Zukkiworld said I can use the entire front diff from a 5 speed GV (which is steel) & will bolt right in.
Yes, I've been told that, I've also been told that the ARB air locker can be bolted directly into the rear axle of my second gen.

Here's what I'm going to tell you - I drive a 5 speed GV, and it doesn't have a steel front diff. Some folk will tell you that it has to be a V6 GV with a 5 speed (my daily drive has the 2.0 four cylinder), and to them I say, there is a V6 GV with a 5 speed parked in my mechanic's back yard, and that also does not have a steel front diff - if you're going to pick up the front diff in person, I suggest you walk with a magnet and make sure it sticks

Moving on to the different actuation - the GV front diff has a pneumatic front freewheel mechanism that is internal to the differential, which the Sidekick doesn't have. To make this work as designed you need the air pump that sits behind the front bumper, this is around USD$400 if new, and the 4WD controller module, some GVs have this module as a separate box (mine does), some have it integrated into the ECM/PCM - just my opinion, but $100, sounds a little unrealistic.

This front freewheel mechanism is a known weak spot in the second gens and second gen owners weld them together or replace the entire differential with one from a first gen - this should not be a problem if you're installing a locker which replaces the differential case.

Aftermarket lockers - as I mentioned earlier, as far as I'm aware, there are NO lockers that fit the front of a second gen, or the rear for that matter.

What you're going to need to do is find a steel front axle assembly, and then mix & match - bolt the ring & pinion from the steel assembly onto your first gen differential carrier (if you're using a lunch box locker) or install the complete locker with the ring & pinion into the steel third member and fit everything up.

Now - let's go to the rear - because I'm sure you know the rear axle gears need to match the front axle gears.

As I mentioned earlier, I was told that the ARB air locker can be bolted directly into the rear axle of my second gen - that did NOT match my experience.

Sitting on my garage floor is the rear differential out of a second gen, a twin to the one I daily drive, the remainder of the axle is at the back of the house. I bought both front & rear axles out of this GV with the plan being to get them setup and then take a weekend and put them under my daily driver. The internal diameter of my "spare" ring gear measures in at 108mm, the external diameter of the ARB RD209 is 118mm, my ring gear is also about 5mm too thick.

Officially the fix for that is to swap, yes, you guessed it, the third member from a first gen into the second gen - this by the way, is not an option going the other way, the upper wishbone on the first gen suspension mounts to the third member, the second gen third member doesn't have the mount, so, again, to get the 4.3 gears in your rear end, you'll need to pull them out of the second gen third and transfer them to yours, and whilst I think that it can be done, I'm not 100% certain - that ring gear thickness could be a stumbling block - in theory, a spacer could be machined to move the ring gear closer to the pinion, but I would suggest you consult a differential specialist on the possibility of bolts shearing, being too short, etc.

In a nutshell, you are venturing into uncharted territory, expect there to be challenges.
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